Oh noes teh sky is falling!

[murphywmm]

One good thing about the popularity of digital streaming is that nobody bugs me anymore to borrow my discs.

[Yojimbo68]

So I have a Vizio Blu-ray player. (Which does an okay job of playing Blu-ray's but I wouldn't recommend one. But hey I got it as a gift.) It has apps on it which enables you to stream content from various providers. Anyway, I just got a message last night that said this device will no longer offer the Amazon app after September 14, 2015! True Vizio is no longer making Blu-ray players and no software updates have been available for quite a while but there is the future for you. Don't get cozy with your streaming device. They can take away whatever app they want at any time. Nice, eh?

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by Yojimbo68

So I have a Vizio Blu-ray player. (Which does an okay job of playing Blu-ray's but I wouldn't recommend one. But hey I got it as a gift.) It has apps on it which enables you to stream content from various providers. Anyway, I just got a message last night that said this device will no longer offer the Amazon app after September 14, 2015! True Vizio is no longer making Blu-ray players and no software updates have been available for quite a while but there is the future for you. Don't get cozy with your streaming device. They can take away whatever app they want at any time. Nice, eh?

panasonic did the same thing recently... updated the firmware and voila... the app vanished

[eiknarf]

There are a ton of comments on the, "Fox Reveals First 4K Blu-ray Titles" news article. They should take the conversation in here. Much more effective

[eiknarf]

Nothing has to take over something else.
Blu-ray didn't take over DVD, Streaming doesn't have to take the place of blu-ray or DVD, 4K doesn't have to replace or take over blu-ray...etc They're all making money, and in some bizarre hippy sort of way, all getting along (allowed to coexist).
Some like to watch DVDs, others like to watch OnDemand, some prefer blu-ray, while others prefer Netflix or Amazon Instant Video... etc

[Optical Disc OCD]

Originally Posted by eiknarf

Nothing has to take over something else.
Blu-ray didn't take over DVD, Streaming doesn't have to take the place of blu-ray or DVD, 4K doesn't have to replace or take over blu-ray...etc They're all making money, and in some bizarre hippy sort of way, all getting along (allowed to coexist).
Some like to watch DVDs, others like to watch OnDemand, some prefer blu-ray, while others prefer Netflix or Amazon Instant Video... etc

Well who WOULDN'T prefer Netflix? ...which comes with the joy of watching films in the WRONG ASPECT RATIO, the same lovely thing that HBO does for scope movies (anything over 1.85:1 OAR) [/sarcastica font]

Sadly, Showtime is the only premium movie channel that usually gets it right when it comes to displaying scope movies. As far as streaming goes: Netflix is notorious for aspect ratio problems, though I've heard that they blame it on the studios/companies providing them with the content (i.e. allegedly not their fault, but this is a deal-breaker for me and they have enough influence to pre$$ure studios to send them the right aspect ratio content if they really cared about their customers. This is why I'd get Hulu if I got any streaming service (hundreds of Criterion Collection and Janus film titles). Blu-ray is the way to watch a movie at home as long as the film is available on the format with a good transfer. Yeah 4K Blu would be even better if the library of titles was available, but its also a big investment to buy a new tv AND player before even starting to double-dip on titles one might love enough to upgrade).

[Scarface32]

Originally Posted by Yojimbo68

So I have a Vizio Blu-ray player. (Which does an okay job of playing Blu-ray's but I wouldn't recommend one. But hey I got it as a gift.) It has apps on it which enables you to stream content from various providers. Anyway, I just got a message last night that said this device will no longer offer the Amazon app after September 14, 2015! True Vizio is no longer making Blu-ray players and no software updates have been available for quite a while but there is the future for you. Don't get cozy with your streaming device. They can take away whatever app they want at any time. Nice, eh?

Originally Posted by wormraper

panasonic did the same thing recently... updated the firmware and voila... the app vanished

I have a Sony BD player that came with a Flixster app (no Vudu support), and it stopped working a month ago. Flixster killed access to their servers from my player, they didn't want to support it anymore since the player hasn't had an update since 2012. No more Ultraviolet streaming for me.

[rickah88]

Never understood why this subject always devolves into a one or the other debate. Here's an interesting word: coexist!
Why can't delivery vehicle options coexist with each other?
I prefer physical BD over streaming content, but I do stream certain things that I'm unable to get on BD.
I always like having options, but maybe that's just me.

As for physical media going away...can we just make that an annual discussion and then go back and have a chuckle at the pervious years discussion? Because that's pretty much I do anyway!
Folks have been claiming physical media would die off years ago. Yet here we are!
Not sure about anyone else, but I'm not going to waste my time looking for pieces of sky laying on the ground. Certainly not when I see my annual BD purchases rise, in quantity, year after year.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Scarface32

Depends on which part of NYC. Brooklyn and Queens has more apartment space than Manhattan.

