Oh noes teh sky is falling!

[Geode]

Originally Posted by chriscreep23

Here's a a study/stress test article that someone on this site posted yesterday. The article made me more worried about the stability and longevity of blu-rays. The guy actually performed stress tests under certain conditions and blu-rays rated very poorly. In fact if you look at table 5, single layer read-only blu-rays scored even poorly than single layer read-only DVDs which means that even read-only DVDs have higher longevity than read-only blu-rays.

"The most recent generation of optical disc media available is the Blu-ray format. Blu-rays offer significantly more storage capacity than compact discs (CDs) and digital versatile discs (DVDs) and thus are an attractive option for the storage of large image or audio and video files. However, uncertainty exists on the stability and longevity of Blu-ray discs and the literature does not contain much information on these topics. In this study, the stabilities of Blu-ray formats such as read-only movie discs as well as many different brands of recordable and erasable media were evaluated. Testing involved the exposure of samples to conditions of 80 °C and 85 % relative humidity for intervals up to 84 days. Overall, the stability of the Blu-ray formats was poor with many discs significantly degraded after only 21 days of accelerated ageing. In addition to large increases in error rates, many discs showed easily identifiable visible degradation in several different forms. In a comparison with other optical disc formats examined previously, Blu-ray stability ranked very low. Other data from the study indicated that recording Blu-ray media with low initial error rates is challenging for some brands at this time, which is a factor that ultimately affects longevity."

https://www.semanticscholar.org/pape...68bd1c8d6663ab

Apart from the abstract I can't access this article. Has anybody else read all its content?

[HDTV1080P]

1,000+ years for stamped and M-Disc if stored correctly.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=340752

[jkoffman]

I can't believe how persistent the OPer is here. Instead of trolling with rando blogs and whatnot, why not listen to people here in the forum who actually have had various disc formats for nearly 40 years now that still play fine. There are currently 586,950 forum members here, so where are all these actual stories of people losing their library to rot?

[HDTV1080P]

There are many Laserdiscs from the year 1978 which are still in perfect working condition. And some of those Laserdiscs may last over 1,000 years. There was a very small amount of Laserdiscs that experienced Laser rot in the 80’s that caused sparkles on the screen in the analog video. Maybe one disc out of 2,000 because it was stamped incorrectly. However that issue was fixed back in the 80’s around 40 years ago.

[Geode]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

There are many Laserdiscs from the year 1978 which are still in perfect working condition. And some of those Laserdiscs may last over 1,000 years. There was a very small amount of Laserdiscs that experienced Laser rot in the 80’s that caused sparkles on the screen in the analog video. Maybe one disc out of 2,000 because it was stamped incorrectly. However that issue was fixed back in the 80’s around 40 years ago.

A very significant percentage of LaserDiscs that I have, or have had developed rot. Using your estimate I would have lost only one, but I think I had lost about 10-20% of mine the last time I had bothered to check my collection of hundreds of discs. This would number well over a hundred that went bad. I stopped checking very much because it was depressing me. Every time I do I find up to a dozen discs that have subsequently gone bad. I had a collection of about four dozen British PAL LaserDiscs. I think all but a couple are now completely gone. This is not a case of just "sparkles" as they will not play at all, or skip in places when they first start to go.

Decades ago I sent Pioneer perhaps about 50 that had failed, back when they offered a replacement program. It was said at the time that discs pressed in the Carson, California plant were the most susceptible to rot. Pioneer said that they started using purer aluminum and glue, but the rotting problem still continued.

I have many double-sided DVDs that have rotted. Perhaps this is not surprising since they are the most similar to LaserDiscs in the way they are sandwiched. I Think about half of my two seasons of MGM "Outer Limits" discs have gone bad.

