"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[42041]

Originally Posted by aramis109

*edit* Man, it just goes to show that no matter what you do to improve a product, someone is going to ***** about it. I personally can't fathom that.

I'm really not *****ing as long as video quality is not compromised, I just find many audiophile claims extremely questionable. The Nyquist-Shannon theorem predicts that subwoofer frequency signals can be perfectly reconstructed with CD sampling rates, so I have trouble buying that the low end would improve tangibly in a (otherwise identical) 96khz mix.

I can't recall seeing a poorly compressed Sony disc, but based on my viewings of a few recent releases, certain studios can't afford to divert any more bandwidth from the video track...

[kpkelley]

Originally Posted by 42041

I can't recall seeing a poorly compressed Sony disc, but based on my viewings of a few recent releases, certain studios can't afford to divert any more bandwidth from the video track...

I'm sure the bandwith was not the issue, but rather the decision to include a low bit-rate video transfer so they could either include more special features or fit it onto a single layer disc.

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by kpkelley

I'm sure the bandwith was not the issue, but rather the decision to include a low bit-rate video transfer so they could either include more special features or fit it onto a single layer disc.

Or to ensure an easier encode for download services such as Netflix, XBOX Live, etc.

[Blu Titan]

Originally Posted by merrick97

Well, its nice to see that the bluray of UP ended up as #6 in sales of overall packaged media. It appears dvd bundling had a nice effect. It seems to have sold 1.25 million copies on bluray.

Id say thats a nice Chuck Norris roundhouse kick to the face of the naysayers.

Monsters Inc was #6 in overall sales. Up BD was actually #2 . Top 20 Sellers

[Tok]

Originally Posted by Blu Titan

Monsters Inc was #6 in overall sales. Up BD was actually #2 . Top 20 Sellers

Actually UP was #1 in sales, it was #2 in rentals.

[Blu Titan]

Originally Posted by CraigW

Actually UP was #1 in sales, it was #2 in rentals.

I am referring to the Blu-ray version. Up DVD was the #1 seller for the week, and Up Blu-ray was the #2 seller for the week. Obviously, Up the movie was the #1 seller for the week.

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by DenonCI

I dman near spit my Diet Coke out when I read this just now...how appropriate considering the discussion that went on earlier this week:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,576009,00.html

Wow, can't let it go... and foxnews to boot! No wonder you brushed aside Jeff's comments about digging into the credentials of those supporting your claim...

Ah, well, I'll say it again - wasn't Penton explicit that we were supposed to collectively drop this topic?

[neo_reloaded]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

and new releases including Angels & Demons, Easy Rider, Punch Drunk Love, The Quick and the Dead, Silverado and sex, lies, and videotape.

Clearly Sony's planning it - now it just needs to come out! That's one I'm dying for.

[Alan Gordon]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Attention: Sony Pictures Home Entertainment is interested in YOUR feedback

I missed the boat when "The Ugly Truth" was $20.99 on Amazon, so unfortunately, I have yet to experience movieIQ, but I LOVE the idea, so I'm hopeful. I think I'm going to buy "Angels And Demons", so maybe I'll get to see what it looks like in a week or two...

On a seperate question, but one regarding Sony, I noticed that "Black Dynamite" has been put up for pre-order on Amazon... with an MSRP of $34.95. Is this new Day & Date pricing, or just on a case-by-case basis?

~Alan

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

Wow, can't let it go... and foxnews to boot! No wonder you brushed aside Jeff's comments about digging into the credentials of those supporting your claim...

Ah, well, I'll say it again - wasn't Penton explicit that we were supposed to collectively drop this topic?

As I said to Max in PM...I didn't see Penton's message until it was forwarded to me. I apologize to all involved.

[coolmilo]

Hi Penton,

The new Pixar movie Up was an all around perfect Blu-ray. Not only are the picture, sound, and movie glorious, the Blu-ray disc is technically complete as well. What I mean by this is when the disk is paused the onscreen graphic displays the time and chapter. The movie will resume from the place where it was stopped when start is pressed again. Another cool thing is the previews can be skipped with a press of a button. Overall, Up plays like a technically complete Blu-ray disc.

I realize that some of these features are already offered with some Blu-ray discs and some features are not. In the past, Blu-ray enthusiasts requested that the default sound is set to the lossless audio track and the studios listened and it was done. Would it be possible to ask the studios to follow Disney’s lead and include all the cool usability features that are included with Pixar’s Up? It is really cool to have all these features included with the packaged media.

