Oh noes teh sky is falling!

[Val Lewton]

This thread is ridiculous. The article in the OP was titled:

"The Premature Death of Physical Media — and the Cult Home Video Labels Keeping It Alive."

Like the headline implies, it was a spotlight on the smaller boutique labels that survive, and even thrive, as fewer and fewer people purchase physical media. There will always be a market for physically owning a movie, even as the average consumer switches to streaming.

The labels mentioned in the piece, and many more that weren't mentioned, target a very specific consumer base. For people in that base, like me - it's a great time to be a collector. The fact that more and more people are content to have a digital library is completely irrelevant. My choices as a consumer are growing, not shrinking.

[Optical Disc OCD]

Originally Posted by darkknightman

That's why people can't stop buying things to add to their collections. Is owning thousands of movies really practical or even rational? Are you going to really watch all of those films again? I know pepole will respond with anger but I accept that. It's difficult to get unplugged from consumerism.

REASON OR COLLECTING A LIBRARY OF MOVIES:
A lot of the movies I own I will definitely watch again, it's just a matter of when I get to said title. Perfect example: I haven't seen the Mad Max movies in ages until this week and it was a perfect time for a re-watch and I already owned 2 of them on dvd that I'd bought cheap years ago -- I had to borrow the other one from the library (luckily they had a non-scratched-beyond-belief recently acquired copy of in stock, probably due to new movie's popularity). I also love the convenience of being able to play a movie (older 'catalog title') that a friend hasn't yet seen at a moment's notice by pulling it off my bookshelf without having to see if some streaming service has it available to watch, which could be extremely unlikely if it's not a hugely popular title. I would already own that film because I deemed it worthy of watching again or showing to friends/family and therefore worth purchasing.

Originally Posted by darkknightman

Just look at the lunacy on Black Friday. Or individuals who stand in line for days to buy a new Iphone. Do you consider this to be productive or rational behavior? Is buying six copies of the same movie because of packaging or because it comes bundled with toys really the best use of someone's time and money? Does this type of behavior not cause collecting to cease to be about the movie itself?

BLACK FRIDAY IS AWESOME!
Sure, it probably sucks in big cities, but in the suburbs it's great. I don't need a slightly better deal on tv or computer which might be cheaper some other time of year, so I don't wait for days in line, I want movies so I only wait in line maybe an hour outside BB & Target, and can wait inside for Walmart (though WM's deals are generally weak and/or not in stock and uncivilized idiots knock copies onto the floor while trying to grab their own when there are plenty of copies to be had of said title). The Blu-rays I pick up are a BIG discount from normal prices, so it's the time of year I buy most of my movies. At suburban stores (Best Buy & Target) in decent neighborhoods I don't see the violent fighting that gets shown on the 24 hour 'news' channels and I save 50-80% on some good movies. I even have plenty of time at those 2 stores to leisurely pick up a stack (often 5-10+ copies) of each title and look for good slipcases.

I completely agree that standing in line for days to buy a new smartphone so you can add your old handheld/portable device to a landfill to slowly poison the land is stupid, but companies love when irrational people upgrade electronic devices for a few meager improvements.

I agree its silly to buy a bunch of different versions of the same movie just for cool packaging (aside form certain Asian companies who do a great job) or for some cheap tchotchkes packaged with it companies making US boxsets need to learn: books, postcards, poster reproductions and the like are very cool, whilst cheap wristwatches and small umbrellas inside a boxset are just silly and space-wasting and not the reason for my purchase, i.e. Wizard of Oz 70th Anniv and Singin' in the Rain LE sets). As for steelbooks (even though I personally own very few), it's like having a collection of small metal movie posters, so it's understandable to me as long as the artwork isn't crap.

Originally Posted by msb1428

I don't think your liking streaming is stupid at all!!! I just don't like the fact that you can loose your collection at the hands of the provider and they will not reimburse you for you loss. That's really what I don't like about it. If I could actually download a copy of the movie I would probably go digital.

I still would not go digital. Libraries of files still have to be maintained (apparently dvd-r discs eventually crap out, hard drives can fail, I think USB drives are fairly stable -- correct me if I'm wrong -- but you'll have to store them carefully and not misplace them). At least it's not as bad as the trouble the movie industry are having to spend money routinely to keep transfering their tape drives to each newer format to keep all those ones and zeroes of their restoration in tact over the years, which is why they should always make film prints to store in the salt mine archives so their library doesn't disappear when they get too cheap to keep re-transferring it digitally).