But I think the plastic substrates themselves will fail hundreds of years before that 1000 year estimate. The recorded layers will be long gone even before that, and the glue will have failed. I think perhaps the only way to have made a LaserDisc have hundreds of years of life would have been to have used gold and glass and have found a more permanent form of cementing agent with no oxygen in it.
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[unberechenbar]

Originally Posted by Geode

A very significant percentage of LaserDiscs that I have, or have had developed rot. Using your estimate I would have lost only one, but I think I had lost about 10-20% of mine the last time I had bothered to check my collection of hundreds of discs. This would number well over a hundred that went bad. I stopped checking very much because it was depressing me. Every time I do I find up to a dozen discs that have subsequently gone bad. I had a collection of about four dozen British PAL LaserDiscs. I think all but a couple are now completely gone. This is not a case of just "sparkles" as they will not play at all, or skip in places when they first start to go.

Decades ago I sent Pioneer perhaps about 50 that had failed, back when they offered a replacement program. It was said at the time that discs pressed in the Carson, California plant were the most susceptible to rot. Pioneer said that they started using purer aluminum and glue, but the rotting problem still continued.

I have many double-sided DVDs that have rotted. Perhaps this is not surprising since they are the most similar to LaserDiscs in the way they are sandwiched. I Think about half of my two seasons of MGM "Outer Limits" discs have gone bad.

But I think the plastic substrates themselves will fail hundreds of years before that 1000 year estimate. The recorded layers will be long gone even before that, and the glue will have failed. I think perhaps the only way to have made a LaserDisc have hundreds of years of life would have been to have used gold and glass and have found a more permanent form of cementing agent with no oxygen in it.
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Do you expect people to report similar problems with Blu-ray discs in a few years?

[chriscreep23]

Originally Posted by Geode

A very significant percentage of LaserDiscs that I have, or have had developed rot. Using your estimate I would have lost only one, but I think I had lost about 10-20% of mine the last time I had bothered to check my collection of hundreds of discs. This would number well over a hundred that went bad. I stopped checking very much because it was depressing me. Every time I do I find up to a dozen discs that have subsequently gone bad. I had a collection of about four dozen British PAL LaserDiscs. I think all but a couple are now completely gone. This is not a case of just "sparkles" as they will not play at all, or skip in places when they first start to go.

Decades ago I sent Pioneer perhaps about 50 that had failed, back when they offered a replacement program. It was said at the time that discs pressed in the Carson, California plant were the most susceptible to rot. Pioneer said that they started using purer aluminum and glue, but the rotting problem still continued.

I have many double-sided DVDs that have rotted. Perhaps this is not surprising since they are the most similar to LaserDiscs in the way they are sandwiched. I Think about half of my two seasons of MGM "Outer Limits" discs have gone bad.

But I think the plastic substrates themselves will fail hundreds of years before that 1000 year estimate. The recorded layers will be long gone even before that, and the glue will have failed. I think perhaps the only way to have made a LaserDisc have hundreds of years of life would have been to have used gold and glass and have found a more permanent form of cementing agent with no oxygen in it.
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First you say that you have lost 10-20% of your laserdiscs then you say all but a couple are completely gone. So which is it?

[HDTV1080P]

Laserdiscs started coming out in 1978, audio CD’s in 1983 (USA), DVD’s in 1997, Blu-ray’s in 2006, and 4K Blu-ray’s in 2016.

Some optical discs that used pure water and stamped correctly including recordable M-Disc well last around 1,000 years according to age testing technology. There is no guarantees in life, only time well tell which optical formats and studio optical factories were the best for longevity.

[2f6g2s9c73]

1. BRD are higher resolution / gets errors far easier
2. There are no "optimized dyes" and "extra layer" like Verbatim archival DVD options(which is mostly BS by the way they just have better QA because limited batch manufacturing practices)
3. AACS 1.0 and 2.0 are designed to prevent any form of backup. Cinavia and some other BRD schemes(one does video watermarking) even have watermarks; you don't have to distribute for it to be illegal

TL; DR; darkness... humidity control.... 72F/22C.. nothing releasing acids(cardboard and paper) or gases = "10 to 20 years" or "50 to 150 years"

[Geode]

Originally Posted by unberechenbar

Do you expect people to report similar problems with Blu-ray discs in a few years?

No, I think they are likely to be far more stable.

[Geode]

Originally Posted by chriscreep23

First you say that you have lost 10-20% of your laserdiscs then you say all but a couple are completely gone. So which is it?

