"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Alan Gordon]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Probably?

Most definitely.

640k DD is pretty much as close as you can get to full lossless, and it doesn't roll off the higher frequencies like 768kbps DTS does.

I said probably because I had no idea what kind of bitrate DTS offered on the DVD. Though I own it on DVD, I don't remember which soundtrack I watched it with, and certainly never paid much attention to the bitrate.

I'm not going to touch the "640k DD is pretty much as close as you can get to full lossless", but I'm willing to believe that most, if not all would be hard pressed to hear the difference in the Blu-ray vs. DVD of that particular title.

~Alan

[Jeff Kleist]

DTS, outside of about 2 dozen titles from Universal and WB (plus a few independants) were all 768kbps. The fact that they ran 4db hotter and often retained the theatrical mix instead of a mix designed for maximum compatibility often made them sound better than their DD counterparts

640kbps DD and 1.5mbps DTS (the vanilla forms you find on BLu-ray) are pretty much a wash, both of which are superior to the 384/448kbps DD and 768kbps DTS found on the vast majority of DVDs.

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

DTS, outside of about 2 dozen titles from Universal and WB (plus a few independants) were all 768kbps. The fact that they ran 4db hotter and often retained the theatrical mix instead of a mix designed for maximum compatibility often made them sound better than their DD counterparts

640kbps DD and 1.5mbps DTS (the vanilla forms you find on BLu-ray) are pretty much a wash, both of which are superior to the 384/448kbps DD and 768kbps DTS found on the vast majority of DVDs.

Didnt a lot of the earlier DTS tracks use 1.5Mbps? Saving Private Ryan and Apollo 13 come to mind, no?

I remember them being reference quality at the time and still represent the best DVD has to offer.

[Jeff Kleist]

Private Ryan was the first 768kbps DTS disc

Apollo 13 was part of the Uni batch I was talking about

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Private Ryan was the first 768kbps DTS disc

And many people used it as a Demo because of it's "superior" 1.5Mbps soundtrack (until they found out it wasn't )

[Brain Sturgeon]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

...hey, sweet, proof positive about my reasons for why DTS is championed on forums over Dolby, in this case without all the facts, and once again -nothing- to do with differences in sound quality. And with a format bashing for good measure!

Yeah, feel free to scroll up a few posts and google "lossless" audio and it'll all begin to make more sense.

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Probably?

Most definitely.

640k DD is pretty much as close as you can get to full lossless, and it doesn't roll off the higher frequencies like 768kbps DTS does.

So, flipping the coin here, why the championing/support of Dolby over DTS? If D THD and DTS-HD MA produce equivalent losslessly compacted audio tracks outside of the issues with variances in dialogue normalization, who cares what the studios choose to use as long as they choose lossless?

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Brain Sturgeon

So, flipping the coin here, why the championing/support of Dolby over DTS? If D THD and DTS-HD MA produce equivalent losslessly compacted audio tracks outside of the issues with variances in dialogue normalization, who cares what the studios choose to use as long as they choose lossless?

Because TrueHD has far greater compatibility, even some first gen BD players are able to decode it.

Less DSP horsepower, cheaper to implement.

No "pop" issues. There are thousands of people still out there with faulty DTS-designed DSPs that could blow out their speakers.

Features: DRC is very important to those (like me) who screen films with older parents and young children (and those in apartments). Watching a movie like Bolt in DTS becomes an excersise in remote-volume control, where Iron Man in TrueHD was not. Not to mention those with limited range speaker setups (there are MILLIONS of people with cheap HTIBs out there, sad...but that's a fact).

No flagging issues, is it ES? Or HD or MA? Why is my PS3 6.1 where if I bitstream it it's 5.1?

Less space. TrueHD can go to "0" if need be. DTS-MA cannot exist without it's core. Speaking of cores 640kDD >< 1536kbps DTS.

You think Sony will be able to offer multiple DTS-MA tracks on their discs as they have with TrueHD? Even Universal reverts to standard DTS for tracks other than the original language.

Finally, if Sony were to "reissue" something that was TrueHD before in DTS-MA it's really going to sound different?

[Esox50]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Thanks for the constructive criticism and feedback.
I'm just personally glad that I'm not involved in that aspect.

Still don't have the movie cash for A&D. HAHAHA. Thought for sure it would show up after the long holiday weekend.

Pretty soon, I'll just send a note to the redemption address in NY and request that they go ahead and just send me the Blu-Ray.

BTW, what is a cadillac martini? I'm not a martini guy. More of a Single Malt Scotch and beer guy. Havana cigars too of course.

[Mr. Cinema]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Features: DRC is very important to those (like me) who screen films with older parents and young children (and those in apartments). Watching a movie like Bolt in DTS becomes an excersise in remote-volume control, where Iron Man in TrueHD was not. Not to mention those with limited range speaker setups (there are MILLIONS of people with cheap HTIBs out there, sad...but that's a fact).

