Oh noes teh sky is falling!

[wonderer99]

Originally Posted by Wiidesire

I agree, but not with the time frame.

Now is the perfect time to kill DVD. We've got Blu-ray as the baseline for the mainstream + it's now really cheap to produce the 50 GB Dual Layer Blu-ray discs and we've also got the new premium 4k Ultra HD Blu-ray for the enthusiasts.

Well I would argue that now would be the worst time to quit dvd as a format. The only alternative to dvd right now for the masses is blu and at this point in blu rays life (over 10 years) we really don't want the masses to start buying into it along the lines of DVD sales. It's too old a format now to be mass adopted and would have a detrimental effect on better tech that is ready to go like 4k. A massive push for 4k coinciding with studios dropping dvd is the only real hope we have for one last popular physical media outing.

[bruceames]

You don't just drop a format that's bringing in 65% of the revenue. That's not a option. These studios are businesses and they have shareholders to please.

And it can be argued that offering consumers a choice of formats maximizes their revenue stream. This mentality that there should only be one physical format is soo 90's. The world is a much different place now. Choices are a good thing, not bad. They will drop DVD only if/when it stops selling (and likely it would be select titles only, as over 75% of releases are still DVD only).

[Mighty Max]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

You don't just drop a format that's bringing in 65% of the revenue. That's not a option. These studios are businesses and they have shareholders to please.

And it can be argued that offering consumers a choice of formats maximizes their revenue stream. This mentality that there should only be one physical format is soo 90's. The world is a much different place now. Choices are a good thing, not bad. They will drop DVD only if/when it stops selling (and likely it would be select titles only, as over 75% of releases are still DVD only).

VHS was outselling dvd until the sudden stop of VHS production.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by Mighty Max

VHS was outselling dvd until the sudden stop of VHS production.

Quite the opposite. VHS was produced until 2006, by which time it was less than 10% of sales. DVD was outselling VHS 3 years before that.



Besides sales, there were also two other compelling reasons to drop VHS.

1) They were not backwards compatible. All Blu-ray players will play DVD.

2) VHS tapes were much more costly to produce.

So since none of those motivations exists, the studios have no real reason to drop DVD, until such time as sales dictate it, just like most other consumer products.

[wonderer99]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

You don't just drop a format that's bringing in 65% of the revenue. That's not a option. These studios are businesses and they have shareholders to please.

And it can be argued that offering consumers a choice of formats maximizes their revenue stream. This mentality that there should only be one physical format is soo 90's. The world is a much different place now. Choices are a good thing, not bad. They will drop DVD only if/when it stops selling (and likely it would be select titles only, as over 75% of releases are still DVD only).

VHS was dropped once DVD arrived and i'm pretty sure that was pretty much the only home entertainment option at the time. Consumers have too many choices nowadays so unless one physical format is dropped for a newer one any future physical media will struggle to take off. Simply, as long as studios support DVD 4K has little chance of becoming mainstream and I genuinely believe 4K is our last chance at physical media for movies.

Edit: Just seen your reply. Its a vicious circle. Your saying people wont adopt another media until DVD sales drop but masses are not going to adopt another format unless DVD is phased out by studios. There is no financial reason studios cant do this. Taking digital downloads and streaming out of the equation for a second the masses will stick with the collection they have already amassed until they dont have the option to purchase it anymore. Your argument that studios will stick with DVD as long as it makes money is pointless because it is only making the most money due to the fact studios have not supported Blu ray or pushed it remotely as hard as they did DVD. Studios will still make the same amount of sales if they quit DVD tomorrow, it would just be on the blu ray format. Blu players are very cheap and are compatible with DVD so it would not upset anyone really to quit DVD at this point. Studios would not lose out and people happy with their DVD collection can still enjoy them while buying future blu releases. Like I said before though, to quit DVD now would be a massive blow for the adoption of 4K as everyone would jump on blu (which should have happened 6 years ago) and would refuse to adopt 4K so soon after.

The main issue is that tech is just moving too damn fast these days. People wont adopt anything if they keep hearing about the next new thing arriving. We are already hearing of 8K TV's while there is still only one 4K player available at a premium.

[stargazeruk]

Originally Posted by wonderer99

The main issue is that tech is just moving too damn fast these days. People wont adopt anything if they keep hearing about the next new thing arriving. We are already hearing of 8K TV's while there is still only one 4K player available at a premium.

That I feel is the overall problem. Tech moving to fast and manufactures seem to think expensive tech get replaced every 2 years and with TVs and DVD/blu-ray players that is not the case.