You should re-read what I posted more carefully. I specifically wrote about a small subset of my discs that were British PAL ones, of which only a couple had not gone bad. The vast majority of my discs are NTSC, mostly from the USA, but I do have quite a few Japanese discs and some of those have also rotted.

[JurassicBD]

Originally Posted by johndoyle123

A recent Canadian “study” has shown they believe the top end life span of a pressed blu ray disc to be 10-20 years. Despite us having numerous manufacturer stress tests and private aging study’s showing it being more likely 50-150+

https://www.canada.ca/en/conservatio...-cds-dvds.html

https://www.filmstories.co.uk/featur...blu-rays-last/

Where do you stand on this ? How long do you think your discs last

I didn't read the article, but just looking at what you've posted of it seems enough to dismiss its veracity. I would question the journalist's interpretation of the data and maybe his/her motivations, the way online reporting tends to exploit controversy over honest objectivity these days, mislead the reader just to get their attention. Unless they're referring to 10-20 years of constant playback, obviously it's already proven to be in error for optimally pressed media.

There may be viable concern related to deteriorating production standards. And I'd be particularly interested in any studies examining the long-term effects of scratches on BD in particular considering how close the data layer is to the disc surface, whether or not even shallow scratches could increase the risk of premature oxidation. Otherwise, assuming BDs are stored properly, the first thing to deteriorate should be the sealant, which my understanding is estimated to last at least 100 years IF applied properly, according something I read so long ago, I can't even remember the source at the moment, possibly DVD Demystified. I do not know whether or not BD uses the same sealant though.

With the exception of M-discs, BD-R on the other hand can be very inconsistent and even erode with use, as the laser is reported to somehow degrade the die. Even BD-R has shown longer life expectancies (with infrequent use) than this study finds for pressed discs, but again BD-Rs are much less consistent. The life expectancy of BD-R M discs on the other hand is essentially indefinite, being it's estimated at 1000 years. One would reasonably assume pressed media to be more in the same ballpark, IF properly sealed and handled.

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

So what exactly is the fact that Blu-ray discs fail after 21 days of 80 degrees Celsius heat (which is 176 degrees Fahrenheit) supposed to prove?

I would assume they're trying to equate internal player temperatures, that the discs might be subjected to. Though that still seems a little high for an air-conditioned environment or cooler climate, like Canada. I think the much more critical part of the quote was the reference to very high humidity. Humidity is definitely not a friend to, well, anything manufactured. Even so, for a 2 hour film, that equates to roughly 250 viewings in a high heat, high humidity environment. I can live with that.

[JurassicBD]

Originally Posted by Blu-Curry

So here's what happened:

I wanted to watch my blu-ray copy of Face/Off last night. It released May 2008 and I bought it right away, only ever watching it once on my original 60GB PS3. I put it in my 120GB Slim PS3 (got it 2011/2012) and it recognized the disc, but was unable to read it: ERROR 80029940 "This video cannot be played".

I was suprised, so I took the blu-ray next to it (Enter The Dragon - the 2007 release) and put it into my PS3. This too I only watched once back in the day on my 60GB PS3. This time, the Slim PS3 didn't even recognize it.

I wondered if the PS3 was damaging the discs upon insertion or the discs themselves were somehow defected. Face/Off looked to have a small hairline "fracture"/slight disruption on the underside by the hole. Enter The Dragon looked clean.

I did some more tests. I took the blu-ray on the left on my shelf of those 2 (District 9) and the one on the right (GI Joe: Rise of Cobra). Both worked on my PS3. I decided to try other old blu-ray films of mine. Total Recall (2006 release) which did look a bit dirty/scratched on the underside (watched it total 2 times, probably once on each PS3) and this time the PS3 didn't recognize it. I put in The Untouchables (2007 release) which I bought the same day as Face/Off and only watched once on 60GB PS3... it worked!

I tried Face/Off on PS4 ("Cannot play the disc" ERROR CE-35485-5), while Enter The Dragon and Total Recall were not recognized and instead ejected. I tried Face/Off and Enter The Dragon on an older LG blu-ray player, which didn't play them either.

