Oh noes teh sky is falling!

[eiknarf]

Originally Posted by Jake2104

Im 17 so I guess I can give a good insight into the way new generations thinks about and watches movies. I do buy blu-rays (just discs in general) of my favorite movies as I like to recreate the cinema experience at home instead of watching on a small screen. The never watch movies on my smart phone, and only do watch some on my iPad or Laptop when Im away from home.

That being said, I am the only one that I know that buys discs, everyone else my age streams movies, not even legal streaming like Netflix or iTunes, they use illegal streaming sites or just download them outright from torrents, as what has been mentioned in this thread they think of movies as just disposable entertainment and is not worth paying for.

So really why people are debating physical to streaming, note that most people in from the new generation streaming is done for free and the reason they are not getting blu-ray's or physical disk's is because they don't want to pay for movies in general, which is a bigger problem for the entertainment industry.

This actually leads to where streaming is today as the studios try to convince people to pay for movies by giving them a convent option (iTunes, Vudu etc) or a cheap option (Netflix). But the problem is the mind set of my generation has already been set on movies are not something they should have to pay for. Heck even some of my friends don't go to the cinema anymore cause they can either torrent a cam or wait 2 months and get a good copy to watch for free at home.

So the youth of today feels a sense of entitlement, in that they shouldn't have to pay for a film viewing. Are they going to keep doing that when they're hard working adults and understand the value of a product? They're going to be 37 year olds ripping files illegally from torrent sites?

[Scarface32]

Originally Posted by octagon

What's depressing about it? They're seventeen. Seventeen year olds have always been cheap (primarily because they've always been broke).

Actually not entirely true. It was recently discovered at a tech conference that 14-17 year olds spend money like water. They don't have bills; no mortgage, no car payments, no utility bills, no taxes, etc. Choosing not to spend money on movies doesn't mean they don't have the money, they just choose to spend it on other things like clothes, phones, etc. This was discovered because more and more young people are spending money to develop tech with the future plan of later selling it to Google or one of the other big companies.

[mredman]

Originally Posted by eiknarf

So the youth of today feels a sense of entitlement, in that they shouldn't have to pay for a film viewing. Are they going to keep doing that when they're hard working adults and understand the value of a product? They're going to be 37 year olds ripping files illegally from torrent sites?

^^ This we all get older and wiser hell i don't run around with a plastic gun anymore either

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Errol Riddick

Boy, are you on the lam from a State Run Psychiatric Ward?

No need for insults, I have been civil to everyone.

I can see certain scenarios playing out that's all. Go and check out the comments by that Dreamworks CEO on google and tell me that wouldn't lead to most people just renting the cheap option on mobile devices. We all know it would.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by eiknarf

So the youth of today feels a sense of entitlement, in that they shouldn't have to pay for a film viewing. Are they going to keep doing that when they're hard working adults and understand the value of a product? They're going to be 37 year olds ripping files illegally from torrent sites?

Yes of course.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by mar3o

This is all very depressing.

It's the reality. It is why schemes like the one mentioned will eventually be put in place. In the end, the industry will just be glad to get ANY money, even if it is two dollars on a smartphone. Like I have mentioned several times in the past, I can see a Spotify model eventually existing. SD with adverts free or a very small fee. HD n adverts for a monthly fee.

We are the last gen of collectors. Those UV movies, IMO, are already a failure. It will take several ideas like UV before the industry realises that Digital ain't going to bring in the coins.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by mredman

^^ This we all get older and wiser hell i don't run around with a plastic gun anymore either

I only do that at weekends.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by octagon

Absolutely.



A) I can't image a scenario under which phones and tablets are the dominant format for movie/tv watching. People like big screens (including those damn kids today who go to theaters far more frequently than people our ages).

B) Let's say in some bizarre alternate reality A does come to pass. So what? You still have to make a case that the dominant way of watching movies or TV shows will be the only way of watching movies or TV shows and reality simply does not reflect your 'all one or all the other' way of seeing things.



I have considered this and I think your conclusions are ridiculous.

Standard definition programming is currently cheaper than high definition programming and yet high definition programming is thriving. McDonald's is cheaper than Applebee's or Olive Garden or the like which are in turn cheaper than fine dining and yet Applebee's and Olive Garden and fine dining are all thriving. Buying clothes at Kmart or Target is cheaper than buying nicer clothes at more expensive stores and yet there is no shortage of more expensive stores selling nicer clothes.

You say cheap as chips wins the day but that's simply not true. At least not in the binary, black-and-white way you're painting things.

It's true that you can't walk more than a block or two without seeing a McDonalds but you only have walk another ten or fifteen feet to find something else.

More and more films are seeing a Digital HD release but no Bluray. Where are my options for the high end in this scenario?

