Oh noes teh sky is falling!

[Clark Kent]

Blu-ray did get caught up in the general malaise that hit Hollywood once they realized the salad days of DVD were over.

When home video revenues didn't rebound with the introduction of a new format, the studios decided to take their ball home and walk away. Which is now why they are so willing to license out much of their back catalog to smaller labels.

[Midnight Rambler]

Originally Posted by Todd Tomorrow

As someone who grew up in pre-home video times, I'll shake my walking stick at all of you and call you a bunch of self-entitled whiners who have no idea how good they've got it when it comes to access to their favourite films at very high quality.

[prozacnation1978]

Dumb thread period

[Bates_Motel]

Originally Posted by Doctor Jack

No it's not a failure. At all. The reason Shopgirl isn't available is because it's a shit movie that won't sell. True Lies and The Abyss are waiting for Cameron, who is a little busy. Just because every title isn't available doesn't mean it's a failure.

Cameron has done his work on True Lies and The Abyss. Fox is the one holding up the releases.

[bruceames]

Failure is a very subjective word and it also depends on which perspective you look at it from. Personally I think the the format has delivered in spades and although I wish the studios had released more deep catalog (especially Warner, which controls treasures from three of the most prestigious studios from the Golden Age), one can't expect everything on the level of DVD. But the quality and performance in general from a technical standpoint has been great.

From the studios standpoint, who have the most to gain or lose, it's difficult to know. Surely going in they had hoped for far more than having Blu-ray sales peak at year seven while still being outsold by its predecessor by a 2:1 margin. Their opinions and subsequent actions, in response to overall consumer interest, are all that really matter.

[Blu MacReady]

I agree there are far to many Catalogue titles not yet released on blu and some that were really popular titles. Phantasm series has a big following, Abyss and True Lies, Jaws 2 and others that would surely sell.
Also agree many popular titles have poor rated releases, Escape from NY I know is thought of as a let down.

Think the problem IMO is there was a massive leap forward from VHS to DVD. The quality for picture and audio, the extras, the size (I'd need another house if all my DVDs and BDs were in VHS boxes!), the sturdiness (yes DVD can scratch but more likely VHS player would chew tape) and then it progressed with things like portable players and its easy to import with a region free player etc.

DVD to blu wasn't the same huge leap IMO. Yes the PQ/AQ is better but with DVD every release was better then its VHS version. Some studios don't care and there are blus which aren't much better then their DVD release.

Also DVD didn't just die away like VHS did. In fact in the few HMVs left in the UK and supermarkets the blu ray section goes smaller rather then the DVD section.

Blu Ray hasn't 'failed' but it hasn't won the format war or taken over or convinced everyone it's better. If DVD set the benchmark on how to improve and remove the previous home movie experience then blu ray hasn't reached that and I can't see it will.

[manunited1]

Na, more and more people are discovering bluray now. I hear people at work all the time like, "man I got a bluray th other day... the only way to watch them movies"

I think a mass majority did not even realize hat their ps3's and xbox ones could play blus. I would meet people two years ago with 1080p hdtvs and ps3's but running on standard av cables.

People were just clueless.

I think as far as the sales themselves go; movies and people buying them is just a niche thing period.

I have collected vhs, dvd, and blus now and my whole life i was always the only dude that i know who bought movies in large numbers.

The average 'big' movie collection for regular people would be about 15-20 titles max in my experience...

The cost of living vs minimum wage and the average pay nowadays just does not leave a lot of room for something as trivial as movie collecting.

I think the industry is exactly where it will be for years to come until physical media is no longer financially viable to the modern economy.

As far as titles being released like AByss, True Lies, whatever Jim Carrey movies you mentioned... They will release them if the numbers show that they will make money... I have met people who graduated film school that have never seen Abyss. I LOVE IT, but do the masses? The same with Fun and Dick and Jane. They would just lose money on that to be real man. It is only on dvd because that is the leading format from that time frame.

[scraptor]

It is not a failure, but it was a major disappointment.

So many major releases took far too long to get to market. Among them: Lawrence of Arabia, many other classics, Star Wars, Indy, many Spielberg flicks, etc etc. TV shows still barely get a proper blu treatment. I saw ads for the West Wing on blu more than six years ago.... They were never released.

The studios and industry had a huge opportunity to use content to draw people into the format, because blus look and sound so spectacular, but they preferred to wait for the format to be adopted before providing the content, and it opened a window for people to stream lesser quality stuff like appletv.

I spent the first three years of blu with only a handful of really great movies to watch, and I was checking this site all the time for releases. That experience means I'll probably wait much longer to adopt 4k, and I'm generally an early adopter.

I really think Oculus VR could completely jump 4k because of how badly/slowly the content was provided for blu.

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by Todd Tomorrow

One classic of British cinema out on Blu and two critically reviled bombs are not. I can't really see a problem there.

And how does Cry Freedom rate then?

[Partyslammer]

The format isn't a failure by any stretch. Understand Blu-ray debuted just before the Great Reccession hit and yet managed to rise above a mere niche video format (such as laserdisc) in the following decade.

