HDR Discussion Thread

[Scottishguy]

Originally Posted by Waboman

Who knew fake HDR was such a volatile subject. Lol. One thing we can all agree on is HDR is crayons.

East–West Schism. Between science and faith.

[Scottishguy]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

1) What did you mean then with the first rolleyes comment, or more to the point what did you think I meant that elicited that response? I hate them rolleyes smileys with a burning passion.

2) I thought you said I was in the one percent? Make your mind up.

The eye is sarcasm. And you are right, badly phrased. I meant someone else in the 1%.

But yeah, here's me in your little conflict with Vincent...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd5i...ature=youtu.be

[Geoff D]

But you're the one who first implied that his "mother tongue" wasn't of this country by way of trying to mitigate the tone of his posts, when he's coming across loud and clear to me. You're right about what you said in another thread, you're not all that great with sarcasm. Or I'm not all that great at reading your sarcasm. Or you're not all that great at reading my sarcasm. Or all of the above. Maybe we should start a 'Fake Sarcasm' thread? **** it, here's a timely vid related to KH:

The Mike Curb Congregation - Burning Bridges (with lyrics) - YouTube

[Scottishguy]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

But you're the one who first implied that his "mother tongue" wasn't of this country by way of trying to mitigate the tone of his posts. You're right about what you said in another thread, you're not all that great with sarcasm. Or I'm not all that great at reading your sarcasm. Here's a timely vid related to KH:

The Mike Curb Congregation - Burning Bridges (with lyrics) - YouTube

Maybe the concept is lost on you being English and all. But as someone who lives in an area of Edinburgh where 15% to 20% of the population are of Pakistani or Indian ethnic and cultural extraction. Who were born here, and their first language is not English.

It doesn't make them any less Scottish.

[Vincent Teoh]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Again (though) colorists here and other places have said they grade in Dolby Vision and convert to SDR, not the other way around.

Are these colourists responsible for The Mandalorian, The Irishman and Marriage Story? Or are you suggesting that because a handful of colourists here and other places said they grade in Dolby Vision and convert to SDR, all Dolby Vision shows will have undergone the same process?

How I've approached anything in life is to be sceptical about every statement... it's why I started a technical TV review site, to investigate the various claims from manufacturers about contrast ratio, "ultra wide colour gamut", "Motion Rate", "super upscaling" and other features whose veracity can be determined easily through objective measurements and testing.

Objective data peels away exaggerated claims and vague statements... it unravels the truth. If you believe that a colourist will risk his/ her career and publicly admit that a specific Dolby Vision show is upconverted from SDR, then I have a Disney+ subscription to sell you.

The proof is in the pudding... use your own eyes and judgement. The Dolby Vision presentation of The Irishman and Marriage Story on Netflix delivers little to no increase in dynamic range over the SDR version.

[Staying Salty]

Since this began with my post:

Originally Posted by Staying Salty

Star Wars in 4K HDR Dolby Vision on Disney Plus Analysis: Is It Fake HDR?

[Show spoiler]Star Wars in 4K HDR Dolby Vision on Disney Plus Analysis: Is It Fake HDR? - YouTube

We have two very qualified posters to educate us on HDR, whom have a disagreement. I propose the only possible way to settle this:

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Scottishguy

Maybe the concept is lost on you being English and all. But as someone who lives in an area of Edinburgh where 15% to 20% of the population are of Pakistani or Indian ethnic and cultural extraction. Who were born here, and their first language is not English.

It doesn't make them any less Scottish.

Oh good, now we're starting up with veiled racial insults. You know nothing about me or where I'm from. What were you saying about being passive aggressive before? Heh. My comment was a nod towards the strife between HK and mainland China, you mentioning the latter as being at the head of a new world order.

[Scottishguy]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Oh good, now we're starting up with veiled racial insults. What were you saying about being passive aggressive before? Heh.

About England? You seen what's said about Scotland on a daily basis. That observation about your country is nothing.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Scottishguy

About England? You seen what's said about Scotland on a daily basis. That observation about your country is nothing.

But am I the one saying those things about Scotland? Nope. You're tarring everyone with the same brush, don't let your own ingrained hostility get the better of you just because someone's giving you some sass and making it easy to fall back on the old standards.

