"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Steedeel]

Doc, forgot to congratulate you on the derby win last week. We face our own derby on sunday with Newcastle. Should be spicy!

[cipher]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

How 'bout you, Penton? Have a current opinion on Le Boss you'd be willing to make quasi-public?

I'll jump in here before Penton does...

As an outside fan I've been very impressed with what Arsene has done over the years. He basically allowed Arsenal to build a new stadium and somehow fielded entertaining/competitive squads at the same time. Even though there hasn't been a trophy in 7 years there is no way I would be looking elsewhere if I was part of the board. The only changes I'd make would be to loosen the purse strings a bit and work on bringing in some older players to support the youthful majority. For my money, he is one of the top 3 coaches in the world.

On a related topic, I hope tomorrow's game is as exciting as the 4-4 draw our respective teams played a couple years ago!

[Steedeel]

The problem with not spending money when most of the others are is that Arsenal may be playing catch up for several years to come. Plus, not replacing Fabregas and Nasri is obviously a major problem.

As for Liverpool, they are simply also-rans these days. Without champions league football it is hard for the big clubs. It could be argued there is simply too much money involved now.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

You can absolutely say that it's impossible that tens of millions are buying very expensive stuff (and rating their satisfaction with it off the charts) just because it is cool, even though none of them actually like it, which is what was actually being said.

but people do do that all the time, I brought forth the clothing industry as an example earlier since it is the easiest because fashion changes every few months. But since there was discussion of Cabbage patch kids early on between you and Peter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabbage_Patch_Kids

generating over $2 billion in retail sales for 1984, alone

I have no idea what the retail price of those dolls where but my guess is that 2B must be in the tens of millions of dolls sold. And I hope you agree that these people had to buy it because it was the in toy and not just because it was the absolute best doll ever and there was no other doll that could compare to it in 84.


Thyere are lots of stuff that sell in the hundreds of millions just because they are "cool".

Now I don't know or care if Apple is doing well because they have good stuff or because they have cool stuff but you can't just dismiss it because tens of millions of people would not buy something because it is cool. there are plenty of products where that happens.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

There's no "fanboyism" involved. Tens of milllions is effectively everyone because it's ludicrous to imagine that tens of millions of people are buying these products repeatedly without actually liking them. It doesn't matter if it's every single individual or just 90% of them- there may be a few crazy edge-cases out there, but you don't have success like Apple's with the majority of your customers not actually liking the product. Use your common sense.

it does when the point was that "I did not buy it because it was cool" I=-1 so if it is 90% and something has sold 100-200M as you said that leaves 10-20M people that can say "I did not buy it for that reason" and it could still be true that 90% bought it for that reason. But if it is 100% then there cannot be anyone that did not buy just because it was the popular thing to do.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by rickah88

I was saying "everyone" as in the saying: "everyone is doing it"....my God man, you are way too literal and you miss context 100% of the time.
This is a mirror image of the UV thread.
If someone says "the sky is blue" do you immediately jump in the conversation and start discussing all the shades of blue...and God forbid shades of gray that the sky could actually be.
For one that claims the pursuit of logic, you really don't display a lot of it at times!

no I just don't like BS. Let me ask you a simple question, from all your family and friends, how many collect films? And no a few DVDs of bad kid shows does not count as a collection.

Look here there are https://www.blu-ray.com/community/?a...tions&page=704 28,185 member that have entered their collection, while number 1 has over 3k by page 33 https://www.blu-ray.com/community/?a...ctions&page=32 you are already at under 500. And you would expect a site light this to be higher than average on the buyer side.

I can't believe you feel like arguing that most people buy films instead of renting them.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

it does when the point was that "I did not buy it because it was cool" I=-1 so if it is 90% and something has sold 100-200M as you said that leaves 10-20M people that can say "I did not buy it for that reason" and it could still be true that 90% bought it for that reason. But if it is 100% then there cannot be anyone that did not buy just because it was the popular thing to do.

Anthony, Peter's argument was that the iPhone and iPad markets are, in a general sense, composed of people who do not actually like the products. It doesn't matter if he meant all 200 million of them or only 190 million of them (or, to turn it around, even a large minority like, say, 10 million of them)- it's an utterly absurd notion, any way you slice it. These are $500-$2,500 items that are closely integrated with your day-to-day social and business functioning, not $20 Cabbage Patch Kids the little ones are begging you for. Again, use your common sense.

