"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[wallendo]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

There are so many problems these days with our educational system and its direction that I wouldn’t know where to begin discussing them. The ole grey mare just aint what she used to be like when I went through my basic schooling.

For example, this quote is saddening…“The signs are everywhere. This year, for the first time in decades, the College Board failed to offer high-school students the Advanced Placement AB Computer Science exam. The number of high schools teaching computer science is shrinking, and last year only about 5,000 students sat for the AB test. Two decades ago, I was one of them.”

From…
http://chronicle.com/article/Decodin...mputer/125266/

I find that sad. When I first became interested in computers (~1978) much of the fun was making the computer do what you wanted it to. Now computers are just an extension of people's telephones. I know I would never be able to write programs like Aperture and Final Cut Express in BASIC. But it a shame that the new "tech-savvy" generation knows less about computers than their predecessors.

I suspect it is a problem with our society as a whole. We are increasingly becoming consumers only, and not producers.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by wallendo

I find that sad. When I first became interested in computers (~1978) much of the fun was making the computer do what you wanted it to. Now computers are just an extension of people's telephones. I know I would never be able to write programs like Aperture and Final Cut Express in BASIC. But it a shame that the new "tech-savvy" generation knows less about computers than their predecessors.

I suspect it is a problem with our society as a whole. We are increasingly becoming consumers only, and not producers.

agree

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by wallendo

I suspect it is a problem with our society as a whole. We are increasingly becoming consumers only, and not producers.

I wouldn't call it a problem with society, just the natural progression of all popular technologies. I think if you look at other major technological fields throughout history, you will notice the very same pattern.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

There are so many problems these days with our educational system and its direction that I wouldn’t know where to begin discussing them. The ole grey mare just aint what she used to be like when I went through my basic schooling.

For example, this quote is saddening…“The signs are everywhere. This year, for the first time in decades, the College Board failed to offer high-school students the Advanced Placement AB Computer Science exam. The number of high schools teaching computer science is shrinking, and last year only about 5,000 students sat for the AB test. Two decades ago, I was one of them.”

Frankly, I think Americans have become increasingly lazy. We complain about the lack of high-quality jobs, but we're no longer willing to do the work that would provide those jobs. I work for a tech company in a major city and we have an incredibly hard time finding qualified programmers. The ones we do find are mainly imported from India.

I'm also a member of the Audio Engineering Society and a few years ago, the AES published their latest special issue on the state of digital audio. Not one paper was written by an American. Americans like to be dial pushers, but when it comes to really understanding the details of engineering design, we're nowhere.

I was also a member of some standardization committees for electronic data interchange. While the demand and requirements for new formats did eminate from the U.S., all of the actual detail work for figuring out the formats was accomplished in the UK.

We tend to blame the poor educational system in the U.S. on government, teachers and unions and they certainly deserve some of the blame, but I think the larger part of the blame needs to be placed on our culture and on parents. Our culture looks down on intellect and is obsessed with trivia. A recent survey showed that more Americans can name The Three Stooges than can name the three branches of government. Some ridiculous portion of Americans cannot name the Vice-President. One of the reasons Obama's citizenship was questioned is because something like 20% of Americans don't know that Hawaii is one of the 50 states. In a 2005 poll, only 15% of Americans believed that humans evolved through evolution and that God was not involved.

The average high-school student sends out several hundred texts a day and spends an inordinate time on Facebook. These are not people who are trying to achieve anything academically. Meanwhile, the U.S. is rated something like #21 in math skills and #23 in science skills.

Most parents would prefer that their kids not get any homework because they don't want to argue with their kids over doing it. And there is no respect for authority in any way and certainly little or no respect for teachers.

We pay far more to keep a prisoner in jail than to educate a student. Until we reverse that, we'll continue to fail. The U.S. became a power because we educated the masses. But we're quickly becoming a society where only the elites in the society are getting well educated. And not that colleges are doing such a great job these days, but going forward, I believe that we'll see fewer Americans in college because it has become so expensive, few can afford it.