Phones might because of how the contracts are handled and that is the only exception I seen but TVs and blu-ray players defiantly don't. I upgraded my TV after having it 8 years simply cause it was a big upgrade for me and one I did not regret and I got quite a few years out my TV and would of gone on a bit longer had the 4K TVs not been out.

For me It was upgrading from a normal 1080p TV to a 4k with 3D capabilities and smart TV functionality. The 3D alone did not push me to upgrade, nor did the smart since I known 4k was round the corner and my normal 1080p cost about a thousand pounds I saw it as roughly 10 year + TV.

Now with TVs getting HDR that does not fuss me and not really going to upgrade for that and 8K I will say what would be the point.

Most normal people would replace the tech when it reaches their designated life span they feel they had value out of it or when the product dies and needs replacing and even then they would look at some of the features and will the TV do what they want it to do and the cheapest price.

[steve1971]

One of biggest barriers to 4K success? Streaming, Dvd, Blu ray and the general public not giving a damn about 4K/HDR. Sorry but dvd as long as its making the studios a profit aint going anywhere and if it wasnt they would have phased it out a long time ago with Blu ray. Let's be honest and that is Blu ray hasnt even caught on and why is that? Because again the general public dont care. They are happy with dvd and streaming. My wife and I stopped into Target and Walmart this past weekend and the dvd isle was bigger then the Blu ray isle in both stores! In fact at my local Walmart the Blu ray isle has been cut down to a single sided isle with dvd taking up the rest of the space. Alot of the Blu ray movies we saw were being put into the cheapo dvd bin along with dvd's!!! In 3 stores we went to we didnt see one 4K movie not one. If this is happening to Blu ray what makes people think the same thing wont happen to 4K movies? It dont look promising for 4K in my opinion.

[willie1959]

Number one reason $$$$$$$

Number 2 Until 4k players come out for PC use forget it. Most of us have monitors and TV's below 40 inches , personal choice.

Number 3 KODI and other free streaming services and screen recorders. Why buy media when this is easier????

Record it and save movies on hard drives.



I have thousands of Laserdiscs, DVDS and Blurays.

Some movies will never be released on bluray let alone 4k bluray.

Another media no way. enough is enough

I will buy new 4k scans on bluray not 4k blurays.

[Rocket Richard]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

Upscaled DVD for many looked almost as good from their normal viewing distance and screen size so there was no compelling reason to upgrade.

I never saw a difference from DVD to upscale DVD. Found that to be gimmicky. Nowhere near BR.

But 4K is quite noticeably better than Blu-ray. It's not gimmicky like upscale. There is a huge difference. Especially the bigger the screen size.

[4K fanatic]

I agree, bigger screen size is essential, if you have a 40" set, I'd forget about 4K- unless you're sitting 4' away. This is why if UHD disc format is to succeed they need to push The Avengers, Avatar, and other blockbusters with a full screen ratio and need to add 3D ASAP to specs. They're fracturing a market into the smallest possible user base and that is so stupid I cannot fathom whom decided to not have 4K 3D discs from the onset. Right now, I couldn't care cuz the price point is way too high for me to adopt. I'd rather rent a UHD movie from vudu on my Roku 4. If there's no updated Xbox or PS4 announced with UHD disc capability this June, or whenever E3 is, this format will have an utterly hard time being successful. I want 4K UHD resolution to succeed but I'm only buying movies with full aspect ratio- until I can test sitting in a kitchen chair to see how close I need to sit to benefit. Wouldn't most people who came into your home look at a couch or lazy boy chair 5' from ur 65" tv and say wtf is going on there? To follow up as well, wouldn't you get a headache watching 1080i broadcast from that close- maybe even 1080p? UHD alliance had better put the tech into updated PS4 at minimal updated cost- maybe even console launch price cost to give me UHD rentals from PS store. I love movies, got my minor in college in film snd media studies, but no one else I know likes to rewatched movies they've seen on a regular basis. I used to rewatched Pulp Fiction at least 3 times per year when my brother still lived in state but now that he's moved, idk anyone who cares to rewatch movies they've seen, not to mention cares about 1080p vs 3840. Until they integrate it into a game console snd I can see in investing in 2 lazy boy electric recliners in addition to a console is worth it, looks like I'll stick to Netflix 4K via the tv app,plus Vudu UHD, and FandangoNow 4K via my Roku 4. Idk if Netflix will add UHD disc rentals to their portfolio considering their strategy is to move away from disc rentals and if they do, they'll add $4 to the ( idk exact amount) they already up charge for blu Ray access. Seems like a big investment without enough content to support it at this stage. Check back in a year or two to see if it panned out.

[Rocket Richard]

Ya, you’d think they would just stop making anything smaller than a 50” TV. Very few people would complain... Especially now that they are so thin looking. I find 50” TVs look too small now.