Originally Posted by darkknightman

Honestly that is the only thing I find problematic. I have built up quite a few movies on UV but I do wonder what would happen if UV ceased to be. If I lose all of my movies because of this I swear I would never buy another movie again. I would like to think that it is not in the movie studio's best interest to ever let something like happen. Studios are definitely trying to move consumers to digital. Age of Ultron is releasing digitally a whole month before the physical release.

Originally Posted by NzYme

I'm going to chime in on this topic. It seems like corporations and government are slowly pushing us into an era where consumers don't own anything. Your constantly renting or leasing something. That's why I like physical media. Once I buy it...I OWN IT. There's no policy change that's going to affect my purchase.

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

All businesses that sell easily digitized intellectual property want to remove the analog loophole of physical ownership. It underlies much of the corporate agenda for music and movies. Completely controlled content in the digital domain has always been the primary end goal.

When watching VOD cable tv at a friend's house I love how they try to dupe people into buying movies digitally for price of Blu-ray, when the real goal is likely to keep you from getting annoyed by their rising monthly cable bills and switching cable/satellite providers because they probably have your 'digital movie library' locked up in their possession and can just take it all away. Keep paying them money every month or lose your so-called 'collection'.

Originally Posted by JasonHensley

You can get some return on a physical format. A digital collection is worthless. It's sad that you will try to argue that a physical format isn't worth much when it comes to resell but act as if digital will have value. I had a collection of around 500 blurays and 800 DVDs. It brought me cash when I needed it. A digital collection that size would have done nothing.

Originally Posted by JasonHensley

Just to state my original point again.

I have no problem with streaming. I pay for Netflix at the moment. What I have a problem with is people wanting or supporting digital movies. IMO, you're paying the same price as a physical disc for something the studios don't technically want you to have ownership over. You're reliant on even more technology just to have a substantial digital collection. There is no resell value, at all, with digital movies. Where I live, Internet options can still be very limited in areas and I currently only have DSL. Movies are made for a bigger screen so being able to view them on a phone or tablet has little appeal. And, as stated before, if I'm paying for a movie to add to my collection, I want to actually own it. Being reliant to have an Internet connection, up to date computer software, enough storage, or reliant on cloud storage isn't anything I would ever find more convenient than a TV, bluray player, and a disc. I'll always purchase the movies I want on a physical format. Redbox and streaming will be used for movies I may be curious to see but don't care to own.

Not for owning, but as an alternative to renting movies I would love to get Hulu Plus just for all the Criterion and Janus film titles that I couldn't see easily elsewhere (including some classic foreign films not on disc yet). Unfortunately, my internet connection is not reliable enough to make this not frustrating (buffering issues would likely arise regularly).

Originally Posted by ZeTi

But i rarely, if ever, see Yakuza, Poliziotteschi, Gialli, Spaghetti-Western, HK Bloodshed on any streaming-site, so i am very reliant on physical discs.

One of the great reasons for physical media, owning stuff you can't get elsewhere and spreading your love of those semi-obscure titles you own on disc to friends and family to get those genre films a little more love.

Originally Posted by JasonHensley

Consumers do, in fact, steer the ship to a large degree. You seem to be a big defender of digital while always trying to find problems or could be problems with physical media. You and other people are already telling studios you don't care about ownership or control whenever you purchase something digital.

Originally Posted by JasonHensley

My argument has never been against Netflix. I look at Netflix as basically a cable competitor. I'm talking about the people who are paying retail price for digital movies that they have no ownership or control over and actually want the market to fully go in that direction because, apparently, putting a disc in a tray is a strenuous activity.

Which is another reason why its better to keep supporting physical media formats (to whatever extent your own budget permits) than to buy digital copies of things that are available on disc and let studios think they should push things further in the digital streaming direction and thereby convince them to severely cut down on physical disc releases. The more people buying discs, the longer we keep that plate spinning...

