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Old 11-04-2016, 06:49 PM   #9761
ElvisForever ElvisForever is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX
Film is an "analog" medium. As for analog videotape sources look at TV programs from the 60s to the 90s on DVD, they are much better looking than VHS.
I forgot about this statement.

The question isn't whether those video taped shows are better on VHS or DVD. You aren't comparing apples to apples.

First of all, the Jefferson't looks like CRAP on DVD because it was video taped. If you went back to the original video tape source, and played the original quad tape I will laugh you out the door if you think the DVD has got all it could get.

If you did a fresh transfer of the video tape and compared, I am telling you now that the video tape will look better because it is closer to the true resolution. Old NTSC standards just don't look right on DVD because of the low encodes. If you record on SP quality using an 8 hour tape you will be surprised just how good those old shows can look!

Now Bluray is another story because of the way it can use the higher bit rates compared with the superior storage. So the real question would be which would look better, those video taped shows on DVD or the video taped shows on bluray. I have explained the answer on that.

Remember, a lot of those newer shows like Seinfeld were captured on film so yes obviously they look better on DVD because of the way it was digitally captured of the FILM that had more resolution to get. Your examples of the 60's shows and 80's shows on film just don't follow with my point.
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Old 11-04-2016, 09:24 PM   #9762
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Originally Posted by ElvisForever View Post
Remember, a lot of those newer shows like Seinfeld were captured on film so yes obviously they look better on DVD because of the way it was digitally captured of the FILM that had more resolution to get. Your examples of the 60's shows and 80's shows on film just don't follow with my point.
Your points are incomprehensible & wrong.


Sorry you take it as an insult but your tech knowledge is seriously misinformed here.
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Old 11-04-2016, 09:38 PM   #9763
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Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post
Your points are incomprehensible & wrong.


Sorry you take it as an insult but your tech knowledge is seriously misinformed here.
Ok, whatever you say. Although here is a nice post for you to check out written on this very forum. This poster like me has some experience with transfers and knows that it isn't that easy. Again, in case you missed it, broadcast video tape is even harder to get right. DVD's storage capacity just doesn't cut it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phatrat1982 View Post
Don't listen to the naysayers if you really want to put you VHS videos onto Blu Ray it is a good idea. I do this as a business and people are always impressed by the results. First thing is it will NOT be "true hd" in any sense of the word. BUT it is possible to get a GOOD picture and the naysayers don't understand anything beyond what they read on wikipedia which is filled with garbage anyways.

There are myths out there the naysayers don't understand that you need to ignore.


Fact is YES VHS is an analog signal so in order to get the video onto a Blu Ray you will need a way to first turn that analog signal into a digital video. A VHS Camcorder with digital outputs is one way to do this but those were expensive when they were made and still so today plus hard to find.

You could use a video capture card or tv tuner card to play back the tape and record the video onto the PC as if watching TV and using a DVR like Tivo, that is the most common and cost effective method.


VHS, is NOT limited to just 320 x 240 resolution like people like to say, it has multiple resolutions based on the record speed and the type of player used and type of cassette used. the 320 x 240 res is the most common cited res for VHS but that is not the only res you can get out of VHS, truth is if you used SLP you are recording at nearly half that resolution.


Also VHS is analog so bitrates are a bit tricky, just because it is low res does not mean low quality nor does it mean low bitrate. IF the picture is clean on the tape you are going to copy to the computer you can get a clean digital picture on the PC. First you will need the right type of capture card, specifically one with S-Video inputs, Composite (Yellow) video and Coaxial (UHF/VHF) will give lower quality video.


Second you will need a VCR that also has S-Video out, a DVD/VCR combo is NOT going to work most of those the S-video is tied to the DVD side and refuse to send a VHS signal over that cable don't ask why it makes no sense but for some reason that is how the manufacturers did things.

You will also want a player with Digital Tracking, HQ, HiFi, and Super VHS if possible as well as S-Video out puts and any Digital NR and extra features you can get out of the thing, A top of the line $2,000 VCR from the late 90's is what you are looking for, you can get them for less than $30 on ebay even the top of the line professional grade stuff since VHS is outdated.

Now once you have the GOOD quality VCR and a GOOD quality capture card preferably with some quality editing software like Sony Vegas or some other high end software you can capture a decent quality video, assuming the tape is good quality to begin with.

