HDR Discussion Thread

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Waboman

Shots fired

https://www-nextplatform-com.cdn.amp...atacenter/amp/

[Penton-Man]

Received a PM as to why I've used the term VFX rather than CGI, for example here - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...k#post17177054

No biggie. Reason is it’s a more general term, i.e. https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-di...en-VFX-and-CGI

Plus, they give out Oscars for best visual effects - https://oscar.go.com/news/nomination...visual-effects

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Belated Christmas present

for this scene from the 2nd trailer (Thursday throwback to bringing you the news before events happen - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...l#post15693898 ) -



and not pictured in the recently released behind the scenes trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz9lnIDdkMo#t=1s )
as the jet made various passes, lamp poles out of frame on the other side of the park from Ft. Rosecrans National cemetery –



as seen from the staging area for the production –

Pantone color of the year - https://www.cnn.com/style/article/pa...020/index.html

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Vancouver

https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/23/star-...ning-11954109/
^ because phone design was copied from a Star Trek Communicator?

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Received a PM as to why I've used the term VFX rather than CGI,

That's like saying "Why do you use the term roads instead of asphalt?"
Because CGI is a tool for making VFX.

[Staying Salty]

My apology if this has been posted elsewhere on the forum, but it does mention HDR.

It's A Wonderful Life 4K Restoration Process - YouTube

It's A Wonderful Life 4K Restoration Process - YouTube

[Noremac Mij]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The quest for thin blacks is very much an ongoing trend, yeah. Is it a genuine stylistic trend or are filmmakers doing it just because the black level on most theatrical digital projection is so shit? I can't remember what movie it was for but I read a comment from a DP that said the latter, that black is so poor anyway in cinemas that they might as well lift the blacks in the grade because at least then they know that it's going to look as it should.

It’s an absolutely horrible trend. Worse than teal/orange, shaky cam, and Vader’s “Nooooooo!”

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The quest for thin blacks is very much an ongoing trend, yeah. Is it a genuine stylistic trend or are filmmakers doing it just because the black level on most theatrical digital projection is so shit? I can't remember what movie it was for but I read a comment from a DP that said the latter, that black is so poor anyway in cinemas that they might as well lift the blacks in the grade because at least then they know that it's going to look as it should.

If that's the case, I do hope they make this public, and shout it loudly. There are people in some quarters who are obsessed with 0-nit blacks, and any film with blacks that they think are raised, regardless of whether it's director's intent, they declare this is a "fault". Even if it's very clearly director's intent, they declare the director is wrong and doesn't understand the format!

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

If that's the case, I do hope they make this public, and shout it loudly. There are people in some quarters who are obsessed with 0-nit blacks, and any film with blacks that they think are raised, regardless of whether it's director's intent, they declare this is a "fault". Even if it's very clearly director's intent, they declare the director is wrong and doesn't understand the format!

Yeah there's a lot of that going around, that if it doesn't look like how people want/expect it to look like then they cry foul.

Roger Deakins is an example of someone who doesn't like 'letterbox' blacks, not so much because of shite projectors but that he doesn't want the screen to disappear into the darkness. He wants people to experience it like a painting, that there is an appreciable 'frame' around what we're seeing, and crunching black down can lose that effect. (That also speaks to why he's so particular about his 2.39 framing and why he'll do the open matte IMAX versions for his movies but through gritted teeth; he has to play the marketing game but that doesn't mean he has to like it.)

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

That's like saying "Why do you use the term roads instead of asphalt?"
Because CGI is a tool for making VFX.

speaking of surface materials, where were you guys when it came time to tow 409



into place on the tarmac for the Vice Admiral on the set of Top Gun: Maverick? –



P.S.
distinguished looking uncredited extras (like so - https://www.facebook.com/albertsylvero
were not there to do such labor, but act)

[Noremac Mij]

Always support Tom. And the movie looks like it will have incredible stunts. But that color grade is absolutely putrid. It always amazes me how so many artists put in so much work and then some second rate colorist craps all over everything.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Noremac Mij

Always support Tom. And the movie looks like it will have incredible stunts. But that color grade is absolutely putrid. It always amazes me how so many artists put in so much work and then some second rate colorist craps all over everything.

far from 2nd rate - https://www.instagram.com/stefansonnenfeld/?hl=en
anyway, not specifically addressing HDR per se, but nice podcast to listen to especially if one is stuck in holiday traffic for understanding the collaboration between a D.P., Director and a finishing artist in the grading a feature film with regards to artistic choice, painting with a mouse, etc. from another 1st rate colorist - https://www.technicolor.com/podcasts...-clement-soret

[Noremac Mij]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

far from 2nd rate - https://www.instagram.com/stefansonnenfeld/?hl=en
anyway, not specifically addressing HDR per se, but nice podcast to listen to especially if one is stuck in holiday traffic for understanding the collaboration between a D.P., Director and a finishing artist in the grading a feature film with regards to artistic choice, painting with a mouse, etc. from another 1st rate colorist - https://www.technicolor.com/podcasts...-clement-soret

Then what is his problem exactly? Is this the look people want?

[jrcorwin3]

Originally Posted by Noremac Mij

Always support Tom. And the movie looks like it will have incredible stunts. But that color grade is absolutely putrid. It always amazes me how so many artists put in so much work and then some second rate colorist craps all over everything.

