Oh noes teh sky is falling!

[AnamorphicWidescreen]

Originally Posted by cine74

Movies are a loss leader, which is why you only see the latest blockbusters on DVD. The future of physical media sales belongs to the internet.

Re: the bolded sentence above, truer words were never spoken - at least as far as most Blu's are concerned. I've noticed this especially when it comes to older films on Blu - they are just not usually available @ retail stores. I need to go online to find most of them.

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

An alarming number of people I know personally either can't see, or just don't care about, the difference in quality between DVD and Blu-ray. A recent movie's DVD played in a Blu-ray player looks more than good enough to most people. It isn't just age/eyesight related either; it's flat-out apathy in most cases.

Also very true. IMHO, a lot of this has to do with the size of your TV set. I.e., if you're watching something on a smaller set, you may not be able to see the difference between regular DVD & Blu-ray. Conversely, if you're watching something on a 45"+ set, the difference between the two formats is much more pronounced. Also, the flaws in regular DVD's are also more pronounced on a larger set.

[The Great Owl]

In all fairness...

Blu-rays are obviously better than DVDs in terms of video and audio presentation. That much is clear to me, otherwise I never would have bothered upgrading so many of my own DVDs to Blu-ray.

To my eyes, though, the jump in quality from DVDs to Blu-rays is not even close to the jump in quality from VHS to DVDs. I suspect that most of the population feels the same way.

I'll never forget the first time that I watched a DVD. I was absolutely blown away, and I absolutely had to have my own DVD player as soon as possible. There was a real immediacy to that improvement over VHS that practically grabbed people by the neck and pulled them in.

By contrast, i waited years to after the advent of Blu-ray to jump over to this format, because, although I knew that the picture quality was better, my own experiences watching the movies at friends' houses, while impressive, did not pull me in full-tilt in the same way.

For most of the population, DVDs hit that "sweet spot" when it comes to convenience, picture quality, and presentation. As much as I love Blu-rays, I can perfectly understand that.

When I first started upgrading my DVDs to Blu-rays, I did not say to myself, "I can finally enjoy these movies now." It wasn't like that at all. I was merely replacing a perfectly-good format with a format that has slightly more "oomph" to it in terms of picture and sound.

A lot of my reasoning stems from the fact that I watch movies on a smaller television than most here do, but I can still understand and even agree with the reasoning of those who prefer to stick to DVDs.

[gates70]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

An alarming number of people I know personally either can't see, or just don't care about, the difference in quality between DVD and Blu-ray. A recent movie's DVD played in a Blu-ray player looks more than good enough to most people. It isn't just age/eyesight related either; it's flat-out apathy in most cases.

[gates70]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

In all fairness...

Blu-rays are clearly better than DVDs in terms of video and audio presentation. That much is clear to me, otherwise I never would have bothered upgrading so many of my own DVDs to Blu-ray.

To my eyes, though, the jump in quality from DVDs to Blu-rays is not even close to the jump in quality from VHS to DVDs. I suspect that most of the population feels the same way.

I'll never forget the first time that I watched a DVD. I was absolutely blown away, and I absolutely had to have my own DVD player as soon as possible. There was a real immediacy to that improvement over VHS that practically grabbed people by the neck and pulled them in.

By contrast, i waited years to after the advent of Blu-ray to jump over to this format, because, although I knew that the picture quality was better, my own experiences watching the movies at friends' houses, while impressive, did not pull me in full-tilt in the same way.

For most of the population, DVDs hit that "sweet spot" when it comes to convenience, picture quality, and presentation. As much as I love Blu-rays, I can perfectly understand that.

When I first started upgrading my DVDs to Blu-rays, I did not say to myself, "I can finally enjoy these movies now." It wasn't like that at all. I was merely replacing a perfectly-good format with a format that has slightly more "oomph" to it in terms of picture and sound.

Depends on the size of the screen you're watching on. On my 112", no matter how well a player upscales, DVD still looks like crap.

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by gates70

Depends on the size of the screen you're watching on. On my 112", no matter how well a player upscales, DVD still looks like crap.

Most people have no desire to own a television that large, though. The standard televisions seem to go from 32" to 65", from what I've seen of people's homes and such over the years. I'll be getting a larger television screen in the not-too-distant future, but it probably won't be larger than 50" or 60".

My point in the above post is that DVDs still serve the purpose well for most of the people in the world who are not as hugely enthusiastic about cinema as those of us on this forum are. Even here, some of us, myself included, consider ourselves mere movie fans, as opposed to videophiles or audiophiles. Blu-rays rock out for me, but I don't need an intricate or hugely expensive home theater system to enjoy watching movies.