Do not worry about matching resolution to resolution, in other words if your tape is theoretically 320 x 240 which you won't know for sure if it is or not anyways, you don't need to capture at that resolution to get a good video. Analog to Digital conversion is not a straight process like digital to digital is. The tape stores the data using frequencies of hi and low, instead of zero and one like the computer. Analog has a range of data where as digital is either on or off no in-between.

So if you have a GOOD quality tape (meaning there is no major wear the picture is still clear there is no fuzz or noise, there is no jittiniess, no squigly lines, none of that crap you are good to go)

When you go to capture the video use these settings as they will give better results than trying to 'upconvert' the video.


IF the picture looks clear and there are no major artifacts set the capture resolution to 640 x 480 which is SD (VHS uses overscan so even though the resolution is lower than SDTV they compensate for it and you get a full picture.)

Basically the computer is going to create duplicate pixels of every pixels that it reads from the source, no this will not increase picture detail but it will maintain the source quality if you use the right settings.

Bitrate, use a HIGH bitrate and create a LARGE OVERSIZED file. Trust me do THIS no matter what.

I would say use the HIGHEST bitrate your software will allow, don't go over 18mbps but get as close to that as you can, I mean it as CLOSE as you can.

Also do a 2-pass conversion to give the software more data to work with.

Capture the video using MPEG-2 using a custom profile setting the res to 640 x480 and the highest bitrate you can get. Do not worry about file sizes it will BE HUGE but that is NOT what you will have when you are finished.

As for audio, IF you VCR has Red/White audio out, USE them, get a capture card with red/white inputs or get one of those stereo Y cables from Radio shack that has red/white on one end and a standard stereo plug on the other end (the plug is the same size as your headphone jacks on your ipod or walkman etc and should plug right into your PC audio in)

Make sure the VCR has STEREO capabilities and preferable HiFi or even better Dolby Digital audio (this goes back to the player of course)

Next you want to set the audio to be 2 channel STEREO using a 320 kbps bitrate, 48 khz sample rate and MPEG audio (either MP3 or MPEG 2 your choice, MPEG 2 is better mp3 is more common) If you want you can do AC3 also but it won't make a difference because the source audio will not be super high quality anyways (audio on VHS is a hell of a lot better than picture quality though and most people tend to forget how rich in sound that can be)

Now once the video is captured (you will need to tell your software to split the output file into 4GB increments or smaller and make sure you have somewhere between 20 and 40 GB to devote to the project (NO you will NOT end up with that large file but CAPTURING you DO need a large high bitrate file.)


Then once the mpeg 2 is done recording open your favorite media player (windows media player, vlc, divx, nero showtime what ever0 and play back your video, IF it looks good enough to you then you are ready to render THAT into your Blu Ray file.

You will need software that can burn BRD and you will need all the appropriate codecs.


You are going to render SD quality video for the Blu Ray but you are going to keep the highest bitrate it will allow you to have. In digital bitrate is more important than resolution especially when going from an analog source to begin with. If you Blu Ray player has a 12mbps SD video to upconvert vs. a less than 1mbps SD video to upconvert the 12mbps video will look better even if the 1mbps video is higher resolution.

When you go from MPEG2 to Blu Ray try and use AVC, MPEG4 or one one of the more advanced Blu Ray codecs not the standard MPEG2 you rendered the video using. This will maintain your quality but create a much smaller file size. Also if you DID render using AC3 and you managed to get a high bitrate and the audio sounds pretty good on the computer when going from there to Blu you can use one of the more advanced audio codecs and it will maintain some of the quality you captured and still sound fantastic in your player.


Now remember this will yield SIMILAR picture quality to what was already on the VHS but will last forever, never degrade and will play back on your Blu Ray player (which could impress your friends in and of itself which is always a plus)

You do not need to render the video at the quoted 320 x 240 resolution because analog to digital is not a 1:1 math equation for one and another thing the computer is a hell of a lot smarter than the VCR is.

IF you want to clean up the video by applying some DNR or adjusting the EQ, levels, color depth, etc feel free to play around with those until you get the best looking video you can. Remember it won't give better detail or quality than the tape but it will look just as good 100 views from now where the tape will look worse in 5 views from now. However it is a complicated, demanding and time consuming process (which is the SAME process to go from VHS to DVD as it is VHS to Blu Ray so no matter what it will requrie the same ammount of worth, time, money, energy, etc. So it's really up to you to decide if the investment is worth the payoff. Remember those DVD's will last forever too and unless your capturing 4 plus hours of MPEG2 video you might not need the full capacity of a Blu Ray disc. Now I should mention that when you capture from the tape TO the MPEG2 you will still need to re-render the video using DVD quality standards (same res but bitrate will be capped at 8.5mbps) Your target would then be a DVD9 NOT a DVD5.
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Old 11-22-2016, 10:52 PM   #9764
eiknarf eiknarf is online now
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Ok. Anyone wanna fly me to Florida!?
My long time closest friend has been in Florida a decade. He just sent me video through Facebook Messenger all proud of his new 4K TV.