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Originally Posted by Val Lewton

The labels mentioned in the piece, and many more that weren't mentioned, target a very specific consumer base. For people in that base, like me - it's a great time to be a collector. The fact that more and more people are content to have a digital library is completely irrelevant. My choices as a consumer are growing, not shrinking.

Off topic, but this is how I feel concerning Soundtrack CDs. As the years have gone on, more and more specialty labels (La La Land Records, Intrada, etc.) have been releasing expanded, previously unavailable, etc. film scores that I could have hardly even dreamed about when I was younger (i.e. I can't believe that I'm actually able to own three multi-disc sets with music from Batman: The Animated Series).

No better time to be a soundtrack lover.

[Val Lewton]

Originally Posted by Aragorn the Elfstone

Off topic, but this is how I feel concerning Soundtrack CDs. As the years have gone on, more and more specialty labels (La La Land Records, Intrada, etc.) have been releasing expanded, previously unavailable, etc. film scores that I could have hardly even dreamed about when I was younger (i.e. I can hardly believe that I'm able to own three multi-disc sets with music from Batman: The Animated Series).

No better time to be a soundtrack lover.

You're not off topic at all. You're way more on-topic than 90% of these posts. Collecting physical media may become more niche, but as long as there's a demand, there will always be a supply. That applies to everything, including those very labels putting out soundtracks.

[Will.]

Originally Posted by Aragorn the Elfstone

Off topic, but this is how I feel concerning Soundtrack CDs. As the years have gone on, more and more specialty labels (La La Land Records, Intrada, etc.) have been releasing expanded, previously unavailable, etc. film scores that I could have hardly even dreamed about when I was younger (i.e. I can't believe that I'm actually able to own three multi-disc sets with music from Batman: The Animated Series).

No better time to be a soundtrack lover.

That's great to hear. I was into collecting soundtracks for years but I've left it....might have to look what new titles are available and jump back in.

[darkknightman]

Originally Posted by JasonHensley

Actually no, I don't pay my bills online, have direct deposit, or get automatic deductions out of my account. I don't feel the need to put all of my personal information online where people could possibly get ahold of my debit card number or other personal information. I'm still active enough to go to the bank and deposit my check when I get paid and like getting my bills in the mail and paying with a check.

Congrats. You shun every form of technology. You must live in a tent and hunt your own food too.

[Aragorn the Elfstone]

Originally Posted by Will.

That's great to hear. I was into collecting soundtracks for years but I've left it....might have to look what new titles are available and jump back in.

Here's some sites to get you started:

http://lalalandrecords.com/

http://store.intrada.com/

https://www.varesesarabande.com/

http://www.moviemusic.com/

[42041]

Originally Posted by Scarface32

I don't really see the revenue dropping though, it's still around $25+ for my Criterions (sometimes you can get lucky and find some on sale for $20). Maybe if the other studios put more of an effort in, instead of barebone releases, they could demand more as well.

The studios are doing it to themselves. The ones that put an effort in are making top dollar.

You're making some pretty strange assumptions about their financials. Photographic film has gotten quite expensive lately, but it's safe to say no one's popping champagne at Kodak these days - niche products are more expensive. It takes bigger margins to sustain a small business. And I'd be interested to know how much return these companies get on "putting in the effort". The fact that something like Twilight Time can even exist is a sign of a very unhealthy industry.

[Will.]

Originally Posted by Aragorn the Elfstone

Here's some sites to get you started:

http://lalalandrecords.com/

http://store.intrada.com/

https://www.varesesarabande.com/

http://www.moviemusic.com/

Thank you so much! I'm on it.

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by JasonHensley

Actually no, I don't pay my bills online, have direct deposit, or get automatic deductions out of my account. I don't feel the need to put all of my personal information online where people could possibly get ahold of my debit card number or other personal information. I'm still active enough to go to the bank and deposit my check when I get paid and like getting my bills in the mail and paying with a check.

The sad reality is that those companies still have your personal information on their information systems which are connected to the grid.

Originally Posted by deltatauhobbit

My house doesn't even have a phone jack , then again, I wouldn't have a landline anyway. The house didn't even have cable jacks, I had those installed in each room when I bought the place. That is a nifty trick regarding the power though, we lose the power in Maine once or twice a year where I live so I've always known the phones still work but I never thought of converting it for power .

