Oh noes teh sky is falling!

[Tempest]

They only surrveyed 2500 people.. their figures are all based on that small 2500 sample.. the entire article is a complete joke. They probably did the survey on an HD DVD fan based web site or something similar anyways. The figures they are providing are 100% useless though.. there are more than 2500 people in the US

[ps3andlovinit]

Originally Posted by Captainhawk1

So I guess, Harris, one of the leading market research firms in the world doesn't know what it's talking about, right, because this crowd says so?

They derive revenue from their on-line polls .. which means they have clients paying for them. Who was the client for this poll? Do you know? They might know what they are talking about but it's the client that determines the topic of conversation and it's parameters that interest them.. not Harris.

Originally Posted by Captainhawk1

professional industry organization or market research firm is completely full of $hit when they point these facts out.

Please provide links for all these other market research firms and again who paid for the research. That's typically how these polls work. Harris would go broke if they did all this research for free.

Originally Posted by Captainhawk1

The response in this thread is typical: the people around here either manipulate numbers to disprove the statistics or just outright dismiss the professionally obtained statistics.

The people around here provide the source of the numbers (NPD for example) that are available to everyone to verify independently. You haven't provided enough details to warrant the same weight. Especially given the inherent imprecision of surveys, polls in comparison to sales data.

Originally Posted by Captainhawk1

This isn't an article, BTW, this is a press release indicating the results of the poll (and for those who obviously can't read, this was an online poll, not a telephonic poll). I actually participated in that poll and was vigorously pre-screened for it.

How did they contact you or how did you find out about the poll to apply. Their statement seems to imply you had to already be registered/pre-selected to take the survey but it's not 100% clear how the candidates to even be screened were determined.

Originally Posted by Captainhawk1

The questions were very specific and they defined the differences between standard DVD player, DVD players that can upconvert, HD DVD players and Blu Ray Players. They even made a point in their questions to make a distinction between owners of stand alone Blu Ray players and PS3's and I'm assuming they did the same for HD DVD players and the XBOX 360 add-on.

Why did you have to assume for HD DVD but not Blu-ray if the screening process was so rigorous? Shouldn't that have been symmetrical if the process was rigorous?

Originally Posted by Captainhawk1

I have no reason to dispute Harris' findings because simply put, Harris doesn't make mistakes and their information is consistent with other market research.

Where is the details on their "rigorous" screening process .. so we can see if it was as rigorous as you claim. We just have your word for it after all. Typical?

We need to verify the client didn't manipulate the outcome by requesting they wanted to target a particular consumer for their paid research. Maybe the client were interested in previous HD DVD owners intent about Blu-ray for example. That would certainly skew the results that HD DVD is bigger than it really is. If that's what the client asked for that's what Harris will provide after all...professionally. So without the details they could have very well been professionally obtained but be completely misleading as any indicator.

And if you don't know those details then you can't claim the results are as valid as your claiming.

Originally Posted by Captainhawk1

The reality is, you folks may know a little about Blu Ray but you don't know jack about marketing or market research. Why do you think that you know better than Harris?

We just want to know the full details of the research and who paid for its so we can determine it's quality independently. Surely your all for that since it would simply reinforce your claims. No?

[Elandyll]

CaptainHawk, given the visisble mess in the Harris's survey terminology (calling the PS3 "other HD DVD player"), the report cannot be taken at face value.

B for effort, D- for presentation. Result: Fail utterly in providing any insight.

[slaizer2000]

I wouldn't be surprised if alot of the responders thought HD-DVD player meant High Definition player as in either HD or Blu-ray. there really are alot of idiots out there.

[neos_peace]

Originally Posted by Captainhawk1

...and, apparently you weren't an English major.

comments like those aren't even needed. I enver claimed to be an english major, it was actually one of worst subjects in school. I talk and write the way I do. You dont' like it, then ignore the comment and go about stating what you want to state. it's people like you aI cna't stand. Sorry I'm not perfect like you.. OH WAIT your human just like me so no your not perfect.

