The Shining 4K UHD (1980)

[Zombie Dude]

Originally Posted by Christian Muth

The international cut eliminates every reference to Jack's alcoholism. I personally rate that as being pretty important myself. I wonder if Kubrick did that intentionally to further piss off King, since that was one of the holdovers from the novel and King had already started complaining about the film at that point.

Chris

Not at all. You get the whole bar scene which informs us Jack used to be an alcoholic.

[Neutron82]

I recently had the privelage of being on set and working with Shelley Duvall, holy sh*t what an experience!... I think everyone there was reluctant to ask any questions about The Shining but she brought the topic up on her own and told us some very interesting stories, she's such a great person and I hope to get a chance to talk to her again in the future

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by Zombie Dude

Not at all. You get the whole bar scene which informs us Jack used to be an alcoholic.

And that scene comes out of nowhere in the European cut, and beyond that, it doesn't inform that he "used to be an alcoholic" at all, just that he wishes he could drink at that moment. That's a pretty big conclusion to jump to based on that ONE scene- lots of non-alcoholics like to have a drink or two in times of stress like Jack is going though here. Kubrick even cut the dialogue in this very scene specifically referring to Jack having quit drinking ("Here's to five miserable months on the wagon, and all the irreparable harm that it's caused me"). Why would Kubrick cut THAT LINE if he wanted European audiences to think Jack was a recovering alcoholic? There is nothing in the European cut of THE SHINING that points to Jack being an alcoholic.

Chris

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by Neutron82

I recently had the privelage of being on set and working with Shelley Duvall, holy sh*t what an experience!... I think everyone there was reluctant to ask any questions about The Shining but she brought the topic up on her own and told us some very interesting stories, she's such a great person and I hope to get a chance to talk to her again in the future

They're having the premiere of this film at Kevin Smith's movie theater in Atlantic Highlands, NJ, on my birthday (March 11)!

Chris

[Neutron82]

Originally Posted by Christian Muth

They're having the premiere of this film at Kevin Smith's movie theater in Atlantic Highlands, NJ, on my birthday (March 11)!

Chris

awesome!... I can't wait to see it myself, speaking of Kevin Smith I happened to visit NJ last year and I made a trip to the Quick Stop Groceries store lol

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by Neutron82

awesome!... I can't wait to see it myself, speaking of Kevin Smith I happened to visit NJ last year and I made a trip to the Quick Stop Groceries store lol

I grew up right down the street and used to work there with Kevin.

Chris

[Neutron82]

Originally Posted by Christian Muth

I grew up right down the street and used to work there with Kevin.

Chris

no way that's cool!... he seems like a really cool person and what a great friend he's been to Jason Mewes

[Zombie Dude]

Originally Posted by Christian Muth

And that scene comes out of nowhere in the European cut, and beyond that, it doesn't inform that he "used to be an alcoholic" at all, just that he wishes he could drink at that moment. That's a pretty big conclusion to jump to based on that ONE scene- lots of non-alcoholics like to have a drink or two in times of stress like Jack is going though here. Kubrick even cut the dialogue in this very scene specifically referring to Jack having quit drinking ("Here's to five miserable months on the wagon, and all the irreparable harm that it's caused me"). Why would Kubrick cut THAT LINE if he wanted European audiences to think Jack was a recovering alcoholic? There is nothing in the European cut of THE SHINING that points to Jack being an alcoholic.

Chris

If you can't read between the lines then that's on you. I don't need everything spelled out for me. There enough info there to piece together that Jack once had a drinking problem.

[Alister_M]

Either way, the US cut is perfectly paced and the Euro cut feels rushed, like a TV edit that's been trimmed down to fit into a limited time-slot. Much like the difference between Braindead and Dead Alive, sometimes filmmakers just need to stop second-guessing themselves and/or trying to appeal to people with limited attention spans and let the material breathe.

[Zombie Dude]

Originally Posted by Alister_M

Either way, the US cut is perfectly paced and the Euro cut feels rushed, like a TV edit that's been trimmed down to fit into a limited time-slot. Much like the difference between Braindead and Dead Alive, sometimes filmmakers just need to stop second-guessing themselves and/or trying to appeal to people with limited attention spans and let the material breathe.

Both cuts are good and both cuts are long. I don't think think attention span has much to do with it. I've enjoyed both cuts myself. I just don't think the international is some worthless cut to be overlooked.

[Alister_M]

Originally Posted by Zombie Dude

Both cuts are good and both cuts are long. I don't think think attention span has much to do with it. I've enjoyed both cuts myself. I just don't think the international is some worthless cut to be overlooked.