Not necessarily. I live in Queens and I've lived in Brooklyn. In Brooklyn, I lived in a brownstone. The apartment was gorgeous - oak window seats and shutters, oak cabinets in the bathroom with original marble counters, 15' ceilings, beautiful moldings, non-working fireplace and I exposed the brick over the fireplace, BUT - even though it took up half a floor of a wide brownstone, it was only a bedroom and living room and the kitchen was built into a former closet. The refrigerator was in the dining room, which wasn't a separate room - it was actually part of the living room. It was fine as a starter apartment, but it was very small. We only had a TV in the bedroom, but that was our choice as much as it was based on the space limitations. I did have a high quality stereo system in the living room.

My Queens apartment is a 2-bedroom, but I think it's only about 900 sq ft. I know people who live in McMansions with bathrooms almost that big.

If you go to new hip areas like Williamsburg, even though many of the new apartment buildings were built in what used to be factories and warehouses and you'd think that they'd have giant, loft-like space, the rooms are frequently so small that you might think you were being punked. I looked at one apartment for the meager price of $600,000 (and that was several years ago - it would be much higher priced now) in which they had a miniature couch, a tiny coffee table in front of it, about one foot of space and then the opposite wall. The bedroom had room for a queen size bed (maybe), but no side tables. At the foot of the bed was maybe a foot of space and then a sliding door closet. Someone living in a space like that isn't collecting much of anything. I pass by some new buildings where people have books stacked up on their window sills because it's really the only place in the room to store anything.

People living in such spaces aren't going to be collectors. They're going to have everything on MP3 players and computers with a small sound system. If they have a TV, it's going to be a relatively small one.

In smaller cities, people would tend to have more space.

[CelestialAgent]

Originally Posted by Groot

http://www.theesa.com/wp-content/upl...Facts-2015.pdf

Since 2010 digital game sells have almost doubled to a now 52% hold on the market.

It seems digital is the future for the majority of users whether we like it or not.

Ah yes, because there are video games with audio commentaries and making of documentaries only available on the disc.

But like with DVD/Blu-Ray, collectors will keep physical game sales alive with NES titles they don't want to use an emulator for, or PS2 games that were never deemed worthy of a Steam release or whatever reason.

---

My experience with the US when I was over there a few months ago is that Barnes and Noble is absolutely amazing for it (if only Waterstones in the UK were), with lots of Criterions and Blu-Rays for every label out there (plus vinyls too.) The Forbidden Planet in NYC had a good few shelves with Blu-Rays from Blue Underground etc. The comic shop I went to in Boston had an impressive selection of Blu-Rays too. However as for Best Buy I was very, very disappointed with their awful selection.

I think the UK may be a little better off. Okay, I've never found a comic shop crammed full with Blu-Rays, but HMV devotes an entire aisle at the back of the store to Blu-Rays, many of which are in 3 for £20/5 for £30 offers, including smaller labels like Eureka! and Arrow. Supermarkets like Sainsburys have a limited but healthy selection, although second hand chains like That's Entertainment have maybe 50 Blu-Rays total out of hundreds of DVDs, whilst CEX have a limited selection compared to their DVD range which takes up a floor and three quarters. Charity shops almost never have Blu-Rays, although perhaps that is because they have fallen victim to the rise of eBay etc. Yet at the same time I know literally no-one who buys Blu-Rays except for my tech-savvy parents when it's cheap - they usually buy the DVD in any case.

[chip75]

That's the same in most cities, in London developers will buy one loft apartment and convert it into four shoe-boxes, the same thing happens when they develop county mansions into separate living spaces.

The problem have is if the no collections shoe-box living consumers drive the industry then those who want physical things will be out of choices eventually.

[Scarface32]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Not necessarily.

Well it was a comparison between Manhattan and the other two as a whole. I wasn't comparing Brooklyn to Queens. I have a friend in Manhattan that lives in a shoebox, very tiny. What you've described in Queens is larger than what he has.


*********

Does anyone think the 007 collection of films will make it to UHD discs? I have yet to buy the set on Blu-ray, only owning them on DVD. Should I wait for UHD or pick up the new set being released?

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Musicguy

if more retailers stocked Blu-ray - more blu-rays would be sold. ....so I never go to BB anymore - and they will mostly likely follow in Circuit City's footsteps. They already started closing stores.

As it is, the only store left with a decent Blu-ray selection is Barnes and Noble - but they are also having trouble because people don't buy books anymore (some stopped reading altogether)

Best Buy was doing really lousy until they brought back their original management team a few years ago. Since then (and much to my surprise), they've actually been doing pretty well, but it's primarily because they now lease out space in the store to various manufacturers, rather than buy the products themselves. Obviously, that's not true for the media section.