All this over a ****ing Mandalorian

[Scottishguy]

Originally Posted by Staying Salty

Since this began with my post:

We have two very qualified posters to educate us on HDR, whom have a disagreement. I propose the only possible way to settle this:

I agree. Before Geoff personally comes up here to punch me in my stupid face.

[Scottishguy]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

But am I the one saying those things about Scotland? Nope. You're tarring everyone with the same brush, don't let your own ingrained hostility get the better of you just because someone's giving you some sass and making it easy to fall back on the old standards.

With an accent like mine? You bet I'm prepared for hostility anywhere south of Yorkshire

[Geoff D]

I can do a cracking Scots accent. I'm told - by my Scottish friend, ye gods! - that's it's very Glaswegian.

[Scottishguy]

If Mandalorian is the problem, it can also be the solution Go go baby yoda gif.

[Vincent Teoh]

Originally Posted by Mierzwiak

I would love to know what those objective measurements and methodology would say about "Pacific Rim" UHD. It goes far beyond 2000 nits, but has no additional highlight information compared to SDR Blu-ray.

You've answered your own question. Dynamic range = difference between largest value and smallest value. UHD Blu-ray = 2000+-nit peak brightness; 1080p Blu-ray = 100-nit peak white. 2000 nits vs 100 nits = massive difference, hence HDR vs SDR.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Scottishguy

Did you know Mr Lee in your time?

No, never had the opportunity however I’ve met/talked with people who knew him far better than Quentin did, one of whom I posted a YouTube link somewhere in the back pages of this thread.

[Jay H.]

Originally Posted by Staying Salty

Since this began with my post:

We have two very qualified posters to educate us on HDR, whom have a disagreement. I propose the only possible way to settle this:

I have a better idea. Thunderdome. 2 men enter, one man leaves. Pretty sure I've got a rusty chainsaw around here somewhere...

[Scottishguy]

Vincent I'm curious to know what viewing distances you recommend for 4K? Do you follow the school of THX, the 40 degree angle?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Vincent Teoh

You've answered your own question. Dynamic range = difference between largest value and smallest value. UHD Blu-ray = 2000+-nit peak brightness; 1080p Blu-ray = 100-nit peak white. 2000 nits vs 100 nits = massive difference, hence HDR vs SDR.

So does having an improvement in highlight range - not brightness, actual retention of highlight range vs the SDR equivalent - no longer matter then? That despite all the science showing that the HDR range is in the SDR - albeit buried by the Gamma EOTF, as it usually is - you'd be happy with the Mando being 'fake HDR' just as long as it was bright AF? The loudness wars cometh

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Vincent Teoh

....The Dolby Vision presentation of The Irishman and Marriage Story on Netflix delivers little to no increase in dynamic range over the SDR version.

My, my, so am I understanding that you’re now insinuating that The Irishman is *fake* HDR?, rather than an original HDR grade/home deliverable from which the SDR was then derived?

Please Vincent, TI was HDR -> SDR, not some automated vice versa

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Vincent Teoh

Are these colourists responsible for The Mandalorian, The Irishman and Marriage Story? Or are you suggesting that because a handful of colourists here and other places said they grade in Dolby Vision and convert to SDR, all Dolby Vision shows will have undergone the same process?

Seeing as the business of video is notoriously stingy I don't see them wasting the money. Netflix especially who has programs in 4K, 4K HDR10 *and* both 4K UHD & 1080p DV as well. Time is money. Why waste time "upconverting" when your colorist with multiple monitors just makes a QC of the SDR output of a DV title.

The proof is in the pudding... use your own eyes and judgement. The Dolby Vision presentation of The Irishman and Marriage Story on Netflix delivers little to no increase in dynamic range over the SDR version.

Ironic you should mention The Irishman since Goodfellas is one of the most "notorious" HDR titles on disc and so it shows that Scorsese is very conservative with his HDR application. It did not have to be HDR - Netflix also requests programming to be 2:1 and it's not. The Atmos track is also very conservative with both overhead and surround - but it's definitely Atmos. Not upmixed 2.0.