"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[HeavyHitter]

It's being reported that Fox is denying the use of "grain removal" on Patton.

http://www.dvdfile.com/index.php?opt...k=view&id=6776

Key quote:

More important for me at the Fox demo was the opportunity to discuss the Internet buzz concerning the allegations that Fox applied excessive digital noise reduction (DNR) when it prepared Patton for release on Blu-ray Disc. I asked Senior Vice President of Corporate & Marketing Communications Steve Feldstein about this controversy that’s making the rounds of the forums. He immediately text-messaged the people responsible for the transfer and within minutes he was called. I’m told that the transfer was derived from highly revealing, low grain 70 mm source elements and that no grain removal was applied.

Ron Esptein from HTF commented, as well:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...blu-ray-2.html

I spoke to someone very high up the Fox ladder yesterday afternoon
concerning this situation. The response I essentially received was
that of surprise and denial that any DNR was applied to Patton
or any other title that Fox has recently released to Blu-ray. In fact,
there was text messaging going on between my contact and the
restoration team. I was again told that nobody was applying DNR
to their releases and that it seemed that perhaps there were certain
people out there that were trying to stir the pot by claiming otherwise.

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by Paul H

Agreed.

How about accolades for a recent film on Blu-ray disc: Paramount's "The Spiderwick Chronicles"? A review mentioned that "Grain is noticeably absent" Blu-ray.com Review, but when I viewed it projected on a 110" screen @ 1080p native resoluion, the film grain was present and as much as I remember it in the movie theater.

Another review mentioned "There are some soft moments when computer-generated effects dominate the action, but this is to be expected." The Admiral's Corner Review, but when I viewed it the CG effects are sharper than I remember when viewing the film in the theater.

What was suprising to me is the emotions this movie captured on screen, an acknowledgment not given lightly which deserves recongnition and a special review, IMHO.

Paul

Film grain was obvious through most of Spiderwick and fine detail was preserved nicely. Some of the CG effects looked softer than the live action shots but I see that time and again. I imagine it has more to do with budget for VFX than anything with encoding.

[Alan Gordon]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

As I said roughly a year ago, “keep in mind the studios ….any of the studios aren’t forced to do new transfers” so, I would hope to see a proportionate amount of online accolades for Guns of Navarone when it debuts on Blu-ray, as compared to the amount of displeasure expressed for Gangs of New York……………if videophiles desire some studios to put out the dough for new HD masters on some older films.

Some people have given it high praise, some people were disappointed with it, and I have NO idea how old the master was, but kudos to the 'geekster and co. for producing what (appears in my head) to be a TOP-NOTCH transfer of "Men In Black"...

~Alan<~~~~~~~Who only wishes he could figure out how to work the BD Live interface...

[WickyWoo]

Note the wording:

I’m told that the transfer was derived from highly revealing, low grain 70 mm source elements and that no grain removal was applied.

Very likely 100% true. And that would be true for almost every DNR'd title out there. However, what was done with it between those source elements and the compression bay is wherein the question lies.

I'm going to attribute it to operator error myself.

[pellucidity]

Not all that Blu-ray related, but I thought Penton might be amused to see Amir get a subtle smacking from BillG in an email thread about Moviemaker:

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/m...moviemaker.pdf

[PeterTHX]

Speaking of Amir over on AVS he posted a screenshot of Patton "without DNR".

Well, what is it then?

[blitz6speed]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Speaking of Amir over on AVS he posted a screenshot of Patton "without DNR".

Well, what is it then?

He took the screenshot posted and used a add grain filter in photoshop. He then reposted the image and said "dont ask where it came from" as if he has some inside connection. Pathetic.

[bdrex28]

Originally Posted by blitz6speed

He took the screenshot posted and used a add grain filter in photoshop. He then reposted the image and said "dont ask where it came from" as if he has some inside connection. Pathetic.

Par for the course really.

[neo_reloaded]

Originally Posted by blitz6speed

He took the screenshot posted and used a add grain filter in photoshop. He then reposted the image and said "dont ask where it came from" as if he has some inside connection. Pathetic.

I'm pretty sure that's an attempt at humor.