Here's another question for you to ponder. If no one actually likes or enjoys using their iDevices, why does the ratio of purchased apps to purchased iDevices completely destroy the same measure for non-Apple mobile products? If all these people hate using their iDevices, why do they keep spending all their time (and money) doing it? This is measurable actual usage we're talking about, not just pulling your phone out of your pocket so the car next to yours can check you out.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Anthony, Peter's argument was that the iPhone and iPad markets are, in a general sense, composed of people who do not actually like the products.

I don't know if don'yt like the product is necesserily true but I agree that was the general sentiment

It doesn't matter if he meant all 200 million of them or only 190 million of them (or, to turn it around, even a large minority like, say, 10 million of them)- it's an utterly absurd notion, any way you slice it.

it does matter when you quote a response from me to Alan where he said that he hates when people assume the reason he bought something is that it was popular or cool and my response was that I did not see Peter say everyone and your response is that I should look back at what he wrote

These are $500-$2,500 items that are closely integrated with your day-to-day social and business functioning, not $20 Cabbage Patch Kids the little ones are begging you for. Again, use your common sense.

price does not matter, yes I think they where around 20$, but if you have ever known a woman in your life there is a good chance she bought something expensive (over 500$) so that the next year she can't wear it just because it is out of style. Have you never seen someone buy a designer jean for several hundred dollars just for the label on it? Now don't get me wrong, the only reason I mentioned woman is that men's styles tend to last a lot longer and change much less with time so it would be harder to make the point and easier for a guy to have clothing he outgrew or it started looking to raggy.

Here's another question for you to ponder. If no one actually likes or enjoys using their iDevices, why does the ratio of purchased apps to purchased iDevices completely destroy the same measure for non-Apple mobile products? If all these people hate using their iDevices, why do they keep spending all their time (and money) doing it? This is measurable actual usage we're talking about, not just pulling your phone out of your pocket so the car next to yours can check you out.

I never said people don't like them, and from my first reply on the subject I said I don't agree with Peter. I also own Apple products and a few years back when my dad's PDA broke I got him an ipod touch. Maybe you should have asked this to Peter instead of saying that he can't be right because 10's of millions would not buy something just because it is cool.

On the other hand since you did ask me

[Show spoiler] I don't think it is effective, an easy counter argument could be that once the money is wasted might as well use it. I think it is impossible to know what % and to what extent people buy something just because it is popular if it is popular so it is a useless discussion.

[Constitution 101]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

I don't know if don'yt like the product is necesserily true but I agree that was the general sentiment



it does matter when you quote a response from me to Alan where he said that he hates when people assume the reason he bought something is that it was popular or cool and my response was that I did not see Peter say everyone and your response is that I should look back at what he wrote


price does not matter, yes I think they where around 20$, but if you have ever known a woman in your life there is a good chance she bought something expensive (over 500$) so that the next year she can't wear it just because it is out of style. Have you never seen someone buy a designer jean for several hundred dollars just for the label on it? Now don't get me wrong, the only reason I mentioned woman is that men's styles tend to last a lot longer and change much less with time so it would be harder to make the point and easier for a guy to have clothing he outgrew or it started looking to raggy.




I never said people don't like them, and from my first reply on the subject I said I don't agree with Peter. I also own Apple products and a few years back when my dad's PDA broke I got him an ipod touch. Maybe you should have asked this to Peter instead of saying that he can't be right because 10's of millions would not buy something just because it is cool.

On the other hand since you did ask me

[Show spoiler] I don't think it is effective, an easy counter argument could be that once the money is wasted might as well use it. I think it is impossible to know what % and to what extent people buy something just because it is popular if it is popular so it is a useless discussion.

How did it position itself as popular in the 1st place? Like I said b4, there can be SOME measure of success for SOME measure of time for a SOME products. Fads eventually pass(hula-hoop, pet rock, women's fashion, etc). Apple has had a large measure of success and enormous popularity w/ many products over long period. I don't believe you could logically or rationally ascribe that to just being a fad or what have you. Also, whether or not people buy something "because it's cool" is completely irrelevant. All companies aspire to be that "cool". So why can't they just simply be more "cool" and have the same success as Apple. BECAUSE THEY CAN'T/DON'T KNOW HOW, THAT'S WHY. The premise of fads, cool, etc. is false because it doesn't answer the question as to why Apple is where they're at, and all the other competitors can't get their product be as big a fad, cool, popular, etc.