There's just too much good stuff in the longer cut that I'd miss if I went back. I only ever had easy access to the shorter one until the BD came out so it was like 100 christmases at once when it ended up being the US cut, even more so when that's what ended up on the UHD. Maybe short attention spans isn't the right term for it, more like short theater spans - the insidious industry practice of shortening films to squeeze in more showings per day to increase revenue, that's what it feels like. Arbitrary cuts that don't remove any vital information but just makes the pacing feel too brisk for this type of movie.

[Christian Muth]

The abrupt cut to Wendy, Halloran, and Danny walking through the kitchen without Halloran ever even being introduced is especially jarring and awkward.

Chris

[dallywhitty]

US cut supremacy!

[raptors661]

Originally Posted by Zombie Dude

The international cut and tv cut I'm sure are two different things so I'm not sure why you would rate them together.
I don't think the international cuts anything important. It's very similar feeling to the US at a brisker pace.

It cuts almost all references to Jack being an alcoholic if I'm remembering correctly. That's some important characterization.

[Christian Muth]

There is one edit in the European cut that I think works beautifully- the straight cut from Wendy saying to Jack while she's serving him breakfast in bed, "It's just a matter of settling back into the habit of writing every day" and Jack responding "Yep, that's all it is", directly to Jack's ignored typewriter as he's throwing the tennis ball against the Colorado Room wall, thus removing Jack's "deja vu" dialogue and the dissolve to the next scene. I don't dislike that dialogue in the original cut, but that hard cut from that dialogue about getting back into writing to the ignored typewriter is just a perfect edit.

Chris

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by raptors661

It cuts almost all references to Jack being an alcoholic if I'm remembering correctly. That's some important characterization.

Deja vu

Be careful, though- Zombie Dude will be displaying his intellectual superiority because unlike him, we mere plebs can't "read between the lines".

Chris

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by Zombie Dude

If you can't read between the lines then that's on you. I don't need everything spelled out for me. There enough info there to piece together that Jack once had a drinking problem.

There are no lines to read between. Jack is not an alcoholic in the European cut, period. But thanks for the insult which was completely unnecessary!

Chris

[Cherokee Jack]

Originally Posted by Christian Muth

The international cut eliminates every reference to Jack's alcoholism. I personally rate that as being pretty important myself. I wonder if Kubrick did that intentionally to further piss off King, since that was one of the holdovers from the novel and King had already started complaining about the film at that point.

Chris

Kubrick made it clear in interviews that he didn't find King's backstory for the characters very interesting, plausible or even necessary for what he wanted to do. Besides reducing the role of alcoholism in the Euro cut (it's still there though and easy enough to spot if you've been around alcoholics or are one yourself), Kubrick also waits as long as possible to reveal Jack's history of physical abuse. This solves the problem of revealing too much too soon and also gives the film more ambiguity as to what exactly causes Jack's descent into madness. The family's drive up for example reads very differently between the two cuts: in the American one we're just waiting for Jack to explode and it's obvious Jack resents his family for his current situation; in the Euro cut Jack comes off more like an especially grumpy Clark Griswold dealing with a young child and ditzy wife. It's only once we're at the Overlook that it becomes clear something is wrong with Jack and that he's getting worse the longer he stays there. The eventual backstory reveal lets us know what Jack is capable of but by waiting so long Kubrick flips the importance of Jack/Overlook for much of the film.

Almost all the trims make the Overlook more prominent in the Euro cut: besides the shift to having the Overlook itself more responsible for Jack's mental state, we also get there sooner, we leave less often and its residents have almost no contact with the outside world. I have to assume this was by design given how notoriously meticulous Kubrick was.

Originally Posted by Christian Muth

The abrupt cut to Wendy, Halloran, and Danny walking through the kitchen without Halloran ever even being introduced is especially jarring and awkward.

Chris

The worst change in the Euro cut. The hotel tour in general feels a little choppy but it does have one of my favorite trims: Danny point blank asking Hallorann if he's scared of the Overlook rather than stalling for time first.

[bobbyh64]

The Euro cut doesn’t have Danny’s line, “Danny’s not here, Mrs. Torrance.” That line MUST be in the film IMO.

[Christian Muth]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

The Euro cut doesn’t have Danny’s line, “Danny’s not here, Mrs. Torrance.” That line MUST be in the film IMO.

If you read between the lines, you'll know that Danny's not here!

Chris