When I'm watching an action movie, I am constantly turning down the volume during explosions and up during the quieter, dialogue driven scenes. I live in a townhouse, so I also don't want the volume up too high. Would using DRC help at all? I care much more about the dialogue volume and often times, it's hard for me to hear some of it during certain movies. So I'll have it cranked up high to hear it, then BOOM, an action scene occurs and I'm reaching for the remote.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema

When I'm watching an action movie, I am constantly turning down the volume during explosions and up during the quieter, dialogue driven scenes. I live in a townhouse, so I also don't want the volume up too high. Would using DRC help at all? I care much more about the dialogue volume and often times, it's hard for me to hear some of it during certain movies. So I'll have it cranked up high to hear it, then BOOM, an action scene occurs and I'm reaching for the remote.

That's what the "Night Mode" that TrueHD and regular Dolby Digital is all about.

DRC levels it out so soft sounds aren't too soft and loud events (such as the boom) no longer send the neighbors to your door.

DTS doesn't support this (supposedly it does but I have yet to see a disc or playback unit that supports that feature for them).

[sharkshark]

excellent arguments, Peter, and not once trying to claim audio superiority of one format over the other.

Anybody have a reasoned argument why DTS HD MA is better? Some may -want- the 1.5kb/s core (equal to the 640DD or not), but are there any other main reasons to support DTS over DD excepting bias regarding Dialnorm and previous format considerations? 7.1 any better/easier with DTS? Higher frequencies maybe? (comparing bitrate for lossy is of course a non-starter).


For me, with my setup, they're a wash, but I'd like to see as compelling an argument as Peter has presented -for- DTS.

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Because TrueHD has far greater compatibility, even some first gen BD players are able to decode it.

Less DSP horsepower, cheaper to implement.

No "pop" issues. There are thousands of people still out there with faulty DTS-designed DSPs that could blow out their speakers.

Features: DRC is very important to those (like me) who screen films with older parents and young children (and those in apartments). Watching a movie like Bolt in DTS becomes an excersise in remote-volume control, where Iron Man in TrueHD was not. Not to mention those with limited range speaker setups (there are MILLIONS of people with cheap HTIBs out there, sad...but that's a fact).

No flagging issues, is it ES? Or HD or MA? Why is my PS3 6.1 where if I bitstream it it's 5.1?

Less space. TrueHD can go to "0" if need be. DTS-MA cannot exist without it's core. Speaking of cores 640kDD >< 1536kbps DTS.

You think Sony will be able to offer multiple DTS-MA tracks on their discs as they have with TrueHD? Even Universal reverts to standard DTS for tracks other than the original language.

Finally, if Sony were to "reissue" something that was TrueHD before in DTS-MA it's really going to sound different?

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema

When I'm watching an action movie, I am constantly turning down the volume during explosions and up during the quieter, dialogue driven scenes. I live in a townhouse, so I also don't want the volume up too high. Would using DRC help at all? I care much more about the dialogue volume and often times, it's hard for me to hear some of it during certain movies. So I'll have it cranked up high to hear it, then BOOM, an action scene occurs and I'm reaching for the remote.

Yes, DRC will help.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Esox50

Still don't have the movie cash for A&D. HAHAHA. Thought for sure it would show up after the long holiday weekend.

Pretty soon, I'll just send a note to the redemption address in NY and request that they go ahead and just send me the Blu-Ray.

BTW, what is a cadillac martini? I'm not a martini guy. More of a Single Malt Scotch and beer guy. Havana cigars too of course.

Esox, clean the wax out of your ears, I said Cadillac Margarita -
My personal taste is for this recipe………
http://www.expertvillage.com/video/1...cmargarita.htm

[Penton-Man]

I just wanted to bring people’s attention to a post I made on the “survey” thread that bears reading given certain speculation(s)…………
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...=1#post1945658

No further comment.

[Jeff Kleist]

Penton, check your PM's particuarly the second one I sent you

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Esox, clean the wax out of your ears, I said Cadillac Margarita -
My personal taste is for this recipe………
http://www.expertvillage.com/video/1...cmargarita.htm

Great choice in drinks

[Starfleet Officer]

Thanks for the comments Alan, your opinion is greatly appreciated.
However i'm not from the US.

[Alan Gordon]

Originally Posted by Starfleet Officer

Thanks for the comments Alan, your opinion is greatly appreciated.
However i'm not from the US.

The UK release of T3 by Sony has Dolby TrueHD which will definately be superior to your DVD version. I think there are a couple of other releases (German? Japanese?) as well, but I'm not sure what they are. I'd be tempted to upgrade from the US BD release myself, but since it's not one of my favorite films, I'll probably wait for the re-release with T5 since I'm kind of anal about all languages and ratings stuck onto foreign (to me) releases.

~Alan

[Esox50]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Esox, clean the wax out of your ears, I said Cadillac Margarita -

I knew that. I was just testing to see if you'd catch it. You passed the test. Bravo amigo, bravo!!!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Penton, check your PM's particuarly the second one I sent you

For cripes sakes Jeff, you've sent me like 5 in a row.
It's difficult to keep up.