The first thing I said was "You better not have any RCA cables hooked up to it". He asked, "What's that?" So I sent him a picture. Then he responds with video of the rear of the TV, and sure enough, one yellow, one white and one red cable are being used!

So the average dude out there is using 1995 technology on their 2016 TV. I'm sure he's not the only one.

Turns out he's using a Roku and it only has RCA Out.

Last edited by eiknarf; 11-22-2016 at 10:56 PM.
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Old 11-22-2016, 10:53 PM   #9765
DaBargainHunta DaBargainHunta is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eiknarf View Post
Turns out he's using a Roku and it only has RCA Out.
How old is his Roku? Most of the new ones have only HDMI now.
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Old 11-22-2016, 10:57 PM   #9766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eiknarf View Post
Ok. Anyone wanna fly me to Florida!?
My long time closest friend has been in Florida a decade. He just sent me video through Facebook Messenger all proud of his new 4K TV.

The first thing I said was "You better not have any RCA cables hooked up to it". He asked, "What's that?" So I sent him a picture. Then he responds with video of the rear of the TV, and sure enough, one yellow, one white and one red cable are being used!

So the average dude out there is using 1995 technology on their 2016 TV. I'm sure he's not the only one.

Turns out he's using a Roku and it only has RCA Out.
I would'nt be surprised if 90% of 4K TVs sold are not used to their fullest.
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Old 11-22-2016, 10:58 PM   #9767
eiknarf eiknarf is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBargainHunta View Post
How old is his Roku? Most of the new ones have only HDMI now.
That's exactly what I said when I asked him to show me video of his Roku Box
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Old 11-22-2016, 11:01 PM   #9768
DaBargainHunta DaBargainHunta is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eiknarf View Post
That's exactly what I said when I asked him to show me video of his Roku Box
Tell him to upgrade his Roku too. Sounds like he has one from 2009 or something. They are so cheap now, so no reason to stick with an ancient model.
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Old 11-22-2016, 11:07 PM   #9769
AmishParadise AmishParadise is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eiknarf View Post
Ok. Anyone wanna fly me to Florida!?
My long time closest friend has been in Florida a decade. He just sent me video through Facebook Messenger all proud of his new 4K TV.

The first thing I said was "You better not have any RCA cables hooked up to it". He asked, "What's that?" So I sent him a picture. Then he responds with video of the rear of the TV, and sure enough, one yellow, one white and one red cable are being used!

So the average dude out there is using 1995 technology on their 2016 TV. I'm sure he's not the only one.

Turns out he's using a Roku and it only has RCA Out.
Oh my. Time to upgrade the Roku as well. And let me guess, they don't own a Blu-ray player. If so, perhaps buy them a Blu-ray player for Christmas or dare I say, an Ultra HD Blu-ray player. After all, you can't put a price on friendship.
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Old 11-22-2016, 11:33 PM   #9770
eiknarf eiknarf is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmishParadise View Post
Oh my. Time to upgrade the Roku as well. And let me guess, they don't own a Blu-ray player. If so, perhaps buy them a Blu-ray player for Christmas or dare I say, an Ultra HD Blu-ray player. After all, you can't put a price on friendship.
Exactly.
He has a DVD player.
But he didn't hook that up. I told him "Don't you dare!"

It's like, if the average person isn't trying to get the maximum amount of quality from their TV purchase, how does blu-ray or Ultra 4K blu-ray stand a chance?! They buy these 4K TVs and hook up hardware via RCA cables. So odd. There needs to be better education when buying TVs I guess

Last edited by eiknarf; 11-22-2016 at 11:59 PM.
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Old 11-23-2016, 12:04 AM   #9771
SethRex SethRex is offline
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I'm going back to physical media...I'm just going to be putting my disc in folders to save space.
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Old 11-23-2016, 01:07 AM   #9772
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SethRex View Post
I'm going back to physical media...I'm just going to be putting my disc in folders to save space.
So, you tried all the digital route then?
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Old 11-23-2016, 02:33 AM   #9773
SethRex SethRex is offline
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I did the 'Mostly digital route'. But I found myself still buying disc based media so I figured what the hell.
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Old 11-23-2016, 02:38 AM   #9774
Ray Jackson Ray Jackson is offline
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I ditched my Ipod a few years back and started listening to CDs again.