[rickah88]

Penton,

What do you think will happen first with your thread:

1) 20k posts
2) 2mil views
3) all of the above(simultaneously)
4) none of the above ( yeah right)

Edit: If Doc & Steed keep chatting soccer, I'm going with #1. If Rick & Steed keep chatting blu-ray doomsday scenarios, I'm going with #2. If Anthony keeps up the debate I'm going with #3, as he'll just copy/paste his way to the 20,000th post which would also be the 2 millionth view.
Option #4 was created with 2012 in mind...just in case, there should always be on "out clause".

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

I don't know if don'yt like the product is necesserily true but I agree that was the general sentiment

As I said, go back and read- he said it twice.

Originally Posted by Anthony P

it does matter when you quote a response from me to Alan where he said that he hates when people assume the reason he bought something is that it was popular or cool and my response was that I did not see Peter say everyone and your response is that I should look back at what he wrote

So, when you refute what I say without knowing what I'm responding to, it doesn't matter that you're wrong because you didn't see the original statement?

Originally Posted by Anthony P

price does not matter

When you're talking about 200 million devices and the premise is that nobody actually likes them, but they line up to buy them, rate them highly and spend their days using them anyway, price absolutely matters. That would be an absurd premise for a $20 product. It's triple-dog-absurd* for a $500 - $2,500 product.

Originally Posted by Anthony P

I never said people don't like them, and from my first reply on the subject I said I don't agree with Peter.

Peter said people don't like them. I said he was wrong and then you said I was wrong, so you did say it and you did agree with Peter, whether or not you were aware of it as you were doing it.





* see what I did there, Rick?

[Steedeel]

Doc, another win for you guys. Van persie's goal was superb. Do you believe keeping hold of him solely depends on a champions league place now?
I would not bet against him notching 40 goals this season. Awesome player, but i wonder where Arsenal would be without him. Take the lasr match for example. Arsenal, maybe deserved a draw at best, but with him in the team always chance of nicking a goal.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

As I said, go back and read- he said it twice.





So, when you refute what I say without knowing what I'm responding to, it doesn't matter that you're wrong because you didn't see the original statement?

It's triple-dog-absurd* for a $500 - $2,500 product.


* see what I did there, Rick?

I did! I say what's wrong with some A Christmas Story in March! Never too early...or late depending on your point of view(or geopraphical location).

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by rickah88

Never did I argue buying vs. renting home media. Again you missed the context of point and have taken it way out as a result.
As in the UV thread, you can keep bringing this up and I'll keep refuting it. Learn to read the entire string of posts before commenting, you'll be much more thankful when you make less foolish future posts.

did you not say

Originally Posted by rickah88

So prior to blu-ray you never collected dvd? Everyone was doing that[/b]. If you did, by your logic that would make you a "blind follower". Just sayin'
If not, wow you're such a Maverick! (Edit: you & Peter both)

Doesn't collecting by definition imply buying and keeping stuff (be it DVDs BDs or something else) as opposed to renting? The vast majority of people are not collecting BDs (like the stats on this site shows) and the vast majority of people never collected DVDs because they where happy renting (and there is nothing wrong with that). So how can you say everyone was collecting DVDs and if he did the same he was a blind follower?

as for the entire string of posts who cares, if he said "he is the queen of Sheba, it is immaterial. The question is does everyone collect movies and the answer is easy, it is not even close and that started with your post.

[Doctorossi]

Steedeel, I'm counting no chickens with Van Persie. "Where would Arsenal be without (player x)?" has become a familiar refrain over the last few seasons. Vieira, Henry and Fabregas each put the same end on the story and it's a bit tough to imagine Van Persie will be too different.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

So, when you refute what I say without knowing what I'm responding to, it doesn't matter that you're wrong because you didn't see the original statement?

I do know what the other person said, but what interpretation happens in your mind, that I can't know but just get a glimpse at from your posts. Also sometimes the previous post is more important than at other times. In tyhe case with Alan there is a BIG difference between 100% and even 99.999999% in the case where you say that people don't buy expensive things just because they are popular and not for any reason other than popularity, it does not realy matter.

When you're talking about 200 million devices and the premise is that nobody actually likes them, but they line up to buy them, rate them highly and spend their days using them anyway, price absolutely matters. That would be an absurd premise for a $20 product. It's triple-dog-absurd* for a $500 - $2,500 product.

absurd maybe but a reality and obvious, unfortunetly it is true. You agreed earlier the CPK was a fad so how is it absurd to say that the only reason that the CPK sold 10's of millions (around 100M) in '84 alone was because it had a cool factor? How about the fashion industry as a whole many products are in the 500-2500 range and sell in the 10's of millions and anything fashion has to do with popularity and not founctionality, let's face it, find a suite that would have been cool/popular and would not make you look dorky in the 70's and anyone will say how ugly and tacky it is today.