Unfortunately, a lot of telephone providers are going away from the old analog system and converting to digital systems. This requires the customer to have a modem which requires power thus is your power goes out then so does your telephone service.

[Optical Disc OCD]

Originally Posted by mredman

I guess you missed my reply about The Furious 7 commercial advertised the Blu-Ray in a big way. The announcer didn't even mention digital and it was music to my ears when the guy in the commercial said "own it on Blu-Ray"

I love when they advertise BLU-RAY, on the flipside I get annoyed when I rent a dvd and the company/studio making the disc is touting how great it is 'owning' DIGITAL MOVIES, 'buy from your favorite online seller of digital content' etcetera. Yeah, nice job there cannibalizing the market for physical media by advertising about buying digital streaming/downloads crap on a DVD. It boggles the mind, but does lend support to the theories that studips really WANT for you to not own a copy of the movie so they can snatch it away whenever they want.

Originally Posted by mredman

that day will never come. Because without physical media like Blu-Ray studios will lose billions of dollars. Not only to the many people that are totally against digital because they see it as a scam and smoke also those that have not fast internet to. But also to countless of illegal streaming sites like the recent (popcorn) and illegal downloads it all will be out of control if people have no rights anymore. Studios alone earn billions on Physical Media around the world as you say. Its also a huge market in US generating billions of dollars there. Combined i think Physical Media generate maybe 20-25 Billion yearly around the world. Noway in hell studios are gonna abondon such a lucrative cash cow.

I get really irritated when I talk to friends and they mention how there's such and such site/torrent/etcetera to get free copies of movies from (if you like stealing content) Mostly I hear this crap from younger friends who are online gamers. I do believe popcorn is a site mentioned. If I want to see a movie for fee, there's always the local library for much of the mainstream stuff and even 1/3 to half the Criterion titles and some other indie companies' releases on dvd and even some (a fraction of more recent releases, including some Criterions) on Blu. If I want a copy of a movie, I will save up my money and BUY it legitimately. If its a good movie and they make a good product, I will eventually buy it when I can afford it. Sadly, much of the younger generation are entitled little a******s when it comes to actually paying for content, so I find it ironic that the people who BUY the content have to see those stupid anti-piracy warnings every time we load a disc we paid our hard earned money to acquire, which is why I love how some boutique companies like Criterion don't preemptively treat prospective consumers as thieves or force us to fast forward through commercials for third rate comedies and CG-infested action junk and legalese disclaimers about commentary tracks. Put in disc, push button on fast-loading main screen to play movie. Enjoy. If only it could always be like that...

Originally Posted by darkknightman

Of all my friends and family and coworkers, none of them buy movies anymore in pretty much any form.

A LARGER MOVIE COLLECTION CAN BE A WINDOW TO A WIDER WORLD
Time to find some new friends? j/k, but I do think that 'movie likers' kinda suck. They're often why crap reigns at the box office. People that don't buy movies are often the type of people who only watch the most generic stuff Hollywood puts out, much of which is admittedly instantly forgettable and could be considered less worth purchasing for repeat viewings. Heaven forbid they watch a non-escapist movie that might require some small part of their brain to not be shut off during viewing ('feelgood' Oscar bait is often just another lazy form of phony, dishonest, oversimplified, and/or escapist material). I'm not suggesting a strict diet of subtitled European arthouse fare, but maybe they could try to dip their toes outside their comfort zone once in a while. If, as I believe, Roger Ebert was correct about movies being "a machine that generates empathy", these people are running low on fuel by not really watching much of anything interesting, by not at least trying to engage with the larger world via slightly more complex and honest protrayals of different types of people in a wider range of movies. I like throwaway popcorn movies too, but I often also want something that might expand my understanding of the world or my empathy with people from other cultures. It is, to a certain extent, my cheaper form of seeing the world since with my income I can't afford to travel to a large number of different countries (though I would like to). Even if they had the desire, I could see how many Americans in the 99% can't afford to travel around and see the world, but it's sad that they also avoid the more affordable way of seeing it through the lens of the movie camera. Its the collectors of physical media who I've encountered on sites such as this one who seem to have more of an interest in seeing more ways of life depicted in foreign and independent films. I know collectors exist who probably collect only really mainstream stuff, but I think that the more films one collects (which someone in this topic might consider 'hoarding'), the more types of films they are probably open to checking out and the greater a sense of curiosity they might possess. It's ironic to consider that some people who spend a large amount of time in their favorite chair or on the couch staring at a tv screen while surrounded by their movie collections might, in a sense, be exhibiting more engagement with the world we live in than the people outside staring endlessly into their digital devices.