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Frankly, I think Americans have become increasingly lazy. We complain about the lack of high-quality jobs, but we're no longer willing to do the work that would provide those jobs. I work for a tech company in a major city and we have an incredibly hard time finding qualified programmers. The ones we do find are mainly imported from India.

I'm also a member of the Audio Engineering Society and a few years ago, the AES published their latest special issue on the state of digital audio. Not one paper was written by an American. Americans like to be dial pushers, but when it comes to really understanding the details of engineering design, we're nowhere.

I was also a member of some standardization committees for electronic data interchange. While the demand and requirements for new formats did eminate from the U.S., all of the actual detail work for figuring out the formats was accomplished in the UK.

We tend to blame the poor educational system in the U.S. on government, teachers and unions and they certainly deserve some of the blame, but I think the larger part of the blame needs to be placed on our culture and on parents. Our culture looks down on intellect and is obsessed with trivia. A recent survey showed that more Americans can name The Three Stooges than can name the three branches of government. Some ridiculous portion of Americans cannot name the Vice-President. One of the reasons Obama's citizenship was questioned is because something like 20% of Americans don't know that Hawaii is one of the 50 states. In a 2005 poll, only 15% of Americans believed that humans evolved through evolution and that God was not involved.

The average high-school student sends out several hundred texts a day and spends an inordinate time on Facebook. These are not people who are trying to achieve anything academically. Meanwhile, the U.S. is rated something like #21 in math skills and #23 in science skills.

Most parents would prefer that their kids not get any homework because they don't want to argue with their kids over doing it. And there is no respect for authority in any way and certainly little or no respect for teachers.

We pay far more to keep a prisoner in jail than to educate a student. Until we reverse that, we'll continue to fail. The U.S. became a power because we educated the masses. But we're quickly becoming a society where only the elites in the society are getting well educated. And not that colleges are doing such a great job these days, but going forward, I believe that we'll see fewer Americans in college because it has become so expensive, few can afford it.

Very well said. What you say about parents is especially true. I see similar traits with kids on my soccer team. Their parents don't want to bring them to practice more than once or twice per week because they are "too busy." At one point, I asked the kids what their parents do when they get home from work and the majority said they either watched TV or were on Facebook. When I asked if they got help with their homework, most said "no." That's pretty damn sad.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

And back at you . http://www.cinegearexpo.com/newsart.html
And where the hell have you been?

Dude, recently I literally pass out while riding my bike during a mountain bike ride and break my beautiful nose in four places, subsequently fellow riders call 911 and the firefighters 4-wheel it into the National Forest to get me out to the paramedics to take me to the E.R., where they and I discover that I’m suffering from atrial fibrillation (think too much exercise for too many years can be BAD for you <- isn't that just ironic to the nth degree? ) and then they proceed to cardiovert me and I’m still here actively posting even with a poorly controlled cardiac arrhythmia. Next step will eventually most likely be a 6 hr. heart ablation procedure at Cedars.

So, what’s your excuse?

Penton,

Glad to hear you're coming along. As someone who has studied exercise science and who has worked out for over 20 years, I can tell you that AF and other heart problems are not uncommon with people who excessively do aerobic type activity (long distance runners in particular). Overtraining is a major problem with many people who are serious and dedicated to training. Proper recovery cannot be over-emphasized. More is not better.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Frankly, I think Americans have become increasingly lazy. We complain about the lack of high-quality jobs, but we're no longer willing to do the work that would provide those jobs. I work for a tech company in a major city and we have an incredibly hard time finding qualified programmers. The ones we do find are mainly imported from India.

I'm also a member of the Audio Engineering Society and a few years ago, the AES published their latest special issue on the state of digital audio. Not one paper was written by an American. Americans like to be dial pushers, but when it comes to really understanding the details of engineering design, we're nowhere.

I was also a member of some standardization committees for electronic data interchange. While the demand and requirements for new formats did eminate from the U.S., all of the actual detail work for figuring out the formats was accomplished in the UK.