Peter said people don't like them. I said he was wrong and then you said I was wrong, so you did say it and you did agree with Peter, whether or not you were aware of it as you were doing it.

no I disagreed with you saying 10's of million of people don't buy expensive (or even cheap stuff) feal happy about their purchases (at least for the time being) just because it is popular. Since that happens every day and in reality has probably has influenced everyone. From the original post I said I don't agree with Peter. So why do you think you need to pretend I do? The difference is that there is no evidence either way to know what % of people with iphones, ipods and ipads got them just because it is the in thing and so I cannot show how Peter is wrong, but it is easy to show how 10’s of millions do buy stuff because of the cool factor and so it is definitely wrong to assume that people don’t do that.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

What'd you do that for, P-Man?

Abe is analogous to the ownership of Blu-ray.com

Rumor has it that when this humble thread reaches the 2 million viewer mark, that’s when they give me my percentage of the gross, as it kicks in contractually at that figure. I had my doubts but at the rate you guys have been posting and reading the Club, this may occur before I go senile and can actually enjoy the rewards.

P.S.
Plus, I was about to start a trek on up to San Francisco

We Built This City - YouTube

just before I made that ^ entry.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

...it involves 4k, 3D or bluray releases and new technology.

There is tech news regarding new technology …
http://news.discovery.com/tech/augme...es-120203.html

And there is tech news…more on PeterTHX’s fruit of choice and the 1st degree murder of a laptop -
http://bcove.me/xgrc3upy

Stee, I’ll see if any of my buddies from Rancho Bernardo (Sony Electronics) spoke at the annual US FPD Conference down San Diego ways last week and ask if there is a link or pdf for folks here to read.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Who can?
I'll trade you that plate and the car it's on for a copy of the Blu-ray.

For the time being, this (in public domain) will just have to suffice …

Popeye The Sailor 002 (c) - Popeye The Sailor Meets Ali Baba's Forty Thieves mp4 - YouTube

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

So it very much seems.

How 'bout you, Penton? Have a current opinion on Le Boss you'd be willing to make quasi-public?

Well, I’m very happy after this weekend but not nearly feeling reassured of prolonged satisfaction or security, even if only to the end of this season.

My feeling is (and I am by no means an expert in professional soccer, as I am only basing this judgment upon my experience as having played the game in high school and college and watching it as a fan)…but, be that as it may, the quality of the player personnel is lacking for a consistent winning performance. That’s not to say that the lads don’t give it their best and play with heart. There are no slackers.

Now, as to the root cause of our difficulties and whether the insight, willingness and power to really improve *play-on-the-field* to what we’ve been accustomed to in the past, lies with the Board, at the Executive level or the managerial level, or a combination thereof, honestly, I just don’t know but I think more changes are needed. I believe that we can’t continue to simply ride out this blatantly inconsistent spell by continually hoping that things will eventually turn or get better in order to win some trophy, any trophy, because they won’t…..not without changes in the player personnel. And to win the Prem again, well, significant changes/additions to the current status quo are in order, both on offense (to fully exploit the Van Persie asset) and obviously, on defense. We have a good core of players, we just have to fill in some gaps.

That means opening up the purse strings, WIDE, as well as letting go of some players who might otherwise be better suited to advance their careers on other teams. But alas, just like motion pictures, professional sports is a business and I don’t have access to Arsenal’s books nor the minds of the power brokers.

My past concern with the managerial philosophy of Arsene is that I don’t know if he tends to implement a system which is dictated by his players’ talents and abilities or, if, on the other hand, he tries to mold the players’ into his idea of an inflexible ‘winning system’ and by that I mean, players constantly trying to always pass the ball into the net. To give him the benefit of the doubt, I think it’s the former but, if it’s the later, i.e. make the players fit the system, I don’t like it as that might work in the long run with players of the caliber of Barcelona or vintage Arsenal squads but, it won’t work with the current Arsenal active roster. I would much prefer more of a run-and-gun, or open style of play, like that which led to the Sagna/Van Persie goal and the Song/Van Persie goal this weekend at Liverpool.