No it's not a failure. At all. The reason Shopgirl isn't available is because it's a shit movie that won't sell. True Lies and The Abyss are waiting for Cameron, who is a little busy. Just because every title isn't available doesn't mean it's a failure.
Well, that's your opinion, which you might have wanted to say slightly differently. Shopgirl is a great little movie IMO, and I only pointed it out as an example to begin with.
There are tons of abominable movies that don't sell much available on BD, but many good ones have yet to be released.
BTTF is a DNR orgy fro instance, and should be re-released.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobyblue
Not a failure but I find it peculiar I can buy "Gregory's Girl" on Blu-ray but still can't get Tony Scott's "The Fan" or Danny Boyle's "The Beach".
Would love to pick up Steve Martin in "LA Story" as well.
Exactly (even though I don't know those movies, except for The Beach).
I know they can't release all the movies we like on BD, and everybody likes different kinds of movies, but there seems to be no particular logic in the way releases are done sometimes.
No it's not a failure. At all. The reason Shopgirl isn't available is because it's a shit movie that won't sell.
I agree that it won't sell well because it isn't a well known film but I love Shopgirl and think it's one of the most underrated movies of the 00s.
As to the OP, I remember when DVD was as far along as Blu-ray is now there still were a lot of films I wanted, which I only had on VHS. It took 7 years till Lucas decided that DVD had been taken up by enough people for him to release Star Wars. Blu-ray has a lot more competition than previous formats and considering that it's doing very well. There are cinematic obscurities coming out on Blu which I'd never expected to see in HD, looking absolutely amazing. If Blu was a failure, it already wouldn't be around anymore.
Last edited by Todd Tomorrow; 11-08-2014 at 01:42 PM.
First of all, this isn't exactly the most objective forum to discuss this subject. I don't know what replies you are expecting any more than you would if you discussed the benefits of Obamacare on FoxNews.com forums.
Anyway, blu ray isn't as successful compared to DVD as DVD was compared to VHS, but it would be unfair to expect it to be for several reasons:
The rise of streaming.
Both DVDs and blu rays are disc based, whereas compared to the bulky VHS tapes the much smaller DVDs had a very big selling point.
DVD players are everywhere, on all computers, laptops, portable DVD players, DVD players in cars, etc. In short, many places where blu ray players are not.
But I do fear for the 4K discs which will be a niche format within a format that already is niche. Their buyer target will be people like the members of this forum and if you read the comments here, far from everyone will upgrade to 4K.
If Blu-Ray is a failure, it is because of the studios. VHS was expensive until the end of its run when you could buy new movies for $20 or so. DVD was around almost 5 years before it took off. The studios in my opinion killed the home video market with $5 bargain bin DVD movies. It devalued home entertainment. We are a throwaway society in America. We want it cheap and we want it yesterday and we want to forget about it tomorrow. Blu-ray is a niche market for sure. It really is for people that love movies, whether that be horror, film-noir, 80's comedies, 70's disaster movies or whatever garbage they make nowadays. I know a lot of people that have HDTV's and still watch DVD's with motion flow on. They are casual movie fans, they are not going to watch F for Fake, they are going to watch whatever is new and forget about it and never think of it again. When you love something it is hard to understand why someone could not. I'm sure we all feel that way. I love baseball and can't figure out why someone could find it boring.
If you are only considering the sales compared to DVD and the fact in never completely dethroned DVD, then maybe you could say that. But I don't think that works as a fair comparison to make. The Blu-ray format, in my estimation, is a huge success. So many films that were poorly treated on DVD with bad scans, presentations, etc. have had new overhauls, scans, etc. and look better than they ever did before (on home media or otherwise). The quality of releases is not consistent across the board, but that does not mean the format is a 'failure'. Blu-ray presents films on home media with the best quality ever available and so many great films have become all the more thrilling because of it. Just because certain titles aren't available (yet!) we shouldn't talk about the format as if it hasn't been a success. If it hadn't had some realm of success, we wouldn't all be so serious as collectors of the format, and we wouldn't want to discuss Blu-ray releases of our favorite films so much.
Seeing as how we also have labels like Criterion releasing deluxe Blu-ray editions with remastered PQ/AQ and remarkable extras and labels like Twilight Time releasing under-appreciated gems (or films that other studios did not want to release on the format due soely to sales) I think the format has more than proved it's success -- at least for die-hard film buffs.
8 years ago, I pegged Blu-Rays (and HD-DVDs) as a passing fad that would never catch on. I was proven wrong. 8 years ago, I never would have expected Blu-Ray releases for all the movies that are currently out now. There was always a ton of uncertainty about whether some of the most popular titles - LOTR, BTTF, Jurassic Park, Indiana Jones, etc - would come out, and it always felt like a celebration when they did get a release. Once Star Wars was released that was it: Blu-Ray had proven its worth enough, probably a lot faster than DVD did.