[neos_peace]

Originally Posted by Captainhawk1

What you folks simply can't seem to get through your heads is that people simply do not see the benefit of Blu Ray and do not give a crap about it right now. Most of the people I see posting on this board fall either into the category of limitless disposable income and home theater setups that can go into the tens of thousands of dollars or single guys who have no families and no real bills. It's two opposite ends of the spectrum completely and they don't represent the majority of consumers.

Granted you said MOST. however in my area which is in central PA, most of us here are family men wiht below average incomes. I'm lucky if I get 30HRS a week. at lesss then $12 an hour. and yet I have converted almost my entire colection over to Blu. most of the people I know that have gone ot Blu are in the same bracket as me. SO NO. Limitless income and single guys are not the range. and are not in this forum.

Sounds to me your just another Blu-ray hater, and was relunctant to turn form HD DVD. IMO.

[atomik kinder]

I always wonder about these surveys, especially since joining a website that sends me e-mails to do surveys, Harris included. When you are being rewarded for doing surveys, you learn to figure out what they are looking for so you can get your reward. I have answered many surveys and have provided answers to their questions that isn't true. How do they know when someone is being truthful? They can't. They ask people to be honest, but is everyone being honest when they are getting something out of it when they are accepted to do the survey? Also... even after you are accepted to do a survey you can be declined because you are not giving them the answers they want.

Just something to think about.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by Marcusarilius

When will this silly format war end anyway? Sure hope blue ray pulls ahead of HD DVD as I have tons of blue ray movies already.

I would hate to have to repurchase them on HD DVD.

How is it back in 2006, and how did you manage to send a message into the future?

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by SlmShdy1

The average consumer thinks that if it says 1080p, then it is in fact HD. So there are all those people out there buying upconverting DVD players thinking they are getting HD. That somehow ends up being HD-DVD.

That's possible, since "HD-DVD" is commonly the term applied to HD upscaling DVD (sometimes even on the packaging). Whereas "HD DVD" is the dead an buried Toshiba format.

They used to argue that "HD DVD" was better than "Blu-ray" from a distinct marketing perspective. The total confusion of the term as presented right here shows it was always a moronic choice for the product name.

Can you imagine a shelf full of "HD-DVD" and "HD DVD" players and expecting the consumer to choose the true HD format?

Gary

[betterman]

External HD-DVD drive for Xbox: 3%

Come on...It was a biggest failure...3% has X360 HD-DVD driver? Pff...

[Terjyn]

Yeah, I was going to say that but I wouldn't want to be accused of "manipulating data".

But if 3% of homes own an HD DVD 360 addon, and 9% own PS3s, that means that ~2 million 360 addons were sold AFTER the war was over. Call it a hunch but when they considered 270,000 sales a big deal right as the war wound down, I kinda doubt 2 million of the addons were created.

Yes, I'm aware this is a snapshot and not the whole, but it does indicate that their sample was not entirely well chosen.

[Lord_Stewie]

I wasn't surveyed. where is this survey coming from.

[ps3andlovinit]

Originally Posted by Terjyn

Yes, I'm aware this is a snapshot and not the whole, but it does indicate that their sample was not entirely well chosen.

Or very well chosen. Like I said before ... how was this poll funded?

[tilapiah6]

Originally Posted by Marcusarilius

When will this silly format war end anyway? Sure hope blue ray pulls ahead of HD DVD as I have tons of blue ray movies already.

I would hate to have to repurchase them on HD DVD.

Blue ray is better looking any way? It's a no braner!

[Afrobean]

Originally Posted by Tempest

They only surrveyed 2500 people.. their figures are all based on that small 2500 sample.. the entire article is a complete joke. They probably did the survey on an HD DVD fan based web site or something similar anyways. The figures they are providing are 100% useless though.. there are more than 2500 people in the US

lol

Assuming a fair, representative sample (which might not be the case here, I do not know), 2500 is a good sample size to represent the entire nation. You don't need to poll 1 million people to get an idea what 1 million people think. Take a sociology class sometime.