[WickyWoo]

Once again showing how little Amir knows about film

Ah, there's nothing like hatred of Amir to re-create harmony

[Rob Tomlin]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

It's being reported that Fox is denying the use of "grain removal" on Patton.

http://www.dvdfile.com/index.php?opt...k=view&id=6776

Key quote:

More important for me at the Fox demo was the opportunity to discuss the Internet buzz concerning the allegations that Fox applied excessive digital noise reduction (DNR) when it prepared Patton for release on Blu-ray Disc. I asked Senior Vice President of Corporate & Marketing Communications Steve Feldstein about this controversy that’s making the rounds of the forums. He immediately text-messaged the people responsible for the transfer and within minutes he was called. I’m told that the transfer was derived from highly revealing, low grain 70 mm source elements and that no grain removal was applied.

Ron Esptein from HTF commented, as well:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...blu-ray-2.html

I spoke to someone very high up the Fox ladder yesterday afternoon
concerning this situation. The response I essentially received was
that of surprise and denial that any DNR was applied to Patton
or any other title that Fox has recently released to Blu-ray. In fact,
there was text messaging going on between my contact and the
restoration team. I was again told that nobody was applying DNR
to their releases and that it seemed that perhaps there were certain
people out there that were trying to stir the pot by claiming otherwise.

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

Very likely 100% true. And that would be true for almost every DNR'd title out there. However, what was done with it between those source elements and the compression bay is wherein the question lies.

I'm going to attribute it to operator error myself.

..

[mhafner]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

Note the wording:
Very likely 100% true. And that would be true for almost every DNR'd title out there. However, what was done with it between those source elements and the compression bay is wherein the question lies.
I'm going to attribute it to operator error myself.

Sounds unlikely to me. It does not look like a random error but systematic and well planned degraining from start to finish. Nothing comparable to say "Scary Movie" with horror DNR from sledgehammer city. It looks very professionally done, just without fine detail and with a consistent unnatural smooth look. Downscale the 1080p to 480p and it looks perfect.

[irfoton]

check out this Bill Gates rant about MovieMaker.

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/m...ves/141821.asp

Do a search on Amir. He's only mentioned once but I assume it's the same person we all love.

[pellucidity]

Originally Posted by irfoton

check out this Bill Gates rant about MovieMaker.

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/m...ves/141821.asp

Do a search on Amir. He's only mentioned once but I assume it's the same person we all love.

I just posted this; yes, it's the same Amir.

[lgans316]

For what it's worth, it should be remembered that Fox, through HTF (and Epstein) also adamantly denied that they used any Edge Enhancement on Star Wars: The Phantom Menace. I don't know if the same people were involved then as now, however.

The response from FOX proves that "Serial Killers don't confess to their crimes"

[WickyWoo]

Sounds unlikely to me. It does not look like a random error but systematic and well planned degraining from start to finish. Nothing comparable to say "Scary Movie" with horror DNR from sledgehammer city. It looks very professionally done, just without fine detail and with a consistent unnatural smooth look. Downscale the 1080p to 480p and it looks perfect.

A look that can be achieved with a "set it and forget it" DNR application

[JadedRaverLA]

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

Very likely 100% true. And that would be true for almost every DNR'd title out there.

I can't think of ANY other titles that was shot on 65mm and then had it claimed that excessive DNR was responsible for the lack of grain on the Blu-ray. Show us the 8k master... you'll see grain if you look close enough. 1080p really is TOO LOW a resolution to truly capture it from a clean 65mm negative. Patton is not the atrocity people are making it out to be. That's not to say (at all) that mistakes weren't made in the mastering process, but all this outcry is ridiculous IMO.

Originally Posted by WickyWoo

Once again showing how little Amir knows about film. Ah, there's nothing like hatred of Amir to re-create harmony

QFT. If he wasn't on my ignore list over there, I'd have a more detailed response, but I just don't care enough to read his nonsense any longer.

[irfoton]

Originally Posted by pellucidity

I just posted this; yes, it's the same Amir.

Oops, didn't see that. It's worth posting twice though

[mhafner]

Originally Posted by JadedRaverLA

I can't think of ANY other titles that was shot on 65mm and then had it claimed that excessive DNR was responsible for the lack of grain on the Blu-ray.

For the tenth time. The complaint is not so much about the lack of grain but the lack of fine detail plus some EE at times and a general unfilmlike oversmoothed look. Fine detail that should be there in abundance, considering the source!

[DigitalfreakNYC]

Wicky,

What happened to the release announcements that were hinted at? Seems like we didn't get much this week.