Any new BB stores will be a smaller store model and media will get even less space. Stores like BB never made much money on media. The point of media was to get you into the store to buy something else. This goes back decades when even large department stores used to sell records, even though they didn't make money at it.

Bookselling was never a great business. B&N has been in trouble for a long time and it looks like they're not renewing many leases because they can't afford the massive rent increases that come with a new lease. Where I live in NYC, they have three stores in Queens, but they're all closing over the next few months. The one in my neighborhood actually sold very little DVD/BD anyway - they only stocked a very few titles and what I mean by that is they had a few titles stocked near the cash registers along with cloth bags. There was no section. In Manhattan, the original B&N flagship store at 5th Avenue and about 18th street closed as did a large one nearby on 6th Avenue. From what I can tell, they've only got six stores left in Manhattan.

People are complaining, but if people didn't give all their business to Amazon, physical bookstores could still exist. In my neighborhood, the B&N is going to be replaced by a "mini" Target - just what we don't need, but Target is willing to pay far more rent than any bookstore ever could.

Originally Posted by Scarface32

B&N is an evil corporation, and I hope they crash and burn. They engage in the unethical business practice of "bait and switch"

I have no idea what you're talking about. I've never had any problems with anything I've ever ordered from B&N. But you'll probably get your wish anyway, which will give Amazon even more power. As far as I'm concerned, Amazon is far more evil than B&N. How can they possibly "bait and switch"? Did they send you different product than you ordered? Did they tell you something was on sale and when you got it, they billed you full price?

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by mja345

It seems a thread like this pops up weekly on here. Things are transitioning to digital obviously. Where you really see that is in the 21 and under crowd. My nephew is 15 and I doubt he has ever owned or watched a disc in his life. That's what these kids have been weaned on. I'm 28 and I personally know only one other person in my age range that is still buying discs. But, like me, the dude I know who still buys physical is a film buff. Most people aren't really passionate about film, so they just watch the recent shit that's put into multiplexes. Labels like Criterion, Arrow, Shout Factory, Kino, etc. would be like a foreign language to most of these people. If you are someone with a very mainstream taste in movies, then streaming is a great option. Those people don't need to buy discs.

However, if you are into more obscure films, as a lot of people on this board are, then buying discs is still very logical. The films that everyone and their mother knows (the Alien films, the Godfather films, Jaws, Indiana Jones, etc.) will always be available no matter what the format. But, for film fanatics, having a BD disc of a more obscure title is of utmost importance IMO.

I have posted the exact same perspective nearly every time one of these weekly threads pops up and each and every time I'm accused of being Chicken Little and not understanding young people, etc. Last time a guy tried to convince me that when all these device happy, streaming satisfied young people get older they will completely change all their habits and become sophisticated cinephiles with expensive, elaborate home theaters. I understand people who post on message boards like this wanting and hoping for such an eventuality, but realistically I just don't see it happening. Physical media and digital may coexist for quite awhile, but in terms of the general direction I think it will move more and more away from physical. The sky may not be falling, but it isn't frozen in place either.

[mredman]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Especially with modern apartment architecture, where many new buildings (in the U.S.) have floor to ceiling windows, there isn't a lot of wall space to store media (in fact, it's even hard to place a large screen TV in many of these places).

And many people today don't want all those physical books, music and video lining their walls even if they had the space - from a style standpoint, they want a more "zen" look. And if you think about it, it doesn't really make sense logically. What's the point of having a large library of anything if it just sits on the shelf and collects dust?

There's also a tremendous difference in the size of apartments. Most NYC apartments, for example, are pretty damned small unless they're pre-WWII buildings.

In my particular apartment, I'm really at my limit with about 200 BDs, 400 LPs, 750 CDs and lots of books and journals. Over the years, I've scanned and dumped a lot of journals, tossed books I will never read again, gotten rid of my old VHS stuff, sold off most of my DVDs and sold about 100LPs, , but I really can't add anything unless I get rid of something else without the place looking like some crazy person lives here.

Look...it comes down to a personal preference. Some people like to collect, own things and build libraries of media. Other people just want to have a movie available when they feel like watching it and they don't need the packaging. For the former, they'll still buy stuff. For the latter, they'll stream. I used to be a big collector of music, but for most of today's music, if I hear it, I hear it and if I don't, I don't, because it all sounds pretty much the same to me. It's not like the days when I'd hear something new on the radio and love it so much that I'd rush out the next day to buy the album. I don't feel like I have to own current music (I wish I did). Many people feel the same way about current films. They don't have to own them.

Some people need to rush out and buy the first printing of hardcovers and other people are fine borrowing the book from the library.

Personally, there are some films I do want to own and there are some films that if I've seen them theatrically once or stream them at home, that's fine...I don't need to also own them.

So it's a pointless discussion really...different strokes for different folks and all that. Each side has their own needs and desires and they'll act accordingly.