Thanks...

[Jeff Kleist]

Many Blu-rays offer the display timeline, and resume is becoming standard.

One thing you have to understand is that BD-J apps are proprietary, and so developers have to replicate without violating the intellectual property of the others, or license it (and they're often not available for licensing) from the creator. This isn't like DVD where there was a limited number of things you could actually do with it, most of which involved juggling numbers around in the buffer to change playback behavior. Disney has a literal BD-J thinktank, which is why you see a lot of stuff on their discs first (not that the other studios are slouching mind you )

So as each developer comes up with their own applications, you'll see these sorts of things become part of the cookie cutter in the next 12 months or so

[cjamescook]

Originally Posted by aramis109

I recognize what you're saying, but I don't agree with your assesment that 96khz can't do anything over 48khz. Akira's Japanese 192khz track is supposedly well beyond anything that we can detect aurally yet it is far and away the most jaw-dropping sound mix that I have heard...

I'm not going to say I'm an audio expert, as I'm not, but I was more titillated that Penton mentioned the "floor rattling effect" that I had brought up in another thread than the 96khz mix. I'm more inclined to believe this effect is from the overall care and time spent on the audio rather than just throwing a higher bitrate at it. And yes, LFE channel extends to 120hz...

I'll admit I am on thin ice here, but...

Normal audio CDs have an inadequate 44.1 Khz sample rate, requiring anti-aliasing filters so that frequencies that are too high are filtered out instead of being reproduced as a low tone (the alias).

Does 48 Khz Blu-ray audio require the same filtering?
Does such filtering also kill some low frequencies?
Does 96 Khz audio bypass this filtering?
(Is the filtering pre-compression at the authoring facility or post-decompression in the home player? If the latter, can it be bypassed?)

If all this makes sense to you, then it may make sense why 96 Khz may sound better.

By the way, a friend this weekend claimed to hear of the following experiment:
Speakers were set up with a 40 Khz top end (instead of speakers topping out at the usual 20 Khz). The test audience reported a much more realistic sound. The theory is that the higher frequency, while beyond human hearing, causes lower frequency resonances that we can hear, which improves realism.

Lastly, if you are with me still, try the following link to a summary on "Frequency Range of Human Hearing."
Of particular interest is the quote, "The highest frequency that a normal middle-aged adult can hear is only 12-14 kilohertz."

The links at the bottom of the page lead to low and high frequency response checks. So, go test your ears!

[Jeff Kleist]

Any of that kind of filtering would be done in mastering. DVD production houses are all plug and play, they shove the audio into the encoder and what goes in is what comes out

[Tok]

Originally Posted by cjamescook

I'll admit I am on thin ice here, but...

Normal audio CDs have an inadequate 44.1 Khz sample rate, requiring anti-aliasing filters so that frequencies that are too high are filtered out instead of being reproduced as a low tone (the alias).

Does 48 Khz Blu-ray audio require the same filtering?
Does such filtering also kill some low frequencies?
Does 96 Khz audio bypass this filtering?
(Is the filtering pre-compression at the authoring facility or post-decompression in the home player? If the latter, can it be bypassed?)

If all this makes sense to you, then it may make sense why 96 Khz may sound better.

By the way, a friend this weekend claimed to hear of the following experiment:
Speakers were set up with a 40 Khz top end (instead of speakers topping out at the usual 20 Khz). The test audience reported a much more realistic sound. The theory is that the higher frequency, while beyond human hearing, causes lower frequency resonances that we can hear, which improves realism.

Lastly, if you are with me still, try the following link to a summary on "Frequency Range of Human Hearing."
Of particular interest is the quote, "The highest frequency that a normal middle-aged adult can hear is only 12-14 kilohertz."

The links at the bottom of the page lead to low and high frequency response checks. So, go test your ears!

Similiar things have been done in the past. What they heard was the harmonics of the higher frequencies that fell into the human hearing range. The thing is that each subsequent harmonic is lower in power.

I would say it sounds different, but it is a very subtle differences.

48kHz sampling is more than adequate. And remember that every system employs filtering to limit aliasing

[jdc115]

Originally Posted by CraigW

Human hearing range is 20Hz-20kHz. Nyquist's law says that to successfully capture any signal the sampling rate has to be double of the highest frequency. 96k sampling is nice for your dog. 48kHz is more than adequate especially considering that most people can't hear much above 15kHz or even a few kHz lower.