[I KEEL YOU]

Originally Posted by Rocket Richard

Ya, you’d think they would just stop making anything smaller than a 50” TV. Very few people would complain... Especially now that they are so thin looking. I find 50” TVs look too small now.

What TV stands do you people who have all these giant 70+ inch TVs use? I have this one, which is relatively big:



I can't have a TV that is bigger than 60 inches standing on it. Maybe I could (depending on how wide the stand of the TV itself is), but then I wouldn't be able to use the left part of the TV stand properly, which I also need. Or do you just mount your TVs on the wall? I don't think that I could do that on the wall from where my bed and chair is.

Right now I have a 46 inch TV and the next one I plan on buying will be either a 55 or a 60, depending on the price and whether the stand of the TV will be too wide.

[spectre08]

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

What TV stands do you people who have all these giant 70+ inch TVs use? I have this one, which is relatively big:



I can't have a TV that is bigger than 60 inches standing on it. Maybe I could (depending on how wide the stand of the TV itself is), but then I wouldn't be able to use the left part of the TV stand properly, which I also need. Or do you just mount your TVs on the wall? I don't think that I could do that on the wall from where my bed and chair is.

Right now I have a 46 inch TV and the next one I plan on buying will be either a 55 or a 60, depending on the price and whether the stand of the TV will be too wide.

TV stand? My 55" weighs less than 50lbs. That sucker is hung on the wall.

[ArmyOfDarknessAW]

I find that almost everyone that hangs a TV on the wall it is too high for my tastes. My TV came with a wall mount, but I have no intent to use it. plus hanging stuff on plaster is a pain in the ass. I just use some bookshelf thing from Ikea on its side for my TV stand.

[azmodeous]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of mounting my tv on the walll. Every time I go and watch at a friennd who has theirs wall mounted my neck hurts after a while as everyone seems to think they have to hang it so high. It's highly uncomfortable to watch that way in my opinion.

[larrs]

Originally Posted by ArmyOfDarknessAW

I find that almost everyone that hangs a TV on the wall it is too high for my tastes. My TV came with a wall mount, but I have no intent to use it. plus hanging stuff on plaster is a pain in the ass. I just use some bookshelf thing from Ikea on its side for my TV stand.

Absolutely. Research has proven that a TV screen should actually be eye level or slightly lower for less fatigue, which is part of the reason theaters went to stadium seating rather than raising the height of the screen. Putting a TV over the fireplace ( once super popular but fading now) is the worst.

[Rocket Richard]

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

What TV stands do you people who have all these giant 70+ inch TVs use? I have this one, which is relatively big:

I use the same glass/steel stand that held my 50” Plasma for my (160 lbs) 80” TV, and it hasn’t broken yet....

[Krelldog1977]

Originally Posted by larrs

Absolutely. Research has proven that a TV screen should actually be eye level or slightly lower for less fatigue, which is part of the reason theaters went to stadium seating rather than raising the height of the screen. Putting a TV over the fireplace ( once super popular but fading now) is the worst.

I totally agree. Some friends and relatives of mine think my set is mounted too low.

The screen should be eye level when seated, end of story.

[DA1745]

Originally Posted by wonderer99

Edit: Just seen your reply. Its a vicious circle. Your saying people wont adopt another media until DVD sales drop but masses are not going to adopt another format unless DVD is phased out by studios. There is no financial reason studios cant do this.

Your argument that studios will stick with DVD as long as it makes money is pointless because it is only making the most money due to the fact studios have not supported Blu ray or pushed it remotely as hard as they did DVD. Studios will still make the same amount of sales if they quit DVD tomorrow, it would just be on the blu ray format.

Blu players are very cheap and are compatible with DVD so it would not upset anyone really to quit DVD at this point. Studios would not lose out and people happy with their DVD collection can still enjoy them while buying future blu releases. Like I said before though, to quit DVD now would be a massive blow for the adoption of 4K as everyone would jump on blu (which should have happened 6 years ago) and would refuse to adopt 4K so soon after.

The main issue is that tech is just moving too damn fast these days. People wont adopt anything if they keep hearing about the next new thing arriving. We are already hearing of 8K TV's while there is still only one 4K player available at a premium.

I have enjoyed catching up in reading on the last dozen or so pages of this thread.

I highlighted a few lines above because perhaps you are giving the general (non tech savvy, non-movie lover, non-deal lovers) public far too much credit. I think that is what we or most of us would hope would happen. If say all the DVD factories disappeared tomorrow (as to the why that happens - lets just say POOF; and like they said in Austin Powers about time traveling...don't you at home focus too much on that either) that the masses would simply pick up and carry on buying Blu-rays instead of DVDs.