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

I have posted the exact same perspective nearly every time one of these weekly threads pops up and each and every time I'm accused of being Chicken Little and not understanding young people, etc. Last time a guy tried to convince me that when all these device happy, streaming satisfied young people get older they will completely change all their habits and become sophisticated cinephiles with expensive, elaborate home theaters. I understand people who post on message boards like this wanting and hoping for such an eventuality, but realistically I just don't see it happening. Physical media and digital may coexist for quite awhile, but in terms of the general direction I think it will move more and more away from physical. The sky may not be falling, but it isn't frozen in place either.

you know why because you are chicken little there will always be physical media like Blu-Ray

1. its the best way to watch movies and tv shows at home with best PQ and AQ

2. Studios know they can charge way more for physical media.

3. People actually get something for their hard earned money

4. Even streamers buy Blu-Rays ect.. for the stuff they really like especially franchises and superhero movies and popular tv shows..

5. Not everyone will ever have fast internet around the globe.

6. There will always be Movie collectors around the globe.

7. Movies disappear on streaming services when they are not watched enough. Your Blu-Ray collection doesn't.

8. Without Physical media there will be even more illegal streaming sites being used (recent Popcorn) and illegal downloads so studios will lose millions of dollars.

9. Digital is "smoke" streaming is for stuff you wanna watch one time or for stuff to see if you wanna buy on Blu-Ray.

10. You don't need a freaking internet connection to watch your movies.

[Packerfan75]

Originally Posted by rickah88

Here's an interesting word: coexist!
Why can't delivery vehicle options coexist with each other?

My DVD's, HD DVD's and Blu-ray's are co-existing just fine. Sometimes they have a disagreement or get into a little scuffle but once I step in to break it up, everything goes back to normal.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Scarface32

Does anyone think the 007 collection of films will make it to UHD discs? I have yet to buy the set on Blu-ray, only owning them on DVD. Should I wait for UHD or pick up the new set being released?

At least half-a-dozen or so Bond films have been remastered in 4K (they did about 10 a few years back). I'd imagine the rest will follow suit (some of the modern ones are finished in a lower resolution). Some could certainly use new transfers as well.

It depends on whether you want to watch the movies now with mostly great transfers or wait and see if they release a better 4K set in the next few years. The Canadian BDs were incredibly cheap a few weeks back ($16.99 CDN per volume).

I wonder if we see combo-packs will the BDs have new transfers if the UHD BDs have new ones or will they just re-issue the old BDs? It won't be a big deal with new films, but if they released Goldeneye with a new 4K transfer I'd hope the BD would match it and not recycle the old disc. I guess we'll have to see!

[Member-222782]

Originally Posted by eiknarf

Nothing has to take over something else.
Blu-ray didn't take over DVD, Streaming doesn't have to take the place of blu-ray or DVD, 4K doesn't have to replace or take over blu-ray...etc They're all making money, and in some bizarre hippy sort of way, all getting along (allowed to coexist).
Some like to watch DVDs, others like to watch OnDemand, some prefer blu-ray, while others prefer Netflix or Amazon Instant Video... etc

Yes, but everyone is predicting that all of these choices will be a thing of the past and that streaming will be the only way to watch movies. I can't imagine a future like that. The likelihood of that actually happening is very slim but I just wishing people would stop saying things like "streaming is the way of the future - you'll take it and like it". Streaming is OK for disposable movies like Hangover 3, where no one really wants a 3-disc set and a 2 hour documentary.

[evilive]

I dunno dudes, the cheap-o "eco" cases, the awful generic photoshop cover art, the endless stickers on slips, and the inclusion of digital HD on all new releases? It all makes sense now.

[42041]

Originally Posted by mredman

you know why because you are chicken little there will always be physical media like Blu-Ray
1. its the best way to watch movies and tv shows at home with best PQ and AQ

Always is a long time... That will only be true as long as internet speeds are significantly slower than commercially viable physical formats, and they need to improve by less than an order of magnitude (compared to, say, a normal 15mbps downstream connection) to stream 4K video in essentially perfect quality.

2. Studios know they can charge way more for physical media.
3. People actually get something for their hard earned money

They can charge what they want - and consumers will pay what they want. Clearly, that's not been going in physical media's favor.

5. Not everyone will ever have fast internet around the globe.
10. You don't need a freaking internet connection to watch your movies.

Somehow I doubt people that don't have internet access are a huge portion of the home video market.

7. Movies disappear on streaming services when they are not watched enough. Your Blu-Ray collection doesn't.

Only if the licensing agreements incentivize removing them. Look at petabytes of garbage YouTube keeps on their servers - nothing fundamental is stopping Netflix from doing the same. This is actually a disadvantage with physical media - no one wants to manufacture or inventory movies that don't sell.