I'm devoted to physical media, because, like those mentioned in the original post article, I love having a library of cult movies, childhood favorites, and genre films that do not often see the light of day on Netflix or other streaming outlets. When I do stream movies on my computer, though, I still enjoy them, and I do not get hung up on the inferior presentation.

[Dragun]

Originally Posted by cine74

Sales of Blu-ray and DVD titles are perceived to be dying because format wars have done some damage to consumers' confidence. Plus, you tack on chatter about upcoming format "upgrades" like UHD and you have further erosion among enthusiasts, thus more people holding off for the next hot thing. People who still want to own physical copies of their favorite movies are sticking to the one "safe" format in their eyes, which is DVD.

I doubt the average person followed the format wars all that closely. By now it's a distant memory anyways. I think it's the inability to see a difference between Blu-Ray and DVD. Or, if they do see a difference, they don't care about buying a new player, or buying Blu-Rays if they're more expensive than DVDs.

The average person who mostly watches mainstream movies doesn't really need to own physical copies of them. They'll most likely always be available for streaming or download. It's the niche films that are more necessary to collect, since the rights expire to those, they go out of print, smaller companies go out of business, etc.

[Yojimbo68]

I thought this was a really great video essay on the state of physical media.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmZoRjCvOnI

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by Dragun

I doubt the average person followed the format wars all that closely. By now it's a distant memory anyways. I think it's the inability to see a difference between Blu-Ray and DVD. Or, if they do see a difference, they don't care about buying a new player, or buying Blu-Rays if they're more expensive than DVDs.

I doubt it's even that... it's more about convenience. DVD to VHS was ALL about conveneice for the average joe. no rewinding, no multiple tapes (for hte most part), better PQ wasn't really that big of a deal for most people. optical over tape was a big upgrade in terms of usability, and now that we have a NEW optical disc format.. no one cares. That's because a disc is a disc is a disc to most people

[gates70]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

Most people have no desire to own a television that large, though. The standard televisions seem to go from 32" to 65", from what I've seen of people's homes and such over the years. I'll be getting a larger television screen in the not-too-distant future, but it probably won't be larger than 50" or 60".

My point in the above post is that DVDs still serve the purpose well for most of the people in the world who are not as hugely enthusiastic about cinema as those of us on this forum are. Even here, some of us, myself included, consider ourselves mere movie fans, as opposed to videophiles or audiophiles. Blu-rays rock out for me, but I don't need an intricate or hugely expensive home theater system to enjoy watching movies.

I'm devoted to physical media, because, like those mentioned in the original post article, I love having a library of cult movies, childhood favorites, and genre films that do not often see the light of day on Netflix or other streaming outlets. When I do stream movies on my computer, though, I still enjoy them, and I do not get hung up on the inferior presentation.

Oh I agree with you 100%. I don't know anyone personally that has a projector and screen like me outside of the internet. I'm the only "crazy guy" as some put it, willing to spend thousands of $$$ on a setup like this. But they sure do like watching movies at my house though

[rickah88]

Interesting article! Did I read correctly, Matt doesn't even own a computer?
How is that possible? A BD player I can understand, as at least he has some BDs and is looking forward...but no computer??

[AnamorphicWidescreen]

My HD set is 47". To me, this is pretty much the minimum size that you would need to see the difference between DVD & Blu. IMHO, if a set is significantly smaller, the difference between the two formats would be less obvious - that's just me, however.

Most DVD's on my set don't look great, but some are still borderline acceptable. That being said, some newer DVD's do look decent on my set.

When I end up upgrading (hopefully not for several years) to a larger 4K set, I'm sure that most/all regular DVD's will look unwatchable on this screen....This is one of the things that John Q. Public doesn't have a good concept of when it comes to HD. I.e., yes - watching a Blu on an HD set does look great...however, on an HD set the flaws of inferior source material (i.e., many regular DVD's) are more pronounced...whereas they looked decent on smaller or non-HD sets...

[bookcase]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

To my eyes, though, the jump in quality from DVDs to Blu-rays is not even close to the jump in quality from VHS to DVDs. I suspect that most of the population feels the same way.

I personally think people converted to DVD because of convenience. Regardless, I am someone who saw -- and continues to see -- the huge jump in quality from DVD to BD.

I think higher prices are what's keeping people from upgrading to BD. But another is the firmware updates you have to do to your player to get it to play a disc. I was required to do a firmware update the other night so I could watch Psycho Beach Party on my PS3. No one in my family would even know where to begin since they barely know how to turn on a computer.

Still, I think "physical media is dying" is a gross exaggeration. It comes up as often as people freak out that Costco cuts their media section during the summer.