[Anthony P]

How did they contact you or how did you find out about the poll to apply. Their statement seems to imply you had to already be registered/pre-selected to take the survey but it's not 100% clear how the candidates to even be screened were determined.

they posted on anthe HD DVD forum

[joeorc]

Originally Posted by Terjyn

Your entire rant is doing precisely what you claim others shouldn't be doing, "dismissing the experts and the professionals who provided them" (you are just dismissing DIFFERENT experts and professionals), you continue to manipulate the data to conform to what you want to believe, and you've convinced yourself that there is NO growth in demand for Blu-Ray in spite of all the facts that say it does exist. (Note: Increasing $ sales as a trend is not manipulation of data, it's fact.)

The fact of the matter is that you are the poster-child for being the "other side" from those here. Most people here are overly enthusiastic about Blu-Ray, but you've taken the opposite stance, and your stance isn't remotely more correct than theirs, it's just wrong in the other direction.

yup..i agree with you 100%, he is "saying blu-ray is niche..but this DATA he is putting so much faith into only apply's to the US. what is telling even with article's like this Blu-Ray support is increasing not decreasing
WORLD WIDE Blu-Ray support is greater than just I region in the world IE: the US. and 2,500 people who took this back in APR it's now JUNE almost JULY and yet thing's have happened like walmart expanding Blu-Ray support.
yet another article behind the time's

[Beta Man]

I agree with Captain Hawk on some aspects.... people like to dismiss the results a little too much, but I also think the points about HD DVD prices plummeting hold a lot of water....

Bottom line... HD DVD's success as of late has little relevance to Blu-ray's success, since HD DVD isn't being produced anymore.... if anything, it's showing a market of people with a willingness to purchase a High-Definition media.... eventually when there are more and more new movies available to them only on Blu-ray, they'll probably make the switch.....

I also disagree with the "Need" for a 50+ inch 1080p display.

Although our household income is higher than Captain's, I am certainly not in the category of "unlimited disposable income" and also not a "Single Guy"

I don't think these generalizations are completely accurate, although I am sure many people fall into them.

It's important to note that members of a forum are people who are actively looking to seek out information, share information, and discuss the subject matter that the forum is dedicated to, so it's no surprise that the general consensus here doesn't jive with the poll results.


I wish people would stop calling it a "Format War" there's no blood on your hands.... you're just consumers.... you can be happy that the format you invested your time and money into is still in existence, but taking it so personally is pretty childish.

It's early in Blu-ray's development/life and prices will come down, more people will buy HD TVs when their existing sets are due for upgrade, or when they drop in price, or when they get that big Christmas Bonus, or the Wedding Gift, or Move out on their own etc etc etc.....

My parents don't have a Blu-ray player or any other HD capable signal coming into their house (I'm giving them my HD DVD player when I see them at my Niece's graduation) but they now have an HD TV because their old set finally crapped out........ had their set not died on them, they'd still be using it.... many people are like that.... it's not our place to tell other people how they should spend their money, and we should all realize that outside of this forum, many people aren't interested in Blu-ray, or HD TVs, or Audio, etc.... Maybe one day they will be, but right now, they're content with what they have.... or perhaps they like to spend their money on traveling and fine dining.... nothing wrong with that.

$0.02

[crackinhedz]

...arguing about it now is futile.

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

Assuming a fair, representative sample (which might not be the case here, I do not know), 2500 is a good sample size to represent the entire nation. You don't need to poll 1 million people to get an idea what 1 million people think. Take a sociology class sometime.

you need at least a 10% random sample of any population to hold any weight. 2500 is only 10% of 25,000. Does not work. (other requirements also needed to be met first before any conclusion could be considered un-biased)

How many people are in the USA? or how many people own HDTV's? etc

...statistical methods 101.