Oh noes teh sky is falling!

[meremortal]

Studios have been complaining of not making profits on streaming even though they're pushing it pretty aggressively. The movie and tv space has so many options now with many streaming competitors. I can't imagine that physical media would be gaining new customers at anywhere the rate as physical media. With people like us who grew up physical media there's still habit and wanting the best a/v, extras, etc. Most people want access and convenience. Streaming quality is also generally quite good these days. But it seems like the industry could be shaken up any day. I still kind of see it as a game of Jenga where one major studio may announce no new dvd, blu ray or uhd going forward and then the mainstream side may crumble with other majors deciding to back out and go all-in on streaming. Each little chip away like Best Buy moving on does not help. I guess the best way as a consumer is to show your support by continuing to buy physical media if you want it to continue.

[El Rey]

Originally Posted by C.C. 95

More DVDs, Blu rays and UHDs are being made in 2023 than any time in history.
Physical media is GROWING not dying.

I never asserted physical media was dying or less discs were being produced.
the chart I shared only shows that comparatively over the first two quarters of this year vs. last year, sales were down about 30%
thats it, thats all

by the way kudos to whoever updated the thread title!

[Bitofacraic]

I wouldn't be so against digital if it was like gaming where the the physical and digital versions are identical

And there's the whole they can remove episodes/scenes or just remove it completely for no reason because you don't own digital copies

[kngtmat]

Barnes & Nobel is trying to take advantage of the news trying to get people to buy from them.

https://twitter.com/BNBuzz/status/1713153910939013548

[bradnoyes]

Originally Posted by Chad Rouch

Yes, it is. It will come a lot faster than a lot of us on this forum want to believe it will. It's just the next evolution though. Just like way back when the only way to watch uncut, full-length movies at home was on HBO. And then it was VHS. Laserdiscs tried to be a thing but they never went mainstream. Then DVD/Blu-ray upped the ante with regard to quality and electronics manufacturers were able to sell us increasingly sophisticated equipment.

Streaming is just the next natural progression. And its quality will improve. It already has over the last 10 years. It started with just SD streams and now can go full 4k with HDR and Atmos. Lossless audio will eventually come just like it finally came to the online music providers like Spotify and iTunes.

And then it will move on to the next natural evolution. Progress in inevitable and it should always be embraced, not feared.

Meh. We're already seeing the streaming bubble start to burst and there is zero chance that boutique labels will simply go away anytime soon. There might even be a silver lining to the big studios jumping ship since it could open the floodgates to them licensing out content to boutique labels for their catalog titles.

In general I agree that progress isn't a bad thing, but streaming is a regression so I'm not buying into that argument. The declining market for physical media has less to do with progress than it has to do with giant corporations figuring out how to increase their revenue streams while denying consumers any sense of ownership of their content.

Originally Posted by Bitofacraic

I wouldn't be so against digital if it was like gaming where the the physical and digital versions are identical

And there's the whole they can remove episodes/scenes or just remove it completely for no reason because you don't own digital copies

Plus, I can download pretty much any game I own digitally and play them whether I'm online or offline.

Unfortunately we already see the big players in gaming moving towards streaming. Sony in particular I can see slowly phasing out downloads over the next ten years and moving to an entirely streaming platform. And like I mentioned above, that's not "progress." But sadly, if Sony says that it is, then most of their brand loyalists will go right along with it.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW

Man, why is this website trying to bury this news?
In the steelbook section they moved the post about this to the "steelbook galleries" subsection that nobody even knows exists. What does it have to do with "steelbook galleries"???

And now they move the posts out of the main blu-ray and UHD sections into this long "the sky is falling thread" that I myself have never even viewed before once.

Plus, the SKY IS FALLING, the last place that had any decent selection to view physical media in hand is gonna be gone. Physical retails stores SKY IS FALLING. This is not some fake chicken little nonsense, this IS REAL.

Agreed. Very disappointing that this very important piece of tech news that will clearly affect the industry at least in some capacity has been swept away into the back room so to speak where nobody ever goes. Real disappointing.

[Chad Rouch]

Originally Posted by bradnoyes

We're already seeing the streaming bubble start to burst and there is zero chance that boutique labels will simply go away anytime soon.