We tend to blame the poor educational system in the U.S. on government, teachers and unions and they certainly deserve some of the blame, but I think the larger part of the blame needs to be placed on our culture and on parents. Our culture looks down on intellect and is obsessed with trivia. A recent survey showed that more Americans can name The Three Stooges than can name the three branches of government. Some ridiculous portion of Americans cannot name the Vice-President. One of the reasons Obama's citizenship was questioned is because something like 20% of Americans don't know that Hawaii is one of the 50 states. In a 2005 poll, only 15% of Americans believed that humans evolved through evolution and that God was not involved.

The average high-school student sends out several hundred texts a day and spends an inordinate time on Facebook. These are not people who are trying to achieve anything academically. Meanwhile, the U.S. is rated something like #21 in math skills and #23 in science skills.

Most parents would prefer that their kids not get any homework because they don't want to argue with their kids over doing it. And there is no respect for authority in any way and certainly little or no respect for teachers.

We pay far more to keep a prisoner in jail than to educate a student. Until we reverse that, we'll continue to fail. The U.S. became a power because we educated the masses. But we're quickly becoming a society where only the elites in the society are getting well educated. And not that colleges are doing such a great job these days, but going forward, I believe that we'll see fewer Americans in college because it has become so expensive, few can afford it.

I agree with much your post, but prisons are obviously necessary so there will always be a certain (expensive) cost there.

The U.S. actually spends a lot more money than other countries when it comes to education, so I don't think money is the main problem. It's startling to see how well some private schools do on far, far less spending.

I think it's mostly the curriculum as far as the problem *in* schools (yes, parents are another problem out of school). For example, for years, many public schools made the moronic mistake to quit teaching basics such as phonics (replaced with 'whole language') which resulted in a drop in reading skills, although phonics has made a comeback. There have also been some very questionable methods of teaching math in some public schools. Public schools have become too political and take on too many educational fads IMO. (I used to work in a public school system.)

Regarding college, the prices are ridiculous particularly when they are getting public funding. I completed my Masters in 2001 and was paying $500 per credit hour. I cannot imagine what they are charging today and the money isn't really going to the instructors as their salaries are not extraordinarly high. Answer: They have become too bloated with administrative costs, etc.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Our culture looks down on intellect and is obsessed with trivia. A recent survey showed that more Americans can name The Three Stooges than can name the three branches of government...

Yep , and the only upside I can see, is that it makes great fodder for some of Jay’s late night shows….
http://www.nbc.com/the-tonight-show/..._cid=thefilter

http://www.nbc.com/the-tonight-show/..._cid=thefilter (Denon, I think you’ll love this ).

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Yep , and the only upside I can see, is that it makes great fodder for some of Jay’s late night shows….
http://www.nbc.com/the-tonight-show/..._cid=thefilter

http://www.nbc.com/the-tonight-show/..._cid=thefilter (Denon, I think you’ll love this ).

I've defended Leno many times on other stuff, but this is a clear example of where his humour is just... Baffling. I'm convinced the joke is that people are laughing at people who don't know the answers when they themselves are clueless (see stats above).

At least Leno's stuff is reemphasizing our views of 'Merica http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seYUbVa7L7w (watch to the end, the education system might not be so broken )

Meanwhile, go COCO.

But anyhoo, THIS little bit of NBC awesomeness should be appreciated by both of us:

http://www.latenightwithjimmyfallon....use-the-night/

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

http://www.nbc.com/the-tonight-show/..._cid=thefilter (Denon, I think you’ll love this ).

Too funny. The only answer I didn't know was who married Benjamin Pratt (?).

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

I've defended Leno many times on other stuff, but this is a clear example of where his humour is just... Baffling. I'm convinced the joke is that people are laughing at people who don't know the answers when they themselves are clueless (see stats above).

Jay's been doing Jaywalking for years & years now. People laugh because those who do get the questions feel better about themselves.

Meanwhile, go COCO.

I don't get those who think if you enjoy Jay you won't enjoy Conan and vice versa.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by DenonCI

Too funny. The only answer I didn't know was who married Benjamin Pratt (?).

Spencer Pratt or Benjamin Bratt. Pick one!