My biggest concern 8 years ago was the variety. I'm still a little miffed that The Abyss, True Lies, Death Becomes Her, and certain artsy titles like Ivan the Terrible don't have BD releases. But for every one of those remaining stragglers, I find that my collection is crammed full of other great titles that shouldn't have ever stood a chance. We got at bunch of obscure movies out on Blu-Ray, thanks to dedicated distributors like Kino Lorber, Criterion, Shout!, Scream Factory, Arrow, and as much as we hate them, Twilight Time. TT has even released one movie I know of that was on VHS but never put on DVD: Mindwarp. I saw that one once on TV years ago, thought it sucked, never expected to see it appear anywhere on home video, so it blows my mind to see that make the jump from VHS to BD.
On top of that, look at all the awesome editions that have popped up since Blu-Ray's release. There have been a lot of remastered movies put out - The Terminator, RoboCop, TGTBATU, Blade Runner, all the Alien movies, Baraka, Cannibal Holocaust - on DVD, remastering a movie didn't need to be so meticulous, because standard definition could mask a lot of the subtle noise, print damage, and digital tweaking to make anything look good. Those same masters show their weaknesses on high-def, so it has caused people to go back and redo certain movies, to make them look the best they can.
Even though a bunch of movies have their issues - DNR, EE, weird colors, softness, noise, sound quality, random playback failures - the vast majority of BDs are still great to watch, and such issues probably don't bother the average consumer.
In the end, BD is far from a failure. By comparison, LD has been a niche product for years, and BD outpaced that by miles. HD-DVD was dead after just a couple of years. If BD is considered a failure, it would have died long ago, without movies like Star Wars or Mindwarp seeing the light of day in high-def.
Last edited by Al_The_Strange; 11-08-2014 at 02:11 PM.
All we can do, and "we" meaning us blu-ray.comers is continue to buy our favorite format. I live in Houston and blu-ray sells well here. 2 of the Best Buys around me sell almost all blu-ray and have pretty big sections and selections. Almost no DVDs are carried at either store. I spend money on films every check as I'm sure almost everyone else on here does. There is no doubt in my mind that blu-ray will be with us for many years to come!!
If you are only considering the sales compared to DVD and the fact in never completely dethroned DVD, then maybe you could say that. But I don't think that works as a fair comparison to make. The Blu-ray format, in my estimation, is a huge success. So many films that were poorly treated on DVD with bad scans, presentations, etc. have had new overhauls, scans, etc. and look better than they ever did before (on home media or otherwise).....
[Show spoiler]The quality of releases is not consistent across the board, but that does not mean the format is a 'failure'. Blu-ray presents films on home media with the best quality ever available and so many great films have become all the more thrilling because of it. Just because certain titles aren't available (yet!) we shouldn't talk about the format as if it hasn't been a success. If it hadn't had some realm of success, we wouldn't all be so serious as collectors of the format, and we wouldn't want to discuss Blu-ray releases of our favorite films so much.
Seeing as how we also have labels like Criterion releasing deluxe Blu-ray editions with remastered PQ/AQ and remarkable extras and labels like Twilight Time releasing under-appreciated gems (or films that other studios did not want to release on the format due soely to sales) I think the format has more than proved it's success -- at least for die-hard film buffs.
My thoughts exactly. It is only a "failure" in the sense it didn't completely supplant DVD.
However as far having a huge catalog of movies in gorgeous quality, I'm thrilled with the format. Especially considering people were calling it dead 3 year ago - and then we get 3+ years of really strong catalog and it's still going into the foreseeable future.
While it's disappointing when studios get "lazy" with their releases, and it's disappointing very few produce new extras anymore. I'm glad you don't forget there were many very disappointing DVD releases as well - sometimes failing to offer even basic things like a release with widescreen aspect ratio (let alone the CORRECT widescreen aspect ratio). At the end of the day, despite the total catalog being smaller than DVD, if I were to choose to commit to just 1 format (with no backwards capability) I'll take what is on blu-ray over what is on any other singular format - streaming services, laserdisc, DVD, you name it. Blu-ray wins.
Agreed, but I am glad we can hold on to our DVD's of unreleased titles as well. As far as I'm concerned, there are still plenty of reasons to hold on to DVD's of certain films and series unlikely to hit Blu-ray. But I completely agree that Blu-ray represents the best, bar none.