Back in the (supposed) twilight of any of the previous home video formats like VHS, Laserdisc and DVD, there were still numerous major classic and cult movies that were missing releases on the respective format and even more releases that suffered from any number of technical issues outside each format's limitations such as lousy film sources, edited cuts, etc.

It *is* frustrating that now after nearly 35 years of the consumer home video industry existing, there's still studios cutting corners with crap transfers, bad revisionist choices and a general lack of respect for scores of catalog titles still languishing in "vaults." But these problems aren't due to the format, it's due to studios run by bean counters cutting corners. The flip side is that there's many cult and truly obscure films that are seeing definitive BD releases right now that would have cost far more 15 years ago as technically inferior laserdisc box sets.

[AnamorphicWidescreen]

Blu-ray isn't a failure at all. I think the format is overall, definitely superior to DVD - and, I like how Blu's have the protective coating, so they aren't as prone to scratches as DVD's.

However, Blu is a niche format that definitely isn't as popular as most of us would like. As I've mentioned before on this board, when I first got my Blu player in late 2012, I was fairly certain Blu's would overtake DVD's in several years. 2 years later, that's not even close to happening...

As far as numerous films/TV series not being available on Blu, I agree this is disappointing. However, a lot of films/TV series still aren't even available on DVD, let alone Blu....

[manunited1]

Originally Posted by Ray Jackson

It's not disc scratches...I take excellent care of my discs.

Player itself is a fairly new Sony...automatic Firmware updates.

I have over 570 titles and have never had a single issue other than a couple of audio code errors that was my ps3's fault.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Bluyoda

Yet, they are pushing for 4K!!!! What a joke!

Why is this is a joke?

New 4K transfers is exactly what is needed and would solve many of your PQ complaints. Little to no processing is done nor needed at the 4K level in terms of DNR and EE. The issue is older transfers done years ago which needed filtering in some cases especially since they were primary done for DVD as film grain as compression was a bad situation with that format. There were other issues too.

A new 4K format will offer improved dynamic range, wider color gamut, better compression in addition to more resolution.

However, these new transfers are likely to appear as 1080p versions as well.

[Bluyoda]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Instead of complaining about what you can't get, why don't you praise what you can get. And while there are some releases that aren't up to complete Blu-ray par, the fact is that for many films, they've never, ever looked better, except perhaps (and sometimes not even then) at their theatrical premiere in the best theaters. For other films, considering the fact that either the original negatives don't exist or it's hard to find a good print, they look as good as they're ever going to look in our lifetimes.

This is not unique to Blu-ray. Far more books are out-of-print than in print. And much music product from defunct labels is unavailable, although more music is available today than ever before. Back in the mid-1970s, the major labels used to slim their inventory and declare the majority of the catalog out of print. It's amazing how slim the catalogs from Columbia, RCA, Warner Bros/Reprise and others were back then.

There have always been issues with the rights and therefore, the consumer availability of films, but rights issues have become more complex than ever. So, yes, some films aren't going to be available. Big deal. It isn't like there aren't already more great films available in great versions than you could ever practically watch in a lifetime.

Yes, we can't currently get "True Lies" on Blu-ray. So what? We can get almost every important film in all of film history and most with amazingly good picture and sound. Look at almost any Criterion release. Citizen Kane. Incredible releases of many classic silents. Baraka, Ben Hur, Blade Runner, Bridge on the River Kwai, Casablanca, The Godfather, The Right Stuff, the Kubrick collection, the Wizard of Oz, Woodstock, etc., etc.,

But having said that, I've been warning (and been berated) for years, because I said that if Blu-ray didn't have a good enough growth curve, studios would lose interest and we'd get fewer releases, restorations, remasterings, special features, special packaging, etc., and that's exactly what happening.

Year to date (through 10/31), Blu-ray in the U.S. is down 2.73% in dollars and 0.31% in units as compared with last year. It has a 31% dollar share of physical media, but only a 21% unit share. (Last year at this time it was 29.2% and 19.3% and was 5.77% ahead in dollars of 2012).

So if Blu-ray has failed, it's not in the quality of its offerings. It's only in the sense that it hasn't been accepted in big enough numbers in the consumer marketplace in spite of the fact that players are now quite affordable and catalog titles are very inexpensive. I never thought we'd see Blu-ray titles of decent movies as low as $7 at this point in its life.

I think we've become incredibly selfish and we have a sense of entitlement. Up until the advent of home video media, the only way you got to see a classic film other than going to a revival house or watching an incredibly cruddy version on TV was if you could afford to rent or buy 16mm prints (which were also usually in terrible condition). Then we got VHS, which we liked, but compared to today was incredibly poor quality and release windows were still very long, so we didn't get to see anything for at least a year after theatrical release. DVD was far better, but especially in the early days, mostly pan-and-scan for widescreen releases and there were few restorations. So IMO, Blu-ray has been absolutely incredible.

If it tapers off or dies, blame the masses who don't care about quality and are willing to watch movies on 3" screens. In fact, one of the things saving physical media is the fact that the web infrastructure in the U.S. is relatively poor and the rip-off companies that control it either charge through the roof for high bandwidth or they throttle your connection. I suppose we should actually be a bit thankful for this because if true high-speed connectivity was both widely available and inexpensive, the end of physical media would come much faster.