As I was discussing with meremortal earlier elsewhere on this forum, boutique labels will run into pricing issues. Even now, the prices they need to charge for some of these titles prices many people out of the market. Take for instance the impending Shout version of JFK at $65. That's just too much. And you're talking to a guy who once upon a time spent $150 on the CAV Director's Cut of JFK on LaserDisc. But these days I have far less time to watch movies like I used to, and $4.99 iTunes in 4K do fine by me.

So, sure, boutiques will keep physical media alive for a while, but the economics of it will catch up with them eventually.

Which means the how of streaming movies are delivered will change -- we will probably see ore studios buy other studios like Universal buy and consolidating with Warners to narrow the streaming field -- but the next evolution is streaming.

[MarkosC]

I'll put my chips in with the "better-quality-than-streaming movies will always be available at home" crowd.

The studios are hurting for profit margin due to the streaming race to the bottom and want to milk well off (overwhelmingly middle aged male in developed countries lol) movie buffs for all we're worth.

In fact, I think events over the few years show a few models for how to do this:

- sell lossless downloads - in the past year or so, I've joined the "download lossless flac" crowd. I'll pay more for the highest bitrate, even though I'm convinced I won't hear the difference (even with a good DAC and studio headphones). TBH, so far I've mostly* not double dipped buying stuff I already have from my CD collection (which was lost for various reasons but which I have lossless rips of my favorites still available)

- high bitrate streaming - Apple Music Classical would be an example. Admittedly a hobby/halo product for Apple, but still assumedly has a decent profit margin (and costs Apple very little)

- discless options - tbh with the occasional nuisance of scratched discs, etc. even when opening the shrink wrap, IMO it makes very little sense to distribute hypothetical future physical media (e.g. 8k very high bitrate) on a disc. A card - be it a general standard one, or a proprietary one (e.g. the cartridges for my Nintendo Switch) makes much more sense. (especially as strorage gets decreasingly more expensive)

*Mahler 6th Symphony, Bernard Haitink, Berlin Philharmonic - I only ripped in this MP3 so I had to double dip for a redbook-quality flac.

[C.C. 95]

Originally Posted by WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW

Man, why is this website trying to bury this news?
In the steelbook section they moved the post about this to the "steelbook galleries" subsection that nobody even knows exists. What does it have to do with "steelbook galleries"???

And now they move the posts out of the main blu-ray and UHD sections into this long "the sky is falling thread" that I myself have never even viewed before once.

Plus, the SKY IS FALLING, the last place that had any decent selection to view physical media in hand is gonna be gone. Physical retails stores SKY IS FALLING. This is not some fake chicken little nonsense, this IS REAL.

Because it's not really important. Best Buy has is not been consequential. They were never really a player. And they have been mismanaged for the last 10 years. Most collectors are not even phased by this, because BB has had one foot out the door for the last 5 years. The only thing worth anything there were the Lionsgate steelbooks (and Lionsgate will simply shift them to another retailer).....Out of my 3700 movies in my collection- only about 100 are from BB.
This IS chicken little stuff. FACT: More DVDs, Blu rays and UHDs are being released in 2023 than in the history of physical media. Physical media is GROWING.
And there will soon be acceleration by the studios to release more, as they realize they have left BILLIONS on the table. (Disney's Bob Iger even said earlier this year that they were going to revisit physical media).

[moreorless]

Originally Posted by bradnoyes

Meh. We're already seeing the streaming bubble start to burst and there is zero chance that boutique labels will simply go away anytime soon. There might even be a silver lining to the big studios jumping ship since it could open the floodgates to them licensing out content to boutique labels for their catalog titles.

In general I agree that progress isn't a bad thing, but streaming is a regression so I'm not buying into that argument. The declining market for physical media has less to do with progress than it has to do with giant corporations figuring out how to increase their revenue streams while denying consumers any sense of ownership of their content.

I think what were starting to see is Streaming actually having to get into the business of making money. The market as its existed until recently was mostly based on building market share, using that to attract investment and be able to build up debt. Prices are rising fast and I think your see that and long term contracts carry on over the next few years.