Originally Posted by JasonHensley

You have not posted any positives of digital other than saving space. Again, if you're paying full price for a movie what is the advantage of picking digital over disc? Digital requires more hardware. Digital causes you the lose actual ownership over the movie. Digital doesn't have the quality of physical. Digital is dependent on more monthly costs. It's no secret that the younger generation is obsessed with technology. I see plenty of younger people at work come and go who can't make it through a 12 hour shift without staring at their phone. The supposed simplicity of digital is being embraced by a younger generation who are living at home with mommy and daddy longer, can't work a physical job that requires mechanical skill on machines you can't google answers for, and who are becoming obese simply because walking across a room is far to strenuous for them. Until you can post something digital truly has over physical I'll will keep arguing my point.

Originally Posted by spiderfan1985

I stand by physical discs completely. I like the control I have over what I watch and my access to it. I also like collecting.
...
Edit: Also picture and audio quality is important to me. I don't want to be watching a movie and have it be crystal clear one second and then suddenly go all pixelated the next depending on internet speed because I live in an area where the speeds just aren't up there for it. Really PQ/AQ depends on just how into the films you are. If you're just an average Joe or Jane who watches movies here and there, but don't really care about them beyond the simple act of watching them then you may not care about such things as picture or audio quality. If however you are like me and others on this site who love movies and everything about them and discussing them and poring over them then PQ/AQ does mean a lot. Film is indeed art and you want to view that art in the very best way possible.

Blu-ray looks much better and its easier to freeze frame a scene to examine a minor detail that it will ever be to do with streaming/VOD where I get frustrated trying to freeze the right screen to catch a visual joke hidden in text a scene that goes by too fast at normal viewing speed.

[42041]

Originally Posted by Optical Disc OCD

A LARGER MOVIE COLLECTION CAN BE A WINDOW TO A WIDER WORLD
Time to find some new friends? j/k, but I do think that 'movie likers' kinda suck. They're often why crap reigns at the box office. People that don't buy movies are often the type of people who only watch the most generic stuff Hollywood puts out, much of which is admittedly instantly forgettable and could be considered less worth purchasing for repeat viewings.

er, those tend to also be the best-selling titles on video.
I prefer to watch movies at independent and repertory cinemas. You often get to see them as they were meant to be seen - on 35mm, on a big screen, with an audience.
Of course, outside a big city, video is your only real option.

[eiknarf]

Originally Posted by darkknightman

I don't know. This particular transition of entertainment consumption is sort of unprecedented. Before it was just changing from one form of physical media to the next. Now it's a transition from physical media to non physical media in the form of digital lockers. Studios are certainly pushing for this as including digital copies in just about every physical media release as well as now releasing digital versions weeks before the physical counterpart is definitely an indication of this. Physical media will exist in some form for years to come but I think the belief that most people prefer physical media might be overstated. Of all my friends and family and coworkers, none of them buy movies anymore in pretty much any form.

So the question to ask isn't if physical media will die in our lifetime, because it won't. We're still here, supporting it, and most collectors of cinema will do just that until they die.
The question is, how will physical media (particularly movies on disc) fare after all of us here in this forum are 80 years old and up, or dead? The kids being born right now will probably not grow up thinking, "I gotta have that on disc", so that sort of hobby won't be an outlet of fun. It's sad to me, actually

[klauswhereareyou]

As long as there are televisions and players that stuff will play on, it's all good.

[dadaluholla]

Physical media will still be around for years to come, but we will definitely see a steep decline with each generation. If you took a poll of elementary kids and asked if they'd prefer a 90 minute hi-def cinematic experience or the latest YouTube video of someone playing minecraft, the majority of them are going to go with YouTube. The interest in movies just isn't there anymore, at least in the same way it was for those of us who grew up relying on films as a major source of entertainment

[deltatauhobbit]

Originally Posted by eiknarf

So the question to ask isn't if physical media will die in our lifetime, because it won't. We're still here, supporting it, and most collectors of cinema will do just that until they die.
The question is, how will physical media (particularly movies on disc) fare after all of us here in this forum are 80 years old and up, or dead? The kids being born right now will probably not grow up thinking, "I gotta have that on disc", so that sort of hobby won't be an outlet of fun. It's sad to me, actually

There's always the possibility that owning discs will be retro and cool in future generations. There's a reason why vinyl is more popular now than it ever has been before.

