Oh noes teh sky is falling!

[StilettoViper]

Originally Posted by Terjyn

The status quo has not worked with "cheapass player prices" this whole time.

It'll change now...why? Because a bunch of morons say so?

Blu-Ray has such a phenomenal lead that they can wait a couple of weeks and see if this firesale has a real effect. If it does, *THEN* you can respond. You've cost yourself nothing substantial, and you aren't jumping the gun at every little BS thing put out by the opposition.

Blu-Ray would already be dead if it was run by people so fundamentally clueless about the nature of business as yourselves.

If you think you are so business savvy, go start yourself up a flipping business. When you are a millionaire, then you can talk from a position of authority. As it is you guys are just idiots.

Over-confidence is a weakness. You should be more objective. Take off the blu-blinders. I love blu-ray but these cheap players are a serious threat. The more of us blu supporters who gripe about the price of the players the more people will listen in the right places. Saying "the prices are ok" for blu is not helping Blu's cause AT ALL.

[blu-rayfan101]

Fudder, He should be banned! I don't usually say this stuff.

[Terjyn]

You know what, I give all you doubters express permission to come back in a month and tout the "fact" that HD-DVD outsold Blu-Ray players for a week, that Blu-Ray completely screwed up by not responding.

Scream I told you so from the top of your lungs.

I bet not one of you will say a freaking word when Blu-Ray continues to be 60:40 or more in their favor.

Basically, get the hell out of the format war. Blu doesn't need people who panic because they mighta sorta heard that somewhere an HD-DVD player sold.

[Sleuth255]

Supply is key to this for sure. I'm puzzled about this myself. ATM, the single most expensive component in any HD player (blu-ray or hd dvd) is its blue-violet laser. Right now, only a handful of suppliers exist for these and even the volume pricing is sky high. This is poised to change itnf btw, but fttb there's got to be a significant loss being eaten somewhere for every $99 A2 player sold.... The laser itself doesn't price that low even at quantity (as PS3 pricing attests)...

[bazie]

looks like it. 98 bucks for the black friday A2 player is crazyness eh?

Of course while walmart is about as price sensitive as kmart, walmart is still stocking a good lineup of bluray players.

Eitherway I don't think this is a question at all of walmart saying "HDDVD is better we support them" I think it is pure and simple walmart only ever wanting to sell the cheapest possible things becasue that is what they do. At this particular moment that happens to be HDDVD but if it was bluray i am sure they would be doing the exact same thing.

Unfortunately every HDDVD player sale just prolongs the war........

[StilettoViper]

Originally Posted by Terjyn

You know what, I give all you doubters express permission to come back in a month and tout the "fact" that HD-DVD outsold Blu-Ray players for a week, that Blu-Ray completely screwed up by not responding.

Scream I told you so from the top of your lungs.

I bet not one of you will say a freaking word when Blu-Ray continues to be 60:40 or more in their favor.

Basically, get the hell out of the format war. Blu doesn't need people who panic because they mighta sorta heard that somewhere an HD-DVD player sold.

Total HOMER statements. Trust me i'll be back to say i told you so and I'll say go Blu if we keep up 60-40 but to sit back and say it's not a threat is a little naive in my opinion.

[The Don]

Originally Posted by thrlride

No wonder there is so much aggression here. Only BD fans would throw batteries at Santa. j/k

that's right...

oh wait, you were joking...

if HD DVD wins the 4th quarter, I will throw batteries at santa....guaranteed..

[StilettoViper]

Originally Posted by Sleuth255

Supply is key to this for sure. I'm puzzled about this myself. ATM, the single most expensive component in any HD player (blu-ray or hd dvd) is its blue-violet laser. Right now, only a handful of suppliers exist for these and even the volume pricing is sky high. This is poised to change itnf btw, but fttb there's got to be a significant loss being eaten somewhere for every $99 A2 player sold.... The laser itself doesn't price that low even at quantity (as PS3 pricing attests)...

I'm sure they will be taking a loss initially but i think they are in the marathon mind mode in that if they get more adoption in the long run it will work out. I do think dropping prices this far is almost a last throws type thing BUT that doesn't mean it won't work and change the tide because it absolutely could in the long run. I guess we'll see!

[rushmore9]

I think stand-alones are important, but even more important are the players that get shipped with new desktop PCs and notebooks. I think it'll be the home computing market that will ultimately be the deciding factor in this race, but only when they become affordable enough to add-on for the college freshmen with some disposable income.

[badboi]

Originally Posted by richard lichtenfelt

You could say that we have a lot of people on here in drag.

I think I've seen this one post a time or two here.

[Sleuth255]

Originally Posted by Terjyn

... Blu doesn't need people who panic because they mighta sorta heard that somewhere an HD-DVD player sold.

Its not about panic. Blu-ray victory is a foregone conclusion. Anybody knows this. The point I'm trying to make is that this bump delays that victory (perhaps significantly), continues the format war and in doing so prolongs my high disk prices and limits my selection.

OTOH a correspondingly priced blu-ray player will advance that victory, end the format war sooner and in doing so reduce my disk prices and expand my selection

[CAB]

Originally Posted by BigB88

It will if the studios (aka WB) are looking at 4th QTR HARDWARE SALES. Please read the quotes from WB, they didn't say they were looking at 4th QTR HD Sales, they specifically said (in some of their press releases), they were looking at hardware sales. Someone on the BD side needs to respond in some way to this $98 or $198 player, it could be a subtle response, but there has to be something. The "status quo" won't work with these cheapass player prices.