I think it's a safe bet that Blu Ray is by no means a failure. Considering that new movies are constantly being released on the format on a weekly basis it'll be around for a while. It helps that the prices have gone down a good bit. Heck, WalMart now has a $7.88 bin for Blus. That was nowhere to be seen just a few years ago. And look at all the major film classics that have been given sublime treatments on Blu in recent years. The Wizard of Oz, Gone With the Wind, Ben-Hur, The Ten Commandments, Casablanca, Citizen Kane, The Sound of Music , Marry Poppins, Sleeping Beauty, Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, Beauty and the Beast again, Bambi, Lady and the Tramp, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, E.T., Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Jurassic Park, Miracle on 34th Street, Planet of the Apes, good gracious the list goes on. Shout/Scream Factory has taken it upon themselves it seems to insure that all the most niche horror titles get as exemplary a Blu presentation as they can possibly get. The Fog baby.
Last edited by spiderfan1985; 11-08-2014 at 02:21 PM.
and as much as we hate them, Twilight Time. TT has even released one movie I know of that was on VHS but never put on DVD: Mindwarp. I saw that one once on TV years ago, thought it sucked, never expected to see it appear anywhere on home video, so it blows my mind to see that make the jump from VHS to BD.
Twilight Time has a few blu-rays that were never on home video in the U.S. period.
-The Egyptian had no U.S. DVD (did have VHS)
-Rapture I think had never been released to home video at all (and this is a fantastic film with a great blu-ray).
-Swamp Water had no U.S. DVD (can't find VHS, first U.S. release ever?)
Honestly though, Criterion is probably king of releasing films in the U.S. for the first time. Almost everything that isn't an upgrade from DVD with them, is new to the U.S. market. That being said, most of that extensive list is probably foreign cinema. Not sure how many are domestic. I know off the top of my head they released the silent film set of Lonesome / The Last Performance / Broadway - and that had to be 1st ever release for those.
I think it's a safe bet that Blu Ray is by no means a failure. Considering that new movies are constantly being released on the format on a weekly basis it'll be around for a while. It helps that the prices have gone down a good bit. Heck, WalMart now has a $7.88 bin for Blus. That was nowhere to be seen just a few years ago. And look at all the major film classics that have been given sublime treatments on Blu in recent years. The Wizard of Oz, Gone With the Wind, Ben-Hur, The Ten Commandments, Casablanca, Citizen Kane, The Sound of Music , Marry Poppins, Sleeping Beauty, Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, Beauty and the Beast again, Bambi, Lady and the Tramp, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, E.T., Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Jurassic Park, Miracle on 34th Street, Planet of the Apes, good gracious the list goes on. Shout/Scream Factory has taken it upon themselves it seems to insure that all the most niche horror titles get as exemplary a Blu presentation as they can possibly get. The Fog baby.
The $7.88 bin has been around awhile. The cheap prices are great for consumers, but at the same time that is also what threatens future releases. Catalog doesn't sell in great numbers, and if they can only get $9 or $12 for them, it is a tough sell to studios to produce them.
Fortunately the niche labels have more than picked up the slack, and studios can still pull some marketing gimmicks to at least get some more catalog out there.
When 4K comes around, they will probably test it out again because I think they will want to start with prices of at least $30 or $40 or more with a new format.
as i've said before, i think a major contributing factor to the reason BD didn't take off as quickly as DVD is that one needs to upgrade their entire home theater to really benefit from it. when DVDs came out, all you really needed was a player. sure, some people had decent sound systems then, but a vast majority still used their TV speakers (which back then i think were actually far better than they are today, go figure)...
now, not only does BD have streaming services to contend w/, but anyone who still owns a dinosaur TV w/ no sound system has absolutely no reason to upgrade. sure, by now HDTVs are essentially all that are available on the market, and you'd have to go out of your way to avoid purchasing one, but just walking around my own apartment complex i can see plenty of people still have the large, bulky old-school TVs in their living rooms. for a variety of reasons, people just don't care about the better quality (if they're even able to perceive it).
DVDs were a huge upgrade from VHS in that they were more compact, didn't wear out and didn't need to be rewound after each viewing. aside from us "geeks" here, the upgrade from DVD to BD is far more negligible...
One thing about blu ray is I don't think the transfers studios are doing live up to the format much of the time. Expectations will be higher for 4k and given their track record with 1080p I don't think studios are gonna be up to the challenge.
And I hear that 4k blu ray is gonna be on 100 gb discs. That ain't enough for a resolution 4X that of its predecessor ... and especially when you consider that it's said it will support 4K at 60 hertz. The discs need to be 200gb minimum. If 100gb happens it tells me that quality concessions are being made before the format even gets started.
Last edited by Wickerman1972; 11-08-2014 at 03:16 PM.
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