...so the guy with little to no knowledge of display calibration and film mastering/grading/editing...is now critiquing the color grading of film trailers on YouTube. Trailers he is viewing on displays which have not been properly calibrated. I can only assume that by “Retired Engineer” you actually meant the kind that operates locomotives.

Did you apply your “calibration” for laserdisc before viewing it or no?

[Streetlight]

What type of Dolby Vision do most streaming service uses?

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Streetlight

What type of Dolby Vision do most streaming service use?

Just the dynamic metadata portion, no 12 bit video extension data that is an option on disc. Sometimes, if the data is expected to be even more severely compressed on a particular streaming site, the DV encode won't even be 10 bit video, just 8 bit.


Streaming is still second fiddle to disc.

[DanBa]

Latest Multi-HDR table: added Automated Calibration column
https://twitter.com/DanielBa78/statu...08940593254401




"All displays drift over time.
Regular calibration is a necessity, not an option, if display accuracy is to be maintained."
https://www.lightillusion.com/why_calibrate.html
https://partnerhelp.netflixstudios.c...Best-Practices

Inexpensive automated calibration solution accessible to everyone should be a must-have feature:
https://store.portrait.com/consumer-software.html
https://app.spectracal.com/Documents...%20AutoCal.pdf
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...d.ipq&hl=en_US



1: External calibration software running on a laptop
2: External pattern generator
3: External colorimeter

. LG TV:
https://calmankb.groovehq.com/help/c...lg-walkthrough

. Panasonic TV:
https://kb.portrait.com/help/calman-...ic-walkthrough

. Samsung TV:
https://calmankb.groovehq.com/help/c...ng-walkthrough

. Sony TV:
https://kb.portrait.com/help/calman-...ny-walkthrough

. TCL TV:
https://www.tclusa.com/blog/ipq-engine-calibration-app

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by bytor

The HDR glitches with Roma happen with the TV app and any other device, the master itself is flawed. It happens throughout the film but one timestamp I had noted last year was at 1 hour, 17 minutes and 45 seconds in you will clearly see the color shift.

Another issue I'm having is random shows/movies having these glitches.
https://www.reddit.com/r/appletv/com..._black_bar_in/

This is only with the Apple TV though, it doesn't happen with the internal app. The Witcher has many of these random glitches. But it is show/movie specific so I imagine Netflix is using a different/flawed "file" or whatever for Apple TV compared to the internal app.

It just boggles my mind more people don't notice these kind of things because they're painfully obvious to me and have no idea who to contact to try and get them fixed.

Is the display you are feeding with the AppleTV a Dolby Vision display? I ask because for some reason AppleTV converts the DV content to HDR10 for displays that don't do DV (as expected), but they also manipulate the metadata randomly throughout. This may cause a hiccup in the display because the stream changes. This happens with any source that is DV converted internally to HDR10 by the ATV. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to be able to get hold of someone who works in the ATV group so I could see if this could be addressed and just output either a fixed metadata value or even leave MaxCLL as 0 as there are other devices this causes issues with as well. If anyone know ANYONE at Apple that may be able to help, I would really appreciate an introduction!

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The quest for thin blacks is very much an ongoing trend, yeah. Is it a genuine stylistic trend or are filmmakers doing it just because the black level on most theatrical digital projection is so shit? I can't remember what movie it was for but I read a comment from a DP that said the latter, that black is so poor anyway in cinemas that they might as well lift the blacks in the grade because at least then they know that it's going to look as it should.

Mastering houses that do grades use scopes to set black properly. I've been in a few of them and asked about the fact that they were using a D-Cinema grade projector with AWFUL black levels how they get blacks set properly if they can't even see them and they always mentioned that they use a real time scope to ensure black is at black. Obviously this isn't as much of an issue with a OLED or some BVM displays, but it is a disturbing trend for a lot of Hollywood films.

I think I've mentioned it before but it KILLS me every time I go to a Dolby Cinema and see there little marketing piece before the movie starts. You get to "YES, THE PROJECTOR IS STILL ON" with its perfect black and then the next frame the movie starts and you see a big jump up in black level. It is like they didn't even educate the graders and DPs on the PRIME benefit of the format.

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yeah there's a lot of that going around, that if it doesn't look like how people want/expect it to look like then they cry foul.

Roger Deakins is an example of someone who doesn't like 'letterbox' blacks, not so much because of shite projectors but that he doesn't want the screen to disappear into the darkness. He wants people to experience it like a painting, that there is an appreciable 'frame' around what we're seeing, and crunching black down can lose that effect. (That also speaks to why he's so particular about his 2.39 framing and why he'll do the open matte IMAX versions for his movies but through gritted teeth; he has to play the marketing game but that doesn't mean he has to like it.)

Which is interesting because his recent films don't have raised blacks. BR2049 doesn't, Sicario doesn't. Prisoners doesn't. Do some of his earlier movies have it?

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by Noremac Mij

Always support Tom. And the movie looks like it will have incredible stunts. But that color grade is absolutely putrid. It always amazes me how so many artists put in so much work and then some second rate colorist craps all over everything.

I would assume the grading is to match a lot of the look from the original film, which had that signature Bruckheimer/Scott appearance. Looks great on my display.