I don't think the big media companies were ever entirely happy with physical media, they always preferred the "rental" model to an "ownership" model. I think thats also part of what streaming has been about, basically killing the idea of ownership so that even when prices for streaming rise you'll have a market place were a lot of people simply do not consider physical media.

I'v used streaming somewhat but I'v never trusted that it will be a good long term option, if the cost does increase significantly I'll probably end up using it far less.

[Brian81]

Is this the fastest growing thread in the history of this forum? Over 500 pages already? Damn.



Oh wait, I just thought the thread title changed. Looks like this was merged with another thread. That explains it.

[VirtuaBranson]

I hate how this got moved. I want a more central news/discussion thread in the main BluRay and 4K forums not this weird offshoot BS.

[Stream]

Originally Posted by Chad Rouch

Streaming is just the next natural progression. And its quality will improve.

I'm not convinced that a majority is asking for (so said) better specs...
Platforms know this. So they will throw money around for that, sure

Originally Posted by Chad Rouch

Lossless audio will eventually come just like it finally came to the online music providers like Spotify and iTunes

I'm dying to see that become a selling point for the main target (general public/soundbars owners mostly).

Originally Posted by Chad Rouch

Progress in inevitable and it should always be embraced, not feared.

Some examples below (just a few & not in order)...

- No really ownership of the movie you purchased (e.g not rent).
- No permanent titles: content library is so regularly changing.
- If looking for special titles (e.g boutique: well, good luck).

...TBH, sorry mate. But I'm not in a rush, to embrace this yet

PSA I guess it's understood that I'm not 100% supporting streaming - as we know it YTD.
More on the physical side... My user name refering to the folder stored in BDMV directory.

[C.C. 95]

Originally Posted by moreorless

I think what were starting to see is Streaming actually having to get into the business of making money. The market as its existed until recently was mostly based on building market share, using that to attract investment and be able to build up debt. Prices are rising fast and I think your see that and long term contracts carry on over the next few years.

I don't think the big media companies were ever entirely happy with physical media, they always preferred the "rental" model to an "ownership" model. I think thats also part of what streaming has been about, basically killing the idea of ownership so that even when prices for streaming rise you'll have a market place were a lot of people simply do not consider physical media.

I'v used streaming somewhat but I'v never trusted that it will be a good long term option, if the cost does increase significantly I'll probably end up using it far less.

[TheDean]

Originally Posted by VirtuaBranson

I hate how this got moved. I want a more central news/discussion thread in the main BluRay and 4K forums not this weird offshoot BS.

Like this?
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=366820

[strumdogg]

Originally Posted by TheDean

Like this?
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=366820

Hey Dean!
Can we get this one moved too?


https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=366796

[moreorless]

Originally Posted by C.C. 95

Yeah, I think that tells you that either prices are going up a lot or content is having less spent on it, probably both.

Again I'v used streaming a good deal but I won't be surprised if it coming years it becomes less of a good deal so having a physical media collection is a nice fall back, could cut it out entirely and still have plenty to watch.

As a photographer I hated Adobe moving photoshop to a subscription only model, I shifted to using Capture One instead as you can buy that outright.

[t-mel]

Originally Posted by Chad Rouch

Yes, it is. It will come a lot faster than a lot of us on this forum want to believe it will. It's just the next evolution though. Just like way back when the only way to watch uncut, full-length movies at home was on HBO. And then it was VHS. Laserdiscs tried to be a thing but they never went mainstream. Then DVD/Blu-ray upped the ante with regard to quality and electronics manufacturers were able to sell us increasingly sophisticated equipment.

Streaming is just the next natural progression. And its quality will improve. It already has over the last 10 years. It started with just SD streams and now can go full 4k with HDR and Atmos. Lossless audio will eventually come just like it finally came to the online music providers like Spotify and iTunes.

And then it will move on to the next natural evolution. Progress in inevitable and it should always be embraced, not feared.

This is wishful thinking if you ask me. What is the incentive to improve the quality when people already say they don't care and it costs more to do so? And lossless music isn't really a good comparison considering how much smaller the required bandwidth is. The streamers (e.g. Disney and Warner) are already putting 4k in the more expensive tiers.