So at the end of this all, I'm just really baffled how 3 older blu-rays out of 4 chosen from my collection from pre-2009 no longer work. Especially since I watched them only once about 10 or more years ago. It makes me question how the rest of my library is holding up. On one hand, I guess it gives me an excuse to get 4K UHD versions but on the other it's disheartening that these blu-rays I paid for so long ago no longer work.

Does anyone have any insight regarding this?

Edit: I had also tested the last blu-ray movie I watched (Independence Day 20th Anniversary). Still worked on PS3, and then worked on PS4.

If you start noticing a lot of read errors, it's very possibly an early indicator of optical pickup failure, or maybe the laser just needs cleaning. It could very well even be player or decoder specific, so anytime you come across a disc that won't load, that doesn't have obvious signs of oxidation or physical abuse, you shouldn't assume it's actually the disc, until having corroborated the experience with another player, sometimes an entirely different make of player that doesn't use the same decoder. Trying it in both a PS3 and PS4 won't be absolute enough to go by as they both use the same decoder, mediatek, if memory serves.

Yes, BD50s especially had production issues early on, though manufacturers were aware of this and in some cases instigated tighter production standards to try to reduce the defect rate. But most of those are well documented. Oxidation can be verified just by looking at the disc. If there's no indication of rot, the odds are greater that it's a hardware issue, unless the disc has been mishandled or improperly stored. Also keep in mind if you bought it used or new. If it was a used rental that has been resurfaced, unlike DVD, because the recorded membrane is so close to the surface... A professional resurfacing machine can even polish out all the scratches. This will sometimes make the disc play for a period, but may or may not lead to failure years later.

There are also discs that worked initially, but later revisions to BD spec. rendered them inoperable or problematic in any player that has been made or updated after the revisions took effect. In most cases that I'm aware of the studio promptly issued a replacement program. Unfortunately, these days studios have little motivation to take care of their physical customers - one of the many downsides to supporting all-digital delivery that will eventually come back to bite all consumers, not just the collector market.

The PS3 is notorious for requiring periodic copy-protection renewals, every 18 months I believe. I don't believe every studio enforces it. Warner seems to be the worst - before we had better wifi, every 18 months I had to hookup our PS3 in the HT, it was out of range of the wifi in the living room, just to load the latest Warner BDs. Lionsgate, I believe, always put such copy protection measures on the disc itself, so internet wasn't required. I suspect Sony did too, their discs just don't tell you what they're actually doing when they load up.

Originally Posted by Vilya

A little rubbing alcohol and a micro fiber cloth will also remove that cloudy haze on DVDs.

If you've been using rubbing alcohol to clean simple case film off your discs, that right there is a surefire cause of them going bad. Alcohol will breakdown the adhesive sealant; I've even read it can affect the hardcoat, but I haven't looked for confirmation on the later; the former should be common sense. About the harshest cleaner recommended for cleaning discs is baby shampoo. But a microfiber cloth alone is more than adequate to clean simple case film. But, you've got to clean it out of the case too, if you don't want it getting back on the disc, and even then I'm not positive it won't come back. You should only need a cleaner for the likes of popcorn grease, and stubborn fingerprints.

[JurassicBD]

Originally Posted by stackerboy99

Hello,

I know I have made a lot of forum posts already on this topic, but I feel at this point, I need some help and closure with this, and if ANYBODY has ANYTHING that can help, that would be very appreciated.

For the last year or so, I have been growing an obsession with the condition of Blu-ray/4K/DVDs. Whenever I purchase a title, brand new, and notice any sort of scratch (even those invisible ones that only appear when you hold the disc up to the light a certain way) or any imperfection that I cannot wipe off, then I end up having to rebuy the same title(s) until the disc condition is pristine. It also equals an automatic rebuy for me when a title arrives and I hear a loose disc.

Thankfully, I have gotten a little better at this by not looking at the bottom of the disc whenever I buy a title, but I think my worst culprit are the Blu-ray seasons of Supernatural. I own every season, but one season has had imperfect discs with every duplicate purchase I make of it.