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

More and more films are seeing a Digital HD release but no Bluray. Where are my options for the high end in this scenario?

I would think your options would be obvious: you could buy the digital release or you could not buy the digital release.

What does that have to do with TVs disappearing? Are you going to stop buying TVs if you don't get every title you want in the exact format you want?

I certainly wouldn't.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by octagon

I would think your options would be obvious: you could buy the digital release or you could not buy the digital release.

What does that have to do with TVs disappearing? Are you going to stop buying TVs if you don't get every title you want in the exact format you want?

I certainly wouldn't.

Why are some titles not getting a blu release? (This is relevant to the discussion)

[malakaheso]

Originally Posted by Scarface32

Actually not entirely true. It was recently discovered at a tech conference that 14-17 year olds spend money like water. They don't have bills; no mortgage, no car payments, no utility bills, no taxes, etc. Choosing not to spend money on movies doesn't mean they don't have the money, they just choose to spend it on other things like clothes, phones, etc. This was discovered because more and more young people are spending money to develop tech with the future plan of later selling it to Google or one of the other big companies.

Yes, they are choosing to spend their parents money on something else instead.

Having said that, the CEO of Criterion recently said in a podcast that they are big with college kids who buy their films using their parents credit cards etc.

When I was in high school in the 90's, I only knew a handful of people that bought videos. Almost everyone I knew had a cd collection, however. So this is not necessarily a new thing. The video sell through market was nowhere as big as the dvd one ended up becoming, and it was a tiny market in most countries with few exceptions. The only films that sold well here back in those days were children's films and some blockbusters, which pretty much reflects the spending habits today.

In short, the market for physical media, at least in the case of film, has contracted to the point where it basically resembles the market that existed 20 years ago in a pre-dvd era. But since we live in very different times today--i.e in terms of corporate expectations of profit--the question of how long the studios will tolerate a much lower rate of profit on their discs remains unknown.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Why are some titles not getting a blu release? (This is relevant to the discussion)

It depends on the title and the studio. Many titles don't have up-to-date HD masters (and some never will...upscales are as good as many titles will ever get). Some studios are willing to license or release their older existing masters (see MGM and the Kino Studio Classic Line). Others (like Warner) won't release BDs unless they have materials they believe are BD ready.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by octagon

It depends on the title and the studio. Many titles don't have up-to-date HD masters (and some never will...upscales are as good as many titles will ever get). Some studios are willing to license or release their older existing masters (see MGM and the Kino Studio Classic Line). Others (like Warner) won't release BDs unless they have materials they believe are BD ready.

Ok, what about new films. Films that have a HD master?

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Ok, what about new films. Films that have a HD master?

Like what?

[feeling22]

Originally Posted by Jake2104

Im 17 so I guess I can give a good insight into the way new generations thinks about and watches movies. I do buy blu-rays (just discs in general) of my favorite movies as I like to recreate the cinema experience at home instead of watching on a small screen. The never watch movies on my smart phone, and only do watch some on my iPad or Laptop when Im away from home.

That being said, I am the only one that I know that buys discs, everyone else my age streams movies, not even legal streaming like Netflix or iTunes, they use illegal streaming sites or just download them outright from torrents, as what has been mentioned in this thread they think of movies as just disposable entertainment and is not worth paying for.

So really why people are debating physical to streaming, note that most people in from the new generation streaming is done for free and the reason they are not getting blu-ray's or physical disk's is because they don't want to pay for movies in general, which is a bigger problem for the entertainment industry.

This actually leads to where streaming is today as the studios try to convince people to pay for movies by giving them a convent option (iTunes, Vudu etc) or a cheap option (Netflix). But the problem is the mind set of my generation has already been set on movies are not something they should have to pay for. Heck even some of my friends don't go to the cinema anymore cause they can either torrent a cam or wait 2 months and get a good copy to watch for free at home.

Hollywood needs to track down where the movies are leaking early, usually the ones with hong kong subtitles. It sucks seeing a movie in theatres and having it pop up online 1-2 weeks later. I know Universal's summer slate all leaked pretty early. It would be nice to see torrenting being taken serious here. I always see leaked movie threads get bumped or people listing them in the "what did you just watch?" thread.. like it's not even in theatres anymore or on digital yet. But I guess that's okay here.

Doing the whole "own it on digital 2 weeks before blu-ray" thing they're doing now is also killing them. Because once it's released digital it's online in HD minutes later. So these perfectly good HD rips are out there while us actual film fans have to wait around 2 weeks for our copies.

[Todd Tomorrow]

Originally Posted by feeling22

Hollywood needs to track down where the movies are leaking early, usually the ones with hong kong subtitles.