...not kidding.
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Old 11-23-2016, 02:56 AM   #9775
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I ditched my Ipod a few years back and started listening to CDs again.

...not kidding.
I'm still purchasing CDs.

When I was young the marketplace pushed everyone to replace their scratchy old records with the clarity of CD audio. Now the "hip" thing is to go back to LPs? Too late, I got attached to CDs!
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Old 11-23-2016, 03:49 AM   #9776
ElvisForever ElvisForever is offline
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Originally Posted by acroyear2 View Post
I'm still purchasing CDs.

When I was young the marketplace pushed everyone to replace their scratchy old records with the clarity of CD audio. Now the "hip" thing is to go back to LPs? Too late, I got attached to CDs!
CD's are too short for me. I like to listen to full albums and entire artist catalogs.

However, I hate file trees and I hate having to take eyes off the road in the car, and I hate always having to remember to unplug the digital player (flash drive, Ipod...whatever).

My answer, put everything on a bluray in chronological order with no menus so it plays just like a CD..

1 bluray for entire Beatles catalog in at least CD quality or above. I can click through the songs I like without taking eyes off of road (just like a CD), and I don't have to worry about a "playlist".

Great artists don't need playlists. I am a fan of Black Sabbath, so just listen to the entire catalog and don't even move around. Car turns off, by physical default, it picks right up where it left off when you turn it back on (bluray players can actually be unplugged and will still save the spot as long as you don't have menus).

Print cool artwork, and have a much better experience (I spray with coating to make them water proof).

Screw streaming, physical will always be my go to. I love CD's and blurays are the next logical step.
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Old 11-23-2016, 04:15 AM   #9777
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It seems to me like the quality of On Demand movies through my cable subscription has dropped recently. Granted it was never great to begin with, but the amount of smearing, softness and obvious macroblock artifacting is painfully distracting now - not to mention how many titles are cropped (pretty much every WB title, for instance). It's gotten to the point where I sit back further from the TV when I'm watching this stuff. It's a pain because the selection is very good and it's easily the most practical way to rent things now, but in places it borders on unwatchable. Technically HD but so compressed it looks worse than a good DVD.
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Old 11-23-2016, 05:01 AM   #9778
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Are you taking about cable UFAlien? Cable quality has been sinking and Netflix has been improving.
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Old 11-23-2016, 05:02 AM   #9779
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Originally Posted by eiknarf View Post
Exactly.
He has a DVD player.
But he didn't hook that up. I told him "Don't you dare!"

It's like, if the average person isn't trying to get the maximum amount of quality from their TV purchase, how does blu-ray or Ultra 4K blu-ray stand a chance?! They buy these 4K TVs and hook up hardware via RCA cables. So odd. There needs to be better education when buying TVs I guess
So some uncle of a best friend has not figured the cable thing so therefore this is the collapse of physical media???

The better education comes from the longer the media is in play. Bluray is relatively young yet the gotta have it now generation wants to scream the sky is falling while ignoring the fact that bluray adoption is way faster than media that came before despite fierce competition.

Renters generally don't care about quality. So what? They have never dictated the collector's market. If anything the collector's market is stronger than ever.

Let the renters stay ignorant.
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Old 11-23-2016, 05:44 AM   #9780
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElvisForever View Post
The better education comes from the longer the media is in play. Bluray is relatively young yet the gotta have it now generation wants to scream the sky is falling while ignoring the fact that bluray adoption is way faster than media that came before despite fierce competition.
Blu-ray is over 10 years old. DVD was way more successful than Blu-ray within the same time frame (and continues to sell better than Blu-ray).
In 2006 spending on DVD (purchases and rentals) in the United States was approximately $20 Billion. In 2015 spending on both DVD & Blu-ray in the United States was approximately $9 Billion and Blu-ray is less than 40% of that.
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File Type: jpg DEG year-end 2015 chart1.jpg (87.6 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg DEG Sales 1999-2009.jpg (94.7 KB, 14 views)

Last edited by PenguinMaster; 11-23-2016 at 06:02 AM.
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