However, I see and speak with relatives, friends, people in stores asking questions like Blu-ray just came out yesterday? Too many people are confused by DVD and Blu-ray, many think they are competing formats (because of the HD-DVD vs Blu-ray). Too often people ask yeah, but is it gonna last? You seem quite certain that people wouldn't miss too many beats and that they would pick essentially where they left off, except now they would just buy the Blu-ray instead of the non-existent DVD.

I don't think that perspective acknowledges this enormous education gap that exists out there because as different as the opinions are on Blu-ray.com they are almost all W/I a tech bubble - everyone (or damn near everyone) here knows and can tell you +/- between Blu-rays and DVDs. That's not true with a huge swath of people. Those same people will go into stores & pay virtually the same amount for a cheapo DVD player to replace their broken one as they could pay for a Blu-ray player because they simply don't know a Blu-ray player can play both. Now I'm not excusing that ignorance, but I sure understand it in people that are practically afraid of technology, and the industries did a poor job of clearing up and educating average folks.

There could have been some great synergistic pushes years back by both the Movie Studios and electronics makers to really educate the public through "old stream media" TV commercials, Radio Ads, as well as online digital marketing especially when Blu-ray players prices where high and could justify some advertising budgets, but those opportunities were squandered. The studios default reaction to new home theater tech is fear!! (VHS was going to be the end of the industry, DVD - Piracy will ruin us all, Blu-ray the quality is too good no one will come to the theaters anymore, 3D Blu-ray...) they aren't exactly supportive of reasonably priced home studio quality options **cough** 3D surcharge **cough** either as it cuts into what they see as their primary market (movie theaters).

To that end, the studios are also pragmatic about what is working for them at the time and because there is entirely too much uncertainty as to what average Jane and John would do if DVDs disappeared there is zero chance of them doing anything we would consider "logical." IF they had been proactive with the electronics makers & educating the public they could have done a phased out transition to Blu-ray but the financial reasons to not pull the plug on DVD are very real. The geeks motto about firmware upgrading - If it's working stupid don't try to fix it. They have every incentive not to tinker and risk when the current model is working. They truly don't care if we at home see a movie in as best a possible way as we could (in fact the Studios have long held a contrary position to that).
There is not going to be a Governmental mandate to upgrade, the studios & equipment makers farked up educating the general masses. It falls to us the geeks and the movie lovers to educate as many of those poor movie quality misser-out-ers on what they need to know.

Would people calm down, educate themselves online and understand it's a simple transition to Blu-ray and make the jump? No doubt that some would get a clue but the studios would be betting on people who hadn't gotten a clue in the last 8+years to suddenly figure it out, it's not like they don't have other options though? Piracy would be a HUGE concern for the studios as it already is what they blame so much on today (at least all the crappy re-makes doing so poorly those are for sure pirates fault lol just kidding - but they aren't).
I'm sure the studios would be THRILLED if DVD cessation pushed more into the legitimate (paying) streaming camp and away from Blu-ray altogether. Lets face it, the reason many of us buy physical media is in the case of Blu-ray it's superior quality, that is not the argument from DVD buyers obviously. The other reason I still buy DVD is if I can't find something on Blu-ray (in most cases I buy used but I digress). So there isn't anything holding these average DVD buyers back from going to a streaming service and skipping Blu-ray altogether, they aren't going to complain about the quality. But again that is another area with an even bigger uneducated swath of people - for good reason in many cases as the Digital streaming landscape is far more fragmented and complicated than a simple DVD vs Blu-ray choice) and the studios could never be sure they wouldn't loose out far more by killing off DVD.

[azmodeous]

There's also a large portion of the population that swear up and down they can not see any difference between the 2 formats; my girlfriend is one of those people. I live in a relatively poorer area and I'm not sure if it is genuine that they can't see anything or if they are mentally convincing themselves out of a desire not to spend the money to upgrade. I think it may be a mixture as it's not uncommon to hear conversations like this while I'm out: "put dat back, dat brue ray, dat spensive."

There's also the streaming angle; people are genuinely lazy and would rather not use the effort to get up and grab a disk off the shelf when they can press a button on a remote and get decent quality hd streams of shows and movies. I've always been a stickler for physical media because no matter how good an hd stream can look, the blu-ray is always going to look better. That being said, even I am highly impressed with how good 4K Dolby Vision looked on Netflix! If this kind of quality becomes the norm over the next couple of years as more people get 4K televisions, physical media will become mich more of a niche market than it is today. I'll still stick with it obviously as I like having personal ownership of my films/tv shows.