"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Penton-Man]

Yeah, I’ve been privately told that Jim actually also used a dual DLP projector set-up (actually 4 of them, double stacked) for the demonstration.

Granted, that may or may not have been necessary for the 48 fps/eye portion of the presentation and he could have been using that extra projector(s) to give the audience a super bright 3D picture (to add to the show) but, the fact of the matter remains that the demo itself was no where nearly achieved by using a “minor software upgrade”.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Ok- time for me to join the chorus. I spun up my Taxi Driver disc last night and couldn't be more pleased. What a fantastic feeling to see some of my favorite cinematography of all time so lovingly treated and beautifully presented! Thanks to all responsible for this stunning release.

Doc, regarding this heads-up from back in Feb…. https://forum.blu-ray.com/blu-ray-mo...ml#post4428542
Seems it has now been listed, scroll down to the JUNE ’11 HIGHLIGHTS (i.e. Michael Chapman)… along with a crispier fellow also being interviewed about the restoration –

http://www.theasc.com/ac_magazine/April2011/current.php

[sharkshark]

ah, the days when they'd blow stuff up to create underwater lighting:

http://photography.nationalgeographi...r-photography/

[Penton-Man]

^ Cool. Perhaps not an early ‘pioneer’ but I think this guy is currently the best underwater still photographer around - http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/20...et-photography

[Penton-Man]

Blu-Ray Watcher, if you still haven’t been called yet by today, I would not plan on being selected but I wouldn’t feel too badly about it because the majority of the non-SAG male roles were for actors portraying individuals 30ish and older….I assume you’re younger.

[horseflesh]

Something you forgot to tell us??
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-G...ne-Blu-ray/30/
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Monty...Blu-ray/23375/

[Blu-Ray Watcher]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Blu-Ray Watcher, if you still haven’t been called yet by today, I would not plan on being selected but I wouldn’t feel too badly about it because the majority of the non-SAG male roles were for actors portraying individuals 30ish and older….I assume you’re younger.

Heh, I know. There will be other opportunities.

[Bobby Henderson]

I think the talk of having movie theaters upgrade to 48fps 2D and 48fps 3D is pretty amusing in light of certain movie studios wanting to push "premium VOD" via DirecTV, Comcast and other outlets. This is in addition to certain "theater industry consultants" recommending studios charge theaters 10% more on movie rental fees as well as demanding a cut of concessions revenue.

Do the studio chiefs not remember several of the largest theater chains in the United States were crawling out of bankruptcy during the past decade?

Rumor has it the major studios will stop ordering 35mm film prints for movie releases by the end of 2012 or sometime in 2013. That timeline may not apply to all the international markets, but some are saying it will apply to theaters in the United States. Currently there is a financing program in place for theaters to convert to digital projection, but that program is set to expire by year's end. Then theaters will have to foot the entire bill on new digital projection gear, which is far more expensive than film projectors. One of the fears is hundreds of small town theaters and various independent theaters could be put out of business for lack of film prints and lack of ability to afford the financing plan. A lot of theater operators are pretty concerned about being able to stay in business.

Some people are saying this new premium VOD plan won't be so bad since it has a 60 day window. It might not be so bad for first run theaters that play only mainstream Hollywood studio product. Not all movie releases go "wide" when they debut. Some are "platformed" from a small number of screens to more and more over a series of weeks or even months. Premium VOD could destroy that model. Bargain/2nd run theaters and even theaters in international markets could be hurt.

The big problem I have with premium VOD is that 60 day window and $30 price is NOT carved in stone. The "window" between theatrical release and home video release has shortened radically over the last 20 years. And someone is always talking about eliminating the window entirely, like Mark Cuban for instance.

Getting to the point: if the movie theaters go out of business much of the movie business will go down with it.

Movie theaters are the showcase and primary marketing vehicle for embedding mainstream movies into the minds of customers. If the movie business changes to where all content is made for TV we will see the scale and variety of content radically diminish. Movie studios won't make up for all the revenue lost from the theatrical side of the business. And without the marketing push from that end it will be harder to sell new movies on home video. How am I going to know the difference between a quality movie and a straight to video turd release? Premium cable and broadcast networks will become the outlets for the best stuff.