While I won't pretend to understand Nyquist's law, why is the debate about which sampling rate to use always focused on the highest frequency that can be generated? Can there not be an improvement on the sound that can be heard by increasing the sampling rate ragardless of the highest freq possible?

For example, if my hearing was totally gone above 10K, does it apply that using a sampling rate above 20K (or 22.2k) is useless?

I don't think so, I am guessing the freq between 20hz and 10K hz are better reproduced using 44.1k, 48k or 96k then if it were done at 20K. For that reason, even if a filter was applied to block everything above 20K, I believe 96K would reproduce the range we still hear in better then 48k. At what point the difference gets too small to tell, I am not sure. But I do know that Dave Matthew's sounds great at 96K and Neil Young's recordings at 192K never sounded better.

[dobyblue]

Hi Penton,
My favourite live band, Dave Matthews Band, recently announced the December 22nd, 2009 release of “Europe 2009” on 1 DVD and 3 CD set, comprising a full concert from Italy spanned over the 3 CD’s and the 2nd night at Brixton Academy on the DVD. Here is a brief description:

Across the Pond - DVD

Dave Matthews Band: Across the Pond" is a concert film shot in the famed Brixton Academy in South London. Directed by Sam Erickson (The Road to Big Whiskey Documentary/44 Pictures) and filmed with 10 HD cameras in the vintage awe-inspiring theatre, this concert program takes you up close and personal with DMB in a setting reminiscent of the band s earlier years of club and theater touring. Mixed in pristine stereo and 5.1 surround from the original multi track recordings and presented via Dolby Digital stereo audio this film is the definitive visual record of the 2009 world tour behind Big Whiskey and the GrooGrux King.

According to Red Light Management this is the ONLY version available, you can’t buy the CD’s or the DVD separately and there will be no Blu-ray release. You’ll note that this release is highly touted as having been filmed with 10 HD cameras and the 5.1 Dolby surround mix is from the original multi-track recordings (no surprise, all DMB shows have been archived in multi-track since April 30th, 1996), is this some giant middle finger to all the people that know better? What’s the point in touting the HD cameras if all we’re getting is archaic MPEG-2 encoded paltry 480i? Not to mention this is to hype the 2010 European tour in February yet it’s not even available in the UK or Europe, it’s NTSC only!!

Is there someone’s ear at SonyBMG you can have a whisper into? Something, anything at all? The 2009 tour was so great and the band was in such good form and it’s just heartbreaking to know there is no Blu-ray release, no high resolution surround! D’oh!!!!! If there’s nothing you think you can do, is there any advice you can impart as to how the fan community best serve their own interests in trying to ensure a future Blu-ray release?

Thank you.
\m/ \m/

[Tok]

Originally Posted by jdc115

For example, if my hearing was totally gone above 10K, does it apply that using a sampling rate above 20K (or 22.2k) is useless?

I don't think so, I am guessing the freq between 20hz and 10K hz are better reproduced using 44.1k, 48k or 96k then if it were done at 20K.

Ever hear the phrase "use a sledgehammer"..... its overkill.

[abintra]

Any chance Sony will market the Sony Pictures Classics as a line in order to further highlight and promote their collection of films?

Their whole catalog is filled with so many quality films that would appeal to the same audience that it seems like a natural fit to create a collection that would encourage those interested to seek out additional titles.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

Hi Penton,
My favourite live band, Dave Matthews Band......
Is there someone’s ear at SonyBMG you can have a whisper into?
Something, anything at all?
....it’s just heartbreaking to know there is no Blu-ray release.....
Thank you.
\m/ \m/

lol Doby, perhaps you remember a cryptic post I made back in mid-March of 2007, namely -

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

If you enjoy music and you’re a Blu-ray fan, a Springsteen fan, and are an admirer of the Emerald Isle, you may want to keep an eye out this summer ....if all goes according to schedule.

^ which I posted a couple weeks before the ‘official’ announcement from Springsteen's official website (brucespringsteen.net) i.e. “Bruce Springsteen With The Sessions Band Live In Dublin To Be Released On June 5”.

Well, first of all Sony/BMG is now called Sony Music Entertainment…..or Sony Music for short- http://press.sonymusic.com/ as Sony Corp. bought out BMG last year.
Secondly, they’re kinda like a separate division from Sony Pictures so, we travel on different tracks (pun) but, the next time I’m scheduled to meet with someone over there in music entertainment land, I’ll be sure to plant the DMB seed for you and/or see whaz up.