I think my mindset is that if there is any sort of imperfection on a disc, then that automatically means to me that the disc is defective and will not play properly, even when I have not tested it at all. It's also gotten to the point where, if I do look at a new disc, I then end up deeming it unplayable with every wipe of my shirt I give it, causing another rebuy. This obsession has only occurred with small portions of my collection (thankfully) and I do not plan to do this with every title I own.

All of these things have been causing me to think maybe I should move to digital media and just purchase movies via VUDU and own them digitally. I know physical media reigns supreme to many, but with digital, you don't have to worry about rebuying or the condition of it.

If anybody has any sort of advice, or help, or ANYTHING that can go towards ending this OCD obsession, that would be appreciated. The main TL;DR here, is that I worry about the condition of discs in my collection, and feel the need to rebuy a title if I ever notice an irremovable scratch/smudge on a disc, and I want to be able to not worry about it anymore. This didn't start happening until a year ago, so I don't know why it has become such an issue when it meant nothing to me before.

I get where you're coming from, though I would advise against returning simply because the disc is loose. There's no reason to assume it's scratched just because it's loose, much less, defective. Such can only cause etailers to devalue you as a customer. They also tend to raise prices to compensate for returns, even when it's damage due to their own packaging negligence, and considering the era we're in, it could even discourage them from viewing physical media as a worthwhile commidy to carry.

Since we upgraded to UHD last November, we've been aggressively upgrading our collection. I've been astonished at the number of UHD discs that are coming scratched from the factory. And after having issues with the first few scratched discs we tested, I jumped to the conclusion that scratches were an automatic disc-killer for the format. I'm much less sure of that now. Since then we've played quite a few scratched discs that had no issue whatsoever. We've also updated our Panny's firmware (I thought I already had first thing when we got it, but it turned out there was a lot more to it than what I thought), so that might have helped - the problems we had may not have been related to scratches at all, but rather outdated firmware.

A lot of the "brand new" UHDs we've received from amazon, target, and Best Buy, even a few that came from Deepdiscount and even Disney Movie Club, appeared to be rewrapped returns. I suspect UHD has a higher than average return ratio due to player issues and even user error (like people assuming they'll play on UHD streaming or upscaling standard HD Blu-ray players) that it's more feasible to put them back into circulation than disposing of them and producing more. Though, rewrapped BDs are becoming overly common too, it seems a high risk of anything with a large and sudden price-drop may be rewrapped. I hadn't bought a used disc since Hastings closed years ago. But with all the rewrapped returns we were getting in damaged cases, I figured it can't be any worse. So I placed a few orders on amazon. The experience was disappointing across the board. One like-new BD even arrived with the artwork upside down and the case busted. Anyway, we received Tomb Raider UHD. The UHD disc had obviously been machine cleaned as there are hundreds, maybe even thousands of small hair-like semi-circle scratches covering the disc. I knew there was no chance it would play, but I wanted to be able to say I at least tried it before making a fuss. And you know what, it didn't breakup or freeze anywhere, from beginning to end. I was dumbfounded.

Just watch them within the return window if at all possible. If you can't, see if you can get a replacement from the studio should there be an issue, you should have a few years at least before it's OOP, and even then they can often press replacements, if they actually care. Trust me, as someone who followed and reported on this industry for many years, streaming is not the answer you're looking for. It is principally geared as a rental successor, and has obviously led to less casual collector buying too. But, there is no such thing as owning a movie from Vudu, because Vudu doesn't own the movies they license. And some day their license will expire without the option of renewal.

The thing nobody seems to get, but should be extremely transparent to anyone who has followed the industry for more than the past 10-15 years: the endgame for every major producer with streaming is to be the sole, direct distributor of all of their properties. We assume they will give people a period to transfer their digital collections, when that day comes. But that's a big IF, especially when another goal is to return the market to a pay-per-view model, which Hollywood has always GREATLY preferred. So, anyone streaming should be downloading to their own server anything they really care about, making two or three redundancies, and according to a report I read they also need to be moved around periodically to avoid data corruption. Of course, some believe it a good idea to backup your discs too. It's certainly debatable whether most producers are motivated to make a product that lasts these days. But pressed discs do last, if produced properly, stored in low-humidity environments, and not abused. That's pretty well established. If we see any kind of mass failure within a minimum of 30 years, you can bet that it was built in, as even poor production standards would result in failure within probably no more than 5 years.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Just assume none of them are scratched. Stop looking, basically. Buy your Blu-ray, watch it, enjoy it.