The movie studios really need to get themselves more interested with improving the theatrical movie-going experience and keeping those theaters in business. They're taking a suicide pill if they think they can "grow revenue" by cutting the theaters out of the picture.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

I think the talk of having movie theaters upgrade to 48fps 2D and 48fps 3D is pretty amusing in light of certain movie studios wanting to push "premium VOD" via DirecTV, Comcast and other outlets...

Hollywood studios aren’t the ones talking about encouraging movie theaters upgrade to 48fps 2D and 48fps 3D (primarily two well-known Directors in the *News* are). And I gol-dang guarantee you that the home video divisions aren’t talking about that particular higher frame rate (at least not favorably)…..60fps being an altogether different animal though since Blu-ray currently supports 720/60p and at least for 3D, the lower spatial resolution of 720 is a marginal PQ downside in comparison to the gain in temporal resolution obtained by that higher frame rate for 3D as viewed with most small-sized consumer flat panels at home.

Now, that’s not to say that Blu-ray spec is ‘carved in stone’ as I find 1080/60p *interesting* and Blu-ray can be updated to support new features. The important question is whether or not it serves Blu-ray at large or just a few member companies.

As to the theatrical matter, knowing that you are not only a home theater enthusiast but also a fan of the BIG Screen and most likely don’t take kindly to anything you perceive as a threat to that delivery system, I sympathize with your concern but, premium VOD is a calculated plan which has already received careful consideration by the rights holders, especially in view of the continued pattern of dwindling revenue from packaged home media. Businesses should be cognizant of the fact that things change, in this case, media distribution. On a grandeur scale, also that of peoples’ interests and priorites…http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011...tv-mobiles-net

Successful businesses must be versatile enough to adapt to changes in the business environment or, at the very least, amenable to testing solutions to changes in consumers’ viewing choices and interests. People can speculate all they wish as to whether action A will lead to action B and to what degree and what serves *the greater good* of the film industry and cinephiles but, one doesn’t really know or can’t be certain until you try something out by actually doing it. I know of no person who has a 100% or near perfect prediction rate when it comes to business consequences/repercussions involving the film industry and if there were such a fellow, I can guarantee you that reps from every studio in town would be beating on his door to offer him/her at least a Senior Vice Presidential level position for his business acumen.

I think that the *value proposition* of this plan is based upon one’s perspective as to what’s best for them and their own personal desires/agenda rather than any noble idea of *the greater good* which leads me to the ‘Open Letter’ signed by some creative talent which is covered in the News section on this forum. I’m just wondering where all these letter writers were when it came to the really BIG Picture (peoples’ health) and doing the most *good* for their fans, i.e. the theater-goers themselves when it came to enlightening them about the hazards of Cinema popcorn - even if one is not into health, folks should view the video clip just to learn the profit margin involved) -
http://video.theweek.com/video/How-b...6Y3TPY6X&t=How bad for you is theater popcorn?

And, last time I checked the clip ^, it only covered total calories and didn’t even delve into the just as significant (or more) factor of saturated fat and salt content…. http://articles.lacanadaonline.com/2...d-amc-calories which are major contributors to coronary heart disease and hypertension.

Ah priorities…priorities, as when to write letters (and when not to) and when to support worthy endeavors (and when not to).

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by horseflesh

Something you forgot to tell us??
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-G...ne-Blu-ray/30/
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Monty...Blu-ray/23375/

Top of the morning horseflesh! Hey, we’ve got to do a pub crawl together before I get too old for that sort of thing. You may have missed it, because I already covered the Blu-ray status of ‘Guns’, along with a few other titles about three weeks ago, back here –
https://forum.blu-ray.com/insider-di...ml#post4577893

As for Monty Python’s Holy Grail, it was a challenging project because, like with some other Monty Python early stuff, it required intense work during the dust removal portion of the project, but unlike that with The Meaning of Life, for which those Uni folks had a comparatively easier time of it in producing the DVD version of that particular motion picture, unfortunately, we ran out of quarters while at the local Laundromat which delayed things somewhat before the material was finally handed off to the artist in charge to be “first delicately stroked into submission, then driving it firmly into place”…

YouTube - Monty Python's The Meaning of Life - Film Restoration

Anyway, bottom line, the June 28th Blu-ray release date for this title which I’ve been alerted to as listed on certain websites (http://releaselists.com/BLURAYNorthAmerica.html) is absolutely not correct and at the present moment it is uncertain as to when this title will debut on Blu-ray.