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Spencer Pratt or Benjamin Bratt. Pick one!

Oops...like I said, I didn't know who the heck he was speaking about. I thought it was funny that the lady didn't even have to think about the answer...the dude is married to Heidi ????. Damn I'm clueless.

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Jay's been doing Jaywalking for years & years now. People laugh because those who do get the questions feel better about themselves.



I don't get those who think if you enjoy Jay you won't enjoy Conan and vice versa.

I think you can like the Beatles and Elvis, but not sure you can like them equally.

On an unrelated note, how's this for an insane ad (and they've dubbed in my city and its transit system for an Emirate, no less)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvl7k...layer_embedded

I promise you our subway ain't that cool, but it should be!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

I've defended Leno many times on other stuff, but this is a clear example of where his humour is just... Baffling.

Shark, the jist of the matter is, that it is so sad,...it's funny at this point.
Again, I suspect, Denon should appreciate the humor here.....

http://www.nbc.com/the-tonight-show/...party/1256397/

I wish everyone a Happy Thanksgiving.

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

I think it's mostly the curriculum as far as the problem *in* schools (yes, parents are another problem out of school). For example, for years, many public schools made the moronic mistake to quit teaching basics such as phonics (replaced with 'whole language') which resulted in a drop in reading skills, although phonics has made a comeback.

Well, the actual problem is that a school has to pick one or the other. How you teach a kid to read should be based on the kid, not the prevailing thought at the moment about what's best.

For example, phonics is silly to me with my learning style. When I see people as adults trying to sound out words I feel like I'm talking to a six-year-old. I learned to read by recognition, or "whole language" as you state, and I was reading some words at two, and reading books myself by 4. By 6 I was into chapter books on my own.

Now, for some kids that wouldn't work. For me, it did. It means I'm not the best at spelling (because I don't pick apart words to know what they are), but I'm a super fast reader with higher than normal comprehension.

Some kids learn some ways, some kids learn other was. As soon as we get that and stop the whole "let's teach every kid the same" we'll make some progress.

[cjamescook]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

...I think I can get over the sacrifice of caffeine and alcohol with time but, if they tell me next that I can’t watch ‘Miku’ shake her booty anymore ….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTXO7...layer_embedded

because it would be bad for my heart and throw me into a-fib, then I’m really, really going to be a sad cowboy. As THAT would be far too great a sacrifice to endure.

Well, according to a (Canadian) friend that had a valve job (twice), there is good news and bad news in this general area. The good news is that they seem to staff the cutest nurses in the ICU (YMMV). He theorizes this is deliberate staffing to motivate improved recovery. The bad news? They sorta regard you as just a slab of meat. Sigh.

Anyway, Penton-dude, sorry we can't send you a card, real or virtual, but best of luck to you.

[DenonCI]

Happy Thanksgiving as well.

I sincerely hope people aren't that stupid.

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

Now, for some kids that wouldn't work. For me, it did. It means I'm not the best at spelling (because I don't pick apart words to know what they are), but I'm a super fast reader with higher than normal comprehension.

This is the BEST articulation of why I've been incapable since a very early age of spelling with any for of consistency, but always scored extremely high in comprehension. Thank you, I've 'till now attributed it to my general laziness and derision of all things that require overt memorization and repetition. Of course, in my case it'll naturally be a combination of the two...

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

This is the BEST articulation of why I've been incapable since a very early age of spelling with any for of consistency, but always scored extremely high in comprehension. Thank you, I've 'till now attributed it to my general laziness and derision of all things that require overt memorization and repetition. Of course, in my case it'll naturally be a combination of the two...

Hehe.

I have the same aversion. People that learn by phonics learn to spell more accurately because they follow along with the letters, whereas learning by recognition (at least that's what I've always called it) you just look at a word and know what it is and don't particularly care the exact order.

IMO, when you spend so much time sounding out words, even if it's more quickly where you get used to doing it as an adult, you can miss the bigger picture more easily.

Both methods work differently on different people - which is why any system set up for one or another is going to fail someone.