The discs are less prone to errors from scratches anyway, DVD was far worse for that and even then, it was rare imo.

So, even if you find a scratch, it’s unlikely to cause playback issues.

You should not accept inferior quality by going digital. I presume you love film so get back to loving film.

Sorry, but that's just factually not true. BDs hardcoat was developed partially because the discs were so much more prone to playback interruption/failure from scratches. BDs focal point is right at the discs surface. BD packs 5 times as much data into the same space as dvd, therefore any scratch is more likely to overlap with recorded data, thus causing read errors. The thing is, not all scratches will cause an interruption with the lasers reflection.

The other reason for BDs hardcoat is to protect the data layer. It's so close to the disc surface that scratches pose a MUCH more significant risk deterioration of the membrane than with DVD, which has it's data layer closer to the disc center. A dvd can be resurfaced dozens of time. A BD can be resurfaced only a few times, if that.

[Blu-Curry]

^ For sure. I did try the discs on a LG blu-ray player at the time, and they didn't work. Now I have a 4K Panasonic UB820 so I'll give Face/Off and Enter the Dragon another shot (already upgraded Total Recall to 4K). I guess I didn't test them sooner because I wasn't expecting there to be a difference, but I'll give it a go.

[Hindustani]

Dude....seriously!.....Its General Chemistry 101

Have you never learned HALF-LIFE in college.

Everything has a HALF-LIFE and everything degrades over time.

Including diamonds..."diamonds are forever" is a misnomer.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by JurassicBD

I get where you're coming from, though I would advise against returning simply because the disc is loose. There's no reason to assume it's scratched just because it's loose, much less, defective. Such can only cause etailers to devalue you as a customer. They also tend to raise prices to compensate for returns, even when it's damage due to their own packaging negligence, and considering the era we're in, it could even discourage them from viewing physical media as a worthwhile commidy to carry.

Since we upgraded to UHD last November, we've been aggressively upgrading our collection. I've been astonished at the number of UHD discs that are coming scratched from the factory. And after having issues with the first few scratched discs we tested, I jumped to the conclusion that scratches were an automatic disc-killer for the format. I'm much less sure of that now. Since then we've played quite a few scratched discs that had no issue whatsoever. We've also updated our Panny's firmware (I thought I already had first thing when we got it, but it turned out there was a lot more to it than what I thought), so that might have helped - the problems we had may not have been related to scratches at all, but rather outdated firmware.

A lot of the "brand new" UHDs we've received from amazon, target, and Best Buy, even a few that came from Deepdiscount and even Disney Movie Club, appeared to be rewrapped returns. I suspect UHD has a higher than average return ratio due to player issues and even user error (like people assuming they'll play on UHD streaming or upscaling standard HD Blu-ray players) that it's more feasible to put them back into circulation than disposing of them and producing more. Though, rewrapped BDs are becoming overly common too, it seems a high risk of anything with a large and sudden price-drop may be rewrapped. I hadn't bought a used disc since Hastings closed years ago. But with all the rewrapped returns we were getting in damaged cases, I figured it can't be any worse. So I placed a few orders on amazon. The experience was disappointing across the board. One like-new BD even arrived with the artwork upside down and the case busted. Anyway, we received Tomb Raider UHD. The UHD disc had obviously been machine cleaned as there are hundreds, maybe even thousands of small hair-like semi-circle scratches covering the disc. I knew there was no chance it would play, but I wanted to be able to say I at least tried it before making a fuss. And you know what, it didn't breakup or freeze anywhere, from beginning to end. I was dumbfounded.