[MerrickG]

I check in here every so often to see whats going on and it always WAYY over my head technical talk going on.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by merrick97

I check in here every so often to see whats going on and it always WAYY over my head technical talk going on.

View the YouTube clip I just posted above.
Film Restoration 101.

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

View the YouTube clip I just posted above.
Film Restoration 101.

That video is freaking hilarious!

[MerrickG]

Penton,

how often is actor make up mistaken for DNR?!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by merrick97

Penton,
how often is actor make up mistaken for DNR?!

You mean by members as posting on audio/video forums? Honestly, I have no idea as I haven’t followed that sort of thing for quite awhile. It hasn’t been an *issue* at SPHE, at least not after CRTs were swapped out for flat panels and front projection to QC HD masters several years ago. I would think that by now it wouldn’t be much an issue with other studios or content providers, no?

One quick and sometimes reliable way to differentiate is to examine the hair or the actor’s clothing and compare their texture to that of the person’s face. If everything in the image is somewhat soft, it indicates something else is going on….meaning something other than make-up and it may be secondary to extreme DNR but, on the other hand, it may not be (i.e. Baraka).

Granted, there are several clear-cut, well known past Blu-ray examples of extreme digital noise reduction application which bloggers have done their best to beat into the ground incessantly; however, without some adequate background knowledge of the film source, the production, digital tools other than DNR, like for instance excessive automated DRS or the defocus power window utilized during the DI process on the faces of some well-known talent so as not to show their ‘age’…the topic can become quite complex. I must say though that back when I did follow online audience responses to reputed ‘DNR’ed Blu-ray titles, some of it was quite entertaining to read, if one had the time, as the range of opinions....even educated, could be rather broad...

Typical mainstream audio/video forum member (heavy DNR applied “frequently enough to be distracting at times”) – http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...4&postcount=41

From someone with more experience with *the film look* (aint seeing no DNR…”I’m seeing diffusion”) –https://forum.blu-ray.com/2529415-post523.html

From someone having more hands-on experience with digital tools than both of thee above members (Yup, there’s DNR but it’s “subdued”)–https://forum.blu-ray.com/2541231-post536.html

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by merrick97

Penton,
how often is actor make up mistaken for DNR?!

Now, if you’re referring to a hospital or healthcare setting, I certainly hope that the presence of make-up is not ever unwittingly mistaken for a legitimate DNR order…..

as that acronym stands for Do Not Resuscitate!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by 4K2K

edit - It looks like the Hobbit is going to be the first 48 fps (47.96) 3D film a couple of years before the first Avatar sequel

Apparently P.J. has recently posted on his twitter or facebook page? an important piece of the post production information that didn’t make the initial press reports….namely, that they would also be providing 24fps version deliverables to distributors.

I know that when shooting at 48fps…later, in post production, you just can’t drop every other frame for 24fps as there will be issues in that it won’t play smoothly (the exposure time is just too short)....at least when shooting at the traditional 180 degree shutter which I think most people in the business assumed would be done but, it seems that P.J.’s crew is shooting at 48fps with a 270 degree shutter angle. This is a different proposition and it will be interesting to see how well 48fps at 270 converts to 24 fps because in theory what’s happening is that the principal photography (by compromising a super-sharp look and giving more of a smeary look at 270 than a standard 180degree shutter setting) may ultimately aid in the post production process so as to enable acceptable success in all format presentations.

What’s rather daunting about this project is just thinking about the data handling requirements for this motion picture. For instance, they’re shooting in 4K (apparently) at 48 fps, so doing the math, that turns out to be > 200MB per frame of data. Imagine the total data load on the facility for all the shot 'footage'.

But anyway, if this plays somewhat successfully in multiple formats, and in the future, as post production pipelines become more robust and storage becomes cheaper what may end up being the *Holy Grail*, at least for 3D, is shooting at even higher frame rates than what P.J. is doing or what Jim Cameron is considering, namely shooting 96 fps at a 360 shutter for then, you could blend two consecutive frames for a 24p/180 degree 2D release and, for 3D, pick 3 frames out…which would be like a 270 degree shutter.

Or, perhaps better yet, shoot 120 fps, blend 3 frames and drop 2 in order to achieve 24fps masters and drop every other frame for 60 fps Digital Cinema masters.