I don't think that losing $200 - $300 per player impresses studios. They know that if HD DVD wins, those players are gonna go back up to $400 - $2000 so Toshiba can get their billions back from losses. Warner's comments were that both BD and HD DVD players were inexpensive. That tells me that they see a $499 player as a good price point for the entry level customer.

BD's reaction should not be to slash player prices to $200 just because Toshiba has to. BD has Sharp, Samsung, Pioneer, Sony, Panasonic, and more. I think we should put more faith into believing that the coalition of companies that have real stake in the game know what the hell they are doing.

[Terjyn]

Originally Posted by Sleuth255

Its not about panic. Blu-ray victory is a forgone conclusion. Anybody knows this. The point I'm trying to make is that this bump delays that victory (perhaps significantly), continues the format war and in doing so prolongs my high disk prices and limits my selection.

OTOH a correspondingly priced blu-ray player will advance that victory, end the format war sooner and in doing so reduce my disk prices and expand my selection

Oh, don't get me wrong. If Blu-Ray wants to release a cheaper player, go Blu.

Doing it because you "need" to in response to this firesale is an utterly ridiculous concept.

People whined endlessly that the BDA wasn't responding to the Paramount deal when the deal was announced. What did the BDA do? They waited and responded when it mattered, NOT when it was announced. This was clearly the right way to handle things.

Yet now, we have an army of people who've basically never posted here before, or never posted anything positive before, telling us that they need to respond NOW NOW NOW or else Blu-Ray is DOOMED!!!11!!11!!1.

Those are the people who I'm mocking.

[MATTYBLU2]

Originally Posted by BigMESA

A Christmas commercial talking about how cheap the HD-DVD player was and how great the movie clarity was. So is Wal-Mart just trying to make a buck or are they supporting one side a wee bit more.

Discuss

Guess i wont shop at wally world anymore, of to target i am....

[BigB88]

Originally Posted by ziggy66

I totally agree. People can call those HD DVD players junk, but the average joe isn't tech savy, and they are still going to scoop them up. The BDA needs to stop sitting on their rear ends and counter with cheaper prices themselves ASAP. A $100 player vs a $400 player makes it an easy decision for a lot of the general public. BDA needs to get a player out there that's at $250. The longer they sit around and do nothing, the more momentum HD DVD is going to gain. Even if it is a short term thing, i think Sony needs to get blow those 1.0 profile players out on Black Friday. I'd like to see them cut a deal with Amazon to move a lot of player on that day at $200-$250.

I'm definitely NOT advocating a $250 player, at this price they will be taking a loss. I'm only advocating a slight drop as to remain somewhat competitive. There is no way, nor is it my expectation, that any BDA CE member drop their prices this low unless they are older players (Profile 1.0's) that haven't sold anyway.

[Grand Bob]

First of all, let me say that I enjoy blu-ray and my Sony BDP-S1; I am buying the Spider Man trilogy tonight. But it's the "average guy" that determines the direction of consumer electronics. Remember, we're talking mainstream stuff like movies here, not SACD and other esoteric items that myself and other members of this forum enjoy on our $10K+ systems. I saw it happen in the 80's, when I KNEW Beta was better. The issue back then was movies and it's movies now. If Toshiba and the HD-DVD camp can maintain prices that low for any period of time and Blu-ray continues to sit on the fence - believe me, that "average guy" is NOT going to pay 3 or more times for a BD player, Disney or not, and a critical mass will quickly build. Superiority or not, loss or not, blu-ray MUST make their product affordable, or this technology and this forum is in for a rough ride.

[tommyboy81]

I haven't read the whole thing so I don't know if anybody else has said this, but Toshiba just trying to beat BR in sales for the first time. Would be hilarious if they didn't. How many people actually know that this sale is going on. Wonder if there still giving away the 5, 10, 50, 100, or however many DVDs that they give you.

[ps3andlovinit]

Originally Posted by thrlride

Why not? BD is a premium over DVD. There are just too many DVD's on the market for to expect a huge exodus anytime soon.

It's been about an average of $5 diff on day and date releases - which makes it a no brainer to pick blu-ray for those..it's the catalogue titles where the gap is so large and that consumers see right now.

Day and date releases have been very competitive overall and I've been pretty happy on the front for such a better product.

[StilettoViper]

Originally Posted by Grand Bob

First of all, let me say that I enjoy blu-ray and my Sony BDP-S1; I am buying the Spider Man trilogy tonight. But it's the "average guy" that determines the direction of consumer electronics. Remember, we're talking mainstream stuff like movies here, not SACD and other esoteric items that myself and other members of this forum enjoy on our $10K+ systems. I saw it happen in the 80's, when I KNEW Beta was better. The issue back then was movies and it's movies now. If Toshiba and the HD-DVD camp can maintain prices that low for any period of time and Blu-ray continues to sit on the fence - believe me, that "average guy" is NOT going to pay 3 or more times for a BD player, Disney or not, and a critical mass will quickly build. Superiority or not, loss or not, blu-ray MUST make their product affordable, or this technology and this forum is in for a rough ride.

Well said Bob. 100% agree. I can tell you are no youngster and have seen these battles before!

[StilettoViper]

Originally Posted by ps3andlovinit

It's been about an average of $5 diff on day and date releases - which makes it a no brainer to pick blu-ray for those..it's the catalogue titles where the gap is so large and that consumers see right now.

Day and date releases have been very competitive overall and I've been pretty happy on the front for such a better product.

It's almost Christmas and electronics gifts are huge, there will be displays and such for christmas shoppers. I think obviously after the new year is when we'll see the full effect of this sale and into next year...If Warner goes Blu exclusive all bets are off but otherwise things may get tighter. You sell a million HD-DVD players for christmas and the Nielson's will change in a hurry IMO...