[Lincoln6Echo]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

An alarming number of people I know personally either can't see, or just don't care about, the difference in quality between DVD and Blu-ray. A recent movie's DVD played in a Blu-ray player looks more than good enough to most people. It isn't just age/eyesight related either; it's flat-out apathy in most cases.

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

Bingo. Unfortunately, this applies to probably 80+% of the western world population

Again, BINGO...my aunt and uncle's family is exactly like this. First of all, they've been a home video collector at all. In fact, they don't even buy that many video games. They've always been the Renter type. But there are a few films that they like to have on physical media, and that's the James Bond films. Years ago, they got a DVD burner (common on most PCs nowa these days) and one of the things they did first was to burn copies of the Bond film from VHS copies to DVD. They were actually too cheap to go buy the restored DVD sets that came out before the BD format came out. And no, this isn't a poor family...they're both retired teachers, live in a nice "country club" neighborhood, and my uncle lives on the Golf Course, if you know what I mean. And here's the main point here...they didn't and have never cared about the PQ and AQ presentation of the films they watch. It is total apathy. The TVs they have had over the years, including their first HDTV have had some of the worst PQ I have ever seen. I don't know if their eyes are just that bad, or they have no idea how to adjust their TVs setting for best PQ. Their son, my cousin, is also like this when it comes to PQ...he has told me himself that it's more to do with the actual story than PQ than anything else, but he would come over to my place to watch BD movies whenever I had a big new release. The bastard is back in jail now (long story), But I don't know how many times I offered to give him my Clone Wars BD sets of Season 1-4 if he would just buy himself a PS3 to play them on...Oh, I should mention, that he was still using a PS2.

[spawningblue]

Originally Posted by rickah88

Interesting article! Did I read correctly, Matt doesn't even own a computer?
How is that possible? A BD player I can understand, as at least he has some BDs and is looking forward...but no computer??

I have a computer, but it's more than 10 years old and is pretty much a useless brick now as no programs are compatible with it anymore. Mind you I spend most of my day on a computer at work, so the last thing I want to do is go home and sit on one. Plus I have an iPhone for all my Internet needs.

[AnamorphicWidescreen]

Originally Posted by Lincoln6Echo

Again, BINGO...my aunt and uncle's family is exactly like this. First of all, they've been a home video collector at all. In fact, they don't even buy that many video games. They've always been the Renter type. But there are a few films that they like to have on physical media, and that's the James Bond films. Years ago, they got a DVD burner (common on most PCs nowa these days) and one of the things they did first was to burn copies of the Bond film from VHS copies to DVD. They were actually too cheap to go buy the restored DVD sets that came out before the BD format came out. And no, this isn't a poor family...they're both retired teachers, live in a nice "country club" neighborhood, and my uncle lives on the Golf Course, if you know what I mean. And here's the main point here...they didn't and have never cared about the PQ and AQ presentation of the films they watch. It is total apathy. The TVs they have had over the years, including their first HDTV have had some of the worst PQ I have ever seen. I don't know if their eyes are just that bad, or they have no idea how to adjust their TVs setting for best PQ.

I have older relatives in their '70's who are very similar. They still watch stuff on VHS & don't seem to know or care about the difference between VHS, DVD, or Blu. They got their first DVD player several years ago, and I would be surprised if they ever get a Blu player...

That being said, I can't believe that people would bother to burn a VHS print onto a DVD?! WTF?! The PQ difference between the two formats is extremely significant, obviously more so than the difference between DVD & Blu. Plus, there's the whole pan & scan vs. widescreen issue. Some people will just settle for anything...

I haven't had a VHS player since '96; after mine broke, I never replaced it since I hated the format - and this was even before DVD existed (or at least existed in the U.S. - since IIRC DVD made it's first debut in Japan back in '96).

[I KEEL YOU]

As members of this forum, everyone here obviously knows that there is a niche market for physical media. Everyone knows that unlike the major studios smaller independent labels like Shout Factory understand the "collector" aspect of the physical media market, bla bla bla, yada yada yada....

However, if we ever get to a point where digital outsells physical by a vast amount, like 80-20 or more, how likely do you think it is that the major studios will keep licensing out their movies to these smaller labels because there is a niche market for it?

How likely do you think that the smaller labels themselves will be willing to be in a business if a market is that small? They would have to charge $30-40 a movie in order to make the business profitable. And yet we are members of a blu ray aficionado forum where I have read countless posts where people are posting that they are interested in a blu ray, but that they are not willing to pay 15 friggin dollars for it, they will wait 6 months or a year until it drops to $10 so that they can save those $5!!

So thanks to all the Captian Obviouses who are pointing out that there is still a niche market for physical media and that there always will be. But it's still a matter of size. If we get to a point where the market becomes too niche, then there will be no market at all.