Good post, mate.

Much of what I see in the forums here is people complaining about this and that, so it's really refreshing to see the very same people defending the format so vehemently.

I am the OP, and I obviously think BD is awesome, because I have over 500. I wish every film I like was out on BD, and in spectacular quality, which is of course fairly unrealistic.

Originally Posted by Danchez

While I think blu-ray has been a resounding success, I agree the chink it its armor is the lack of Death Becomes Her.

Agreed.

I personally don't even care for The Abyss or True Lies.
They are simply examples, and titles that should be available by now.

I am very grateful to have so many great films in a quality, that frankly most cinemas don't have, let a lone the annoying people there.

I think a big problem is that we are so greedy, that we want everything yesterday, but dirt cheap, yet in perfect quality.
That's never going to happen.

I only had about 40 DVDs, back in the day, and had started collecting in 1999. I quite, because I felt DVD wasn't good enough.

BD is, and when done right, impeccable.

I just watched Blade Runner today. In surround sound for the first time.
WOW! It's not too shabby for a movie from 1982.
Sure, the dialogue could be clearer, but the sound is pretty impressive, and it has surprisingly much activity in the surround channels.
The PQ is pretty sweet too.

[CinemaScope]

No, it's not a failure, or anything like a failure. Yes, there's a ton of films I'd like on Blu that I'm still waiting for, but then there's a ton of films I love that are out on Blu-ray, with more coming every month. And when I look at a good Blu-ray & see that stunning picture. Wow!

I wish more people were buying Blu-rays, but that's the state of physical media these days. The last three years have been fantastic for classic & interesting releases, & next year could be even better.

[HeavyHitter]

It could always be worse. Imagine if every studio was as sh*tty as Paramount and Universal?

[Bluyoda]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

It could always be worse. Imagine if every studio was as sh*tty as Paramount and Universal?

Or Disney, with lossy audio in 2014, and terribly few special features, lack of catalog titles, and DNR heavy Sword in the Stone, the only one I care about.

Too bad, SW is now Disney's property.
This is going to cost us dearly.

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by Race Bannon

If you go to an electronics display, almost every available player is blu-ray.

That most folks are watching DVD's on...just like pretty much everyone has an HDTV at this point simply because of the government-mandated obsolescence of tube TV's, but huge percentages of folks are just watching SD content on it (zoomed in, no less).

Once they see how good their DVDs look via an HDMI connection and upscaled, they are even less interested in Blu-ray, because just replacing their player makes their existing collection look better than ever.

That has been the true Achilles heel of Blu-ray - the only difference between DVD and Blu-ray is image/sound quality. Sound quality doesn't matter to the vast majority of people because comparatively so few folks have equipment to access it. And they are already getting a bump in image quality watching their DVDs for the first time with digital connections (the average person was watching them through standard RCA cables previously, S-Video if they were lucky).

The reason DVD adoption was as quick as it was is because it was a complete format change - all the benefits of a disc vs. analog tape. It wasn't even the image quality (as evidenced by the huge amount of discs that were released as "Full Screen" versions, which often outsold the "Widescreen" versions).

That's why 4K is a non-starter - you will never see it at Wal-mart, places like Best Buy may have a small section, but whatever they do release will be much more expensive than a Blu-ray - they aren't just going to stick 4K Blu-rays out at $20 on release week, anyone who thinks that will happen is dreaming. It's future is Laserdisc at best - a very niche product that requires investment in specific equipment by super-enthusiasts.

[Brad1963]

what the heck is Blu ray?

[Dylan34]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

That most folks are watching DVD's on...just like pretty much everyone has an HDTV at this point simply because of the government-mandated obsolescence of tube TV's, but huge percentages of folks are just watching SD content on it (zoomed in, no less).

Once they see how good their DVDs look via an HDMI connection and upscaled, they are even less interested in Blu-ray, because just replacing their player makes their existing collection look better than ever.

That has been the true Achilles heel of Blu-ray - the only difference between DVD and Blu-ray is image/sound quality. Sound quality doesn't matter to the vast majority of people because comparatively so few folks have equipment to access it. And they are already getting a bump in image quality watching their DVDs for the first time with digital connections (the average person was watching them through standard RCA cables previously, S-Video if they were lucky).

The reason DVD adoption was as quick as it was is because it was a complete format change - all the benefits of a disc vs. analog tape. It wasn't even the image quality (as evidenced by the huge amount of discs that were released as "Full Screen" versions, which often outsold the "Widescreen" versions).

That's why 4K is a non-starter - you will never see it at Wal-mart, places like Best Buy may have a small section, but whatever they do release will be much more expensive than a Blu-ray - they aren't just going to stick 4K Blu-rays out at $20 on release week, anyone who thinks that will happen is dreaming. It's future is Laserdisc at best - a very niche product that requires investment in specific equipment by super-enthusiasts.

Also, the studios are not going to let us have way better quality than a theater without a huge price. I see discs starting between 40 and 50 bucks. At first launch its going to be laserdisc prices all over again.