Just watch them within the return window if at all possible. If you can't, see if you can get a replacement from the studio should there be an issue, you should have a few years at least before it's OOP, and even then they can often press replacements, if they actually care. Trust me, as someone who followed and reported on this industry for many years, streaming is not the answer you're looking for. It is principally geared as a rental successor, and has obviously led to less casual collector buying too. But, there is no such thing as owning a movie from Vudu, because Vudu doesn't own the movies they license. And some day their license will expire without the option of renewal.

The thing nobody seems to get, but should be extremely transparent to anyone who has followed the industry for more than the past 10-15 years: the endgame for every major producer with streaming is to be the sole, direct distributor of all of their properties. We assume they will give people a period to transfer their digital collections, when that day comes. But that's a big IF, especially when another goal is to return the market to a pay-per-view model, which Hollywood has always GREATLY preferred. So, anyone streaming should be downloading to their own server anything they really care about, making two or three redundancies, and according to a report I read they also need to be moved around periodically to avoid data corruption. Of course, some believe it a good idea to backup your discs too. It's certainly debatable whether most producers are motivated to make a product that lasts these days. But pressed discs do last, if produced properly, stored in low-humidity environments, and not abused. That's pretty well established. If we see any kind of mass failure within a minimum of 30 years, you can bet that it was built in, as even poor production standards would result in failure within probably no more than 5 years.





Sorry, but that's just factually not true. BDs hardcoat was developed partially because the discs were so much more prone to playback interruption/failure from scratches. BDs focal point is right at the discs surface. BD packs 5 times as much data into the same space as dvd, therefore any scratch is more likely to overlap with recorded data, thus causing read errors. The thing is, not all scratches will cause an interruption with the lasers reflection.

The other reason for BDs hardcoat is to protect the data layer. It's so close to the disc surface that scratches pose a MUCH more significant risk deterioration of the membrane than with DVD, which has it's data layer closer to the disc center. A dvd can be resurfaced dozens of time. A BD can be resurfaced only a few times, if that.

Funny how I have had just 4 faulty discs out of around 700 in a 14 year period.

[slimjean]

Originally Posted by Hindustani

Dude....seriously!.....Its General Chemistry 101

Have you never learned HALF-LIFE in college.

Everything has a HALF-LIFE and everything degrades over time.

Including diamonds..."diamonds are forever" is a misnomer.

Aluminum and plastic are not going to break down quickly. The discs if left out of sunlight in reasonable temperature condition with no moisture are going to last hundreds of years.

Mistreat them and it will obviously be a different story.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by JurassicBD

If you've been using rubbing alcohol to clean simple case film off your discs, that right there is a surefire cause of them going bad. Alcohol will breakdown the adhesive sealant; I've even read it can affect the hardcoat, but I haven't looked for confirmation on the later; the former should be common sense. About the harshest cleaner recommended for cleaning discs is baby shampoo. But a microfiber cloth alone is more than adequate to clean simple case film. But, you've got to clean it out of the case too, if you don't want it getting back on the disc, and even then I'm not positive it won't come back. You should only need a cleaner for the likes of popcorn grease, and stubborn fingerprints.

I have used alcohol to clean optical discs for decades without any ill consequences. If I was destroying discs left and right, I would have stopped using alcohol ages ago. I only use it when simpler cleaning methods fail. I am not soaking the discs in it, just applying a little to the playback surface, wipe with microfiber cloth, rinse with water, and dry with another microfiber cloth. Total contact time with alcohol is mere seconds.

The cloudy milky white residue that I sometimes find on DVDs is not simple "case film" or that oily ooze that smears with the slightest touch; it does not come off at all unless I use alcohol; I have saved many an old DVD this way.

[kfbkfb]

A few decades ago, Philips was asked about (stamped) CD lifetimes, they cleverly stated that the typical (stamped) CD would last 1000 years, but in the case of a poor storage environment, that number would be reduced by a factor of 20 to 50 (meaning 20 years worst case).

I have had a few Philips manufactured (a certain one of their CD factories) CD Videos fail, the (analog) LaserDisc format video has progressively more static and the PCM/CD format digital audio error correction eventually can't fix the disc deterioration.

I had 1 Blu-ray fail (depends on player, some won't start to play it, others will play just the beginning then stop) and no DVDs fail.


Kirk Bayne