You honestly think that they aren't trying ? Unfortunately that's very difficult and where organised crime in foreign countries is concerned, it's pretty much impossible.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Why are some titles not getting a blu release? (This is relevant to the discussion)

This continues to be a silly argument.

Everyone knows why some films/tv shows make it to blu-ray and some don't. The powers that be decide that a certain film won't sell enough copies to justify the release (sometimes they're right, sometimes they're wrong), so it's not released to disc. There are tons of films being remastered and sold to tv stations for HD broadcast, but not released to disc. What do you think people are watching these remastered HD cable broadcasts on - their phones?

The only thing I can see coming perhaps is sites charging a little bit more for a higher quality 1080p/4k download - like charge whatever price for a low-bitrate 720p download and charge a tiny bit more for a high-bitrate 1080p/4k file. They do that with music on some sites - pay whatever price for .mp3, or a fraction more for lossless .flac.

But this has nothing to do with the death of television. Millions of people sit down every night after work and watch tv. Millions of people rent from Redbox or Netflix. These people aren't going to stare at their phones all evening after a hard day at work, many of whom have been already staring at their phones half the day as a part of their work.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by feeling22

Hollywood needs to track down where the movies are leaking early, usually the ones with hong kong subtitles. It sucks seeing a movie in theatres and having it pop up online 1-2 weeks later. I know Universal's summer slate all leaked pretty early. It would be nice to see torrenting being taken serious here. I always see leaked movie threads get bumped or people listing them in the "what did you just watch?" thread.. like it's not even in theatres anymore or on digital yet. But I guess that's okay here.

Doing the whole "own it on digital 2 weeks before blu-ray" thing they're doing now is also killing them. Because once it's released digital it's online in HD minutes later. So these perfectly good HD rips are out there while us actual film fans have to wait around 2 weeks for our copies.

Do you really think the people that are happy watching a leaked "cam" release or a rip will go spend $12 to see it in the theatre if the leak isn't available? Do you really think leaked releases affect box-office numbers? Anybody who thinks that is delusional, including the studios. Those people are not their customers. They were never going to spend the money anyways. Nobody says, "well, I was going to go to the cinema with my friends and watch it in 3D and Dolby Atmos, but it's online so I'll just download it instead and watch it on my phone". Nobody does this. Those who are happy watching a rip were never going to go to the theatre to see it anyways. All the highest-grossing blockbusters are online shortly after theatrical release - yet somehow Jurassic World made about a billion dollars worldwide. But how could this possibly be when people can just download cams? Hollywood has been playing this card for a long time and it's a weak hand. They should focus more on their customers - the ones that do spend money - delivering quality products with less hassle - and focus less on what they can't control. Some small game companies are finally starting to figure this out - focus less on piracy that they can't control anyways, and focus instead on delivering a quality product that may entice more people to pay for it.

[gates70]

Originally Posted by Tony208

I've gone mostly digital when it comes to video games, the convenience just wins out there.

Apples and oranges. Video games are the same graphics whether it's disc or digital.

Originally Posted by Jake2104

Im 17 so I guess I can give a good insight into the way new generations thinks about and watches movies. I do buy blu-rays (just discs in general) of my favorite movies as I like to recreate the cinema experience at home instead of watching on a small screen. The never watch movies on my smart phone, and only do watch some on my iPad or Laptop when Im away from home.

That being said, I am the only one that I know that buys discs, everyone else my age streams movies, not even legal streaming like Netflix or iTunes, they use illegal streaming sites or just download them outright from torrents, as what has been mentioned in this thread they think of movies as just disposable entertainment and is not worth paying for.

So really why people are debating physical to streaming, note that most people in from the new generation streaming is done for free and the reason they are not getting blu-ray's or physical disk's is because they don't want to pay for movies in general, which is a bigger problem for the entertainment industry.

This actually leads to where streaming is today as the studios try to convince people to pay for movies by giving them a convent option (iTunes, Vudu etc) or a cheap option (Netflix). But the problem is the mind set of my generation has already been set on movies are not something they should have to pay for. Heck even some of my friends don't go to the cinema anymore cause they can either torrent a cam or wait 2 months and get a good copy to watch for free at home.

Originally Posted by octagon

What's depressing about it? They're seventeen. Seventeen year olds have always been cheap (primarily because they've always been broke).

Hate to break it to you guys, but it's far from only kids that do this. I work in the informatics world and most guys I know, except me, download their movies for free from torrent sites. They couldn't be bothered to pay for them as they only want to see it once. The problem is that they are easily accessible.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by malakaheso

But since we live in very different times today--i.e in terms of corporate expectations of profit--the question of how long the studios will tolerate a much lower rate of profit on their discs remains unknown.

What's their alternative? Have no home media format and make no profit on it at all? Talk about throwing out the baby with the bathwater. If they expect more money than the economy can support, then so be it.