[Yojimbo68]

Originally Posted by Aragorn the Elfstone

Off topic, but this is how I feel concerning Soundtrack CDs. As the years have gone on, more and more specialty labels (La La Land Records, Intrada, etc.) have been releasing expanded, previously unavailable, etc. film scores that I could have hardly even dreamed about when I was younger (i.e. I can't believe that I'm actually able to own three multi-disc sets with music from Batman: The Animated Series).

No better time to be a soundtrack lover.

I hear ya! Some stunning releases! I recently picked up a six CD set of music from the original Mission: Impossible TV series. It's amazing!

[PrestigeWorldwide]

Originally Posted by JasonHensley

Actually no, I don't pay my bills online, have direct deposit, or get automatic deductions out of my account. I don't feel the need to put all of my personal information online where people could possibly get ahold of my debit card number or other personal information. I'm still active enough to go to the bank and deposit my check when I get paid and like getting my bills in the mail and paying with a check.

In my experience, paying with a check is much more dangerous than paying with a debit card. Someone got my checking account number & routing number (I assume someone stole a check in the mail), had new checks made, and wrote a ton of bad checks at various stores. It took forever to get everything settled with all of the different stores, and for whatever reason, the bank has a harder time blocking checks than simply changing a debit card number.

If someone steals your debit card number, all you have to do is inform your bank and they can instantly block it, reverse the fraudulent charges, and issue you a new card. Much, much, much easier. After experiencing both, I'm never writing a check again unless I have no other option.

[I KEEL YOU]

Originally Posted by deltatauhobbit

There's a reason why vinyl is more popular now than it ever has been before.

That doesn't even make any damn sense. Vinyl more popular today, where there are several ways to buy music than it was decades ago when vinyl was the only way of buying music?

[CelestialAgent]

Originally Posted by Optical Disc OCD

I get really irritated when I talk to friends and they mention how there's such and such site/torrent/etcetera to get free copies of movies from (if you like stealing content) Mostly I hear this crap from younger friends who are online gamers. I do believe popcorn is a site mentioned. If I want to see a movie for fee, there's always the local library for much of the mainstream stuff and even 1/3 to half the Criterion titles and some other indie companies' releases on dvd and even some (a fraction of more recent releases, including some Criterions) on Blu. If I want a copy of a movie, I will save up my money and BUY it legitimately. If its a good movie and they make a good product, I will eventually buy it when I can afford it. Sadly, much of the younger generation are entitled little a******s when it comes to actually paying for content, so I find it ironic that the people who BUY the content have to see those stupid anti-piracy warnings every time we load a disc we paid our hard earned money to acquire, which is why I love how some boutique companies like Criterion don't preemptively treat prospective consumers as thieves or force us to fast forward through commercials for third rate comedies and CG-infested action junk and legalese disclaimers about commentary tracks. Put in disc, push button on fast-loading main screen to play movie. Enjoy. If only it could always be like that...

The only time I support piracy is if it's the only way to watch it. You want to watch something that has only been released on VHS, laserdisc or only aired on TV? Well I'd rather watch it illegally than go through the process of acquiring a laserdisc player and second hand discs, likely at exorbitant prices. And for some films the region coding prevents them being watched in another country, so what does one do then?

But yes, there is certainly some self-entitlement going on.

Originally Posted by dadaluholla

Physical media will still be around for years to come, but we will definitely see a steep decline with each generation. If you took a poll of elementary kids and asked if they'd prefer a 90 minute hi-def cinematic experience or the latest YouTube video of someone playing minecraft, the majority of them are going to go with YouTube. The interest in movies just isn't there anymore, at least in the same way it was for those of us who grew up relying on films as a major source of entertainment

I'll agree with that. Now I don't watch Minecraft on YouTube, but I'd be watching way more films if I wasn't devoting an hour or so to YouTube every day.