[Lincoln6Echo]

As I read some of the arguments here about how the convenience of owning a thing DVD over the bulky VHS tapes and the PERCEIVED massive upgrade in video quality, I canm completely understand, but remember these two things.

1) VHS had a resolution worse than broadcast TV. Don't recall the exact pixel count, but it was 240i, right? With S-VHS running at 360i, if I'm correct. Then DVD came along with 480i that maxed out the resolution to match the max resolution of SD CRT TVs. So at last we had a home video format that was as good, if not better than broadcast TV.

2) But then HDTVs started to make their way into the market by the early 2000s, and became the norm once the Digital TV switch over became official in 2007. Running at 720p and 1080i and 1080p, these DVDs started looking less attractive on bigger and bigger HD sets. I think if you've never watched a BD on a HD screen, your perceived opinion on DVD's PQ probably remains the same and see it as "good enough"...but if you're a videophile, and once you see (and hear) the difference between a good BD over the DVD, you'll never go back. I don't know how many TV titles I haven't bought because they're only on DVD. It' a damn shame that the BBC Robin Hood series from years ago wasn't fully put out on BD. Same thing for Legend of the Seeker. Films and TV series that have a lot of vegetation in them, benefit greatly from the extra resolution of BD.

But all I know if this...just like my first point...when you're used to watching HD broadcasts, who wants to pop in a home video format with lesser quality of PQ? I have been highly tempted to box up all of my DVDs and either sell them or store them. I don't watch any of them any more.

[darkknightman]

The majority of consumers are going to chose convenience over quality. It's just a fact. You need to look no further than the current generation of children and teens. They do not collect cd's, dvd's or any such physical media at all and are content on having their music in mp3 format and watching movies and shows via Netflix, or other such services. I am always amused at those collectors who get utterly angry at the inevitable decline of physical media. Personally, I purchased several copies of dvd's and blu rays and now face the reality that they are becoming worthless. I have sold much of my physical media and have only kept a few titles. I have over a hundred movies in UV and personally prefer the convenience of digital media. I have actually watched more older films now because I don't need to pull discs off my shelves any more. I am contemplating selling off the rest of blu rays and going all digital. I can tell you all this, blu rays aren't selling for nearly as much as they used to on Ebay. Physical media is coming to a close whether we like it or not.

[schlock]

I think it would be a great experiment to stop 100 random people on the street (no, not people in Best Buy) and ask them if they even know what Blu-Ray is. I'm sure many would have heard about Blu, but I bet the vast majority of people would not be able to tell you how it's any different than a DVD. I was shocked when my sister asked me on the phone what the difference was - she only asked because she had stopped by a store to buy a replacement DVD player and she saw a Blu player there as well and had no clue which one to buy. I explained to her the differences and all that, but that stuff didn't matter to her at all. She just needed a player to play DVDs.

Quality means diddly squat to 99% of the general population. Everyone bought a widescreen tv when they came out because that was "the thing", but then they watch all their tv-shows stretched out and distorted, and if they do watch a DVD or Blu, most people don't even have a clue how to adjust the aspect ratio on those. (I've seen people watch 1.85:1 movies stretched out to 2.35:1 with black bars on top and bottom just because their sets are set to stretch.) And they don't even know anything's wrong! Trying to educate them that a Blu has more lines of resolution than a DVD is pretty much a pointless endeavor.

[darkknightman]

Originally Posted by schlock

I think it would be a great experiment to stop 100 random people on the street (no, not people in Best Buy) and ask them if they even know what Blu-Ray is. I'm sure many would have heard about Blu, but I bet the vast majority of people would not be able to tell you how it's any different than a DVD. I was shocked when my sister asked me on the phone what the difference was - she only asked because she had stopped by a store to buy a replacement DVD player and she saw a Blu player there as well and had no clue which one to buy. I explained to her the differences and all that, but that stuff didn't matter to her at all. She just needed a player to play DVDs.

Quality means diddly squat to 99% of the general population. Everyone bought a widescreen tv when they came out because that was "the thing", but then they watch all their tv-shows stretched out and distorted, and if they do watch a DVD or Blu, most people don't even have a clue how to adjust the aspect ratio on those. (I've seen people watch 1.85:1 movies stretched out to 2.35:1 with black bars on top and bottom just because their sets are set to stretch.) And they don't even know anything's wrong! Trying to educate them that a Blu has more lines of resolution than a DVD is pretty much a pointless endeavor.

Your correct. We don't represent the majority of consumers. Out of all of my friends and family, not one of them owns a blu ray player. They watch dvd's or now stream the majority of content.