Also, streaming does nothing for preservation. Look at the availability of older films on the streamers. They are almost non-existent. They are heavily biased towards newer things. Streaming prioritises the popular and therefore the new, and anything else is superfluous. That's going to continue. You will see way more lost media.

Originally Posted by MarkosC

- discless options - tbh with the occasional nuisance of scratched discs, etc. even when opening the shrink wrap, IMO it makes very little sense to distribute hypothetical future physical media (e.g. 8k very high bitrate) on a disc. A card - be it a general standard one, or a proprietary one (e.g. the cartridges for my Nintendo Switch) makes much more sense. (especially as strorage gets decreasingly more expensive)

I don't think this is a good idea. First you don't need to go beyond 4k really. Discs are very cheap to manufacture so it will be a long time before a card will be cheaper. But most importantly discs are simply more reliable than cards.

[moreorless]

Originally Posted by t-mel

This is wishful thinking if you ask me. What is the incentive to improve the quality when people already say they don't care and it costs more to do so? And lossless music isn't really a good comparison considering how much smaller the required bandwidth is. The streamers (e.g. Disney and Warner) are already putting 4k in the more expensive tiers.

Also, streaming does nothing for preservation. Look at the availability of older films on the streamers. They are almost non-existent. They are heavily biased towards newer things. Streaming prioritises the popular and therefore the new, and anything else is superfluous. That's going to continue. You will see way more lost media.

I don't think this is a good idea. First you don't need to go beyond 4k really. Discs are very cheap to manufacture so it will be a long time before a card will be cheaper. But most importantly discs are simply more reliable than cards.

Really it was only Netflix getting very cheap rights to a lot of media that allowed it to sell the idea it was ever going to be a repository of film/tv history. These days I'm guessing simply the storage/bandwidth would probably be too much anyway.

As far as 8K goes I think the issue could likely be the market is just too small for a disk format. My guess is if he see much 8K it will either be high end streaming of things like sporting events or perhaps if we see Imax cinemas using 8K masters maybe some kind of download service that also uses them? wasnt there a service that used larger cinema versions of films with less compression? something like that aiming at a small market of cinephiles with very large screens.

I really do not see 8K becoming a format with a significant range of films on it though.

[eiknarf]

Originally Posted by meremortal

Studios have been complaining of not making profits on streaming even though they're pushing it pretty aggressively. The movie and tv space has so many options now with many streaming competitors. I can't imagine that physical media would be gaining new customers at anywhere the rate as physical media. With people like us who grew up physical media there's still habit and wanting the best a/v, extras, etc. Most people want access and convenience. Streaming quality is also generally quite good these days. But it seems like the industry could be shaken up any day. I still kind of see it as a game of Jenga where one major studio may announce no new dvd, blu ray or uhd going forward and then the mainstream side may crumble with other majors deciding to back out and go all-in on streaming. Each little chip away like Best Buy moving on does not help. I guess the best way as a consumer is to show your support by continuing to buy physical media if you want it to continue.

Originally Posted by Chad Rouch

Yes, it is. It will come a lot faster than a lot of us on this forum want to believe it will. It's just the next evolution though. Just like way back when the only way to watch uncut, full-length movies at home was on HBO. And then it was VHS. Laserdiscs tried to be a thing but they never went mainstream. Then DVD/Blu-ray upped the ante with regard to quality and electronics manufacturers were able to sell us increasingly sophisticated equipment.

Streaming is just the next natural progression. And its quality will improve. It already has over the last 10 years. It started with just SD streams and now can go full 4k with HDR and Atmos. Lossless audio will eventually come just like it finally came to the online music providers like Spotify and iTunes.

And then it will move on to the next natural evolution. Progress in inevitable and it should always be embraced, not feared.

I was just telling my wife, if it wasn’t for streaming we/I would never have seen 50 of the last 100 movies I’ve/we’ve watched! Especially because we dig independent films!
Best Buy, Target and Walmart would not carry or stock the fifty or so I’m talking about. As a matter of fact half of said fifty titles probably don’t even have a physical release if we wanted to buy em.

So we have to ask ourselves: are we a fan of movies/storytelling, or are we fans of an inanimate object, such as a physical disk that has one purpose, and that purpose is to hold the form of entertainment that we say we love??

So what is it?
Do you love movies, or do you love discs?


.