Merrick, I hope I didn’t give you a headache with the above as I might have gotten a bit carried away.
If so, one moment, I’ll post a link forwarded to me by a Barca fan ….

[Penton-Man]

^
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...-cup-under-bus

But, “Don't worry, it is fine."

http://www.forzafutbol.com/2011/04/l...you-think.html
PeterTHX, as a fellow soccer aficionado, I think you’ll also appreciate.

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Apparently P.J. has recently posted on his twitter or facebook page? an important piece of the post production information that didn’t make the initial press reports….namely, that they would also be providing 24fps version deliverables to distributors.

I know that when shooting at 48fps…later, in post production, you just can’t drop every other frame for 24fps as there will be issues in that it won’t play smoothly (the exposure time is just too short)....at least when shooting at the traditional 180 degree shutter which I think most people in the business assumed would be done but, it seems that P.J.’s crew is shooting at 48fps with a 270 degree shutter angle. This is a different proposition and it will be interesting to see how well 48fps at 270 converts to 24 fps because in theory what’s happening is that the principal photography (by compromising a super-sharp look and giving more of a smeary look at 270 than a standard 180degree shutter setting) may ultimately aid in the post production process so as to enable acceptable success in all format presentations.

What’s rather daunting about this project is just thinking about the data handling requirements for this motion picture. For instance, they’re shooting in 4K (apparently) at 48 fps, so doing the math, that turns out to be > 200MB per frame of data. Imagine the total data load on the facility for all the shot 'footage'.

But anyway, if this plays somewhat successfully in multiple formats, and in the future, as post production pipelines become more robust and storage becomes cheaper what may end up being the *Holy Grail*, at least for 3D, is shooting at even higher frame rates than what P.J. is doing or what Jim Cameron is considering, namely shooting 96 fps at a 360 shutter for then, you could blend two consecutive frames for a 24p/180 degree 2D release and, for 3D, pick 3 frames out…which would be like a 270 degree shutter.

Or, perhaps better yet, shoot 120 fps, blend 3 frames and drop 2 in order to achieve 24fps masters and drop every other frame for 60 fps Digital Cinema masters.

Merrick, I hope I didn’t give you a headache with the above as I might have gotten a bit carried away.
If so, one moment, I’ll post a link forwarded to me by a Barca fan ….

very, very interesting, was puzzled how all this would work out, and amused that once again we're talking "3-2" like some weird pulldown dejavu.

[4K2K]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I know that when shooting at 48fps…later, in post production, you just can’t drop every other frame for 24fps as there will be issues in that it won’t play smoothly (the exposure time is just too short)....at least when shooting at the traditional 180 degree shutter which I think most people in the business assumed would be done but, it seems that P.J.’s crew is shooting at 48fps with a 270 degree shutter angle. This is a different proposition and it will be interesting to see how well 48fps at 270 converts to 24 fps because in theory what’s happening is that the principal photography (by compromising a super-sharp look and giving more of a smeary look at 270 than a standard 180degree shutter setting) may ultimately aid in the post production process so as to enable acceptable success in all format presentations.

Before I read about the 270 degree shutter, I thought he would have been using a 360 degree shutter to make it easier. I wonder if they will use some image processing (using info from each frame instead of just skipping every other frame) to try to give a 180 degree shutter look to the 24 fps version? Though I suppose just skipping every other frame and using a 270 degree shutter will make it easier for people to see the motion artefacts with 24 fps and so see the 48 fps version as superior.

But anyway, if this plays somewhat successfully in multiple formats, and in the future, as post production pipelines become more robust and storage becomes cheaper what may end up being the *Holy Grail*, at least for 3D, is shooting at even higher frame rates than what P.J. is doing or what Jim Cameron is considering, namely shooting 96 fps at a 360 shutter for then, you could blend two consecutive frames for a 24p/180 degree 2D release and, for 3D, pick 3 frames out…which would be like a 270 degree shutter.

Or, perhaps better yet, shoot 120 fps, blend 3 frames and drop 2 in order to achieve 24fps masters and drop every other frame for 60 fps Digital Cinema masters.

I think the 120 fps and then dropping/blending frames is what Douglas Trumbull is talking about with Showscan Digital? who's also going to be doing a high fps film.