Twilight Time Discussion Thread

[Aclea]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

Where it's coming from though is another more interesting issue, because the underlying assumption and implicit belief is that there couldn't possibly be two enthusiastic fans of TT in this world! Ergo, they must be the same person!

Whenever this kind of accusation crops up - and on another site there's one poster who believes that there's only one person in the entire world who likes On Her Majesty's Secret Service and anyone who says anything remotely positive about it must be sockpuppet for that one person - I always feel a Spartacus moment coming on:

"I'm ROclockCK!"
"No, I'm ROclockCK!"
"I'm ROclockCK!"
"I'm ROclockCK - and so is my wife!"

[Aclea]

Originally Posted by DNinja

I don't understand the constant griping from some people about Twilight Time. It would be great if every film sold well enough to justify a general release, but that's not the case. I'm glad that a company exists that can make a small print run of a film that won't sell well in a general release.

Amen. When it's not your money on the line invested in these titles, it's easy to lay down the law on how it should be done without considering the financial realities of keeping a small boutique label in business, but most of these titles aren't ever going to sell the kind of volume you'd need to make the kind of bargain bin prices some people here expect remotely viable. Image tried doing Columbia back-catalogue titles from decent masters a year or so back at a $15-18 price point, but they clearly didn't sell well enough or fast enough so we haven't seen anything from them since Sleepwalkers, with nothing announced as being in the pipeline. Sure there's Mill Creek, but they're not going to take the kind of trouble sourcing decent master material that Twilight Time do (you can bet that if TT had done Ship of Fools it would have been on a disc of its own with the extras from the Stanley Kramer boxed set DVD).

TT go to a lot of trouble and put a lot of love into titles that in most cases we simply wouldn't see otherwise - some of which, as others have pointed out, have never been released on any home entertainment format before. As someone whose collection goes back to the days of Super 8mm and 16mm (try getting a decent complete feature film with great quality for $30 in those days!), I don't think their standard price point is unreasonable at all. But comparing it to bargain bin pricing for titles distributors printed too many copies of and don't want to go on paying warehousing costs for is both unreasonable and wildly unrealistic. Given the choice between an ongoing label run by people who genuinely love movies regularly releasing classics and the odd quirky title for $30 or buying up cheap cut-out copies of the last batch of archive titles a label does before it goes under, I know which I'd rather have even if it does mean missing the odd title when money's a bit tight.

[Scooter1836]

Originally Posted by DNinja

I don't understand the constant griping from some people about Twilight Time. It would be great if every film sold well enough to justify a general release, but that's not the case. I'm glad that a company exists that can make a small print run of a film that won't sell well in a general release.

Well it is easy to understand once you accept the fact that no matter what people would complain.

TT is taking titles that they believe they can make a profit on by using a "limited relese business model" on titles that have a limited fan base (limited enough that the general distributors don't want to touch them).

Retaining a higher price because of the limted avalability and they only have to sell a few units to get into profitability.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Because like you said we would not have these titles if they were not doing them. And let's face it since they limit the quantities there is a limit to how much profit can come in, so their bids on licensing and distribution are well below that number. Which also means that other companies that would consider such titles did not bid as high.

Just my opinion

[Hypnosifl]

Originally Posted by DNinja

I don't understand the constant griping from some people about Twilight Time. It would be great if every film sold well enough to justify a general release, but that's not the case. I'm glad that a company exists that can make a small print run of a film that won't sell well in a general release.

I'm fine with TT only pressing a smallish number of copies and charging a higher price, but I don't understand why they rigidly adhere to the "only 3000 copies" for every single title, rather than adjusting the number somewhat based on demand. Given how fast Christine sold out, isn't it pretty plausible that even if they had kept the price exactly the same, they could have sold 4000, 5000 copies or maybe even more? (Of course I can't be sure, but it seems like they can't really have any strong reason to be sure this wouldn't work either, since they've never experimented with pressing larger numbers of more popular titles.) Likewise with other more popular titles like Fright Night and Mysterious Island--the huge prices used copies go for on amazon (especially Fright Night) pretty strongly suggest there was a lot more demand for these. It just seems like by sticking to that number regardless of the title, and ignoring the variations in demand, they not only make it so a lot of fans won't be able to get movies they would have wanted on blu ray, but they do it for reasons that can't really even be justified in business terms; it seems like they just stick to the same formula out of "tradition". I guess it's conceivable that the studios wouldn't agree to license the titles if they pressed a higher number of copies, but I doubt every studio they license titles from would require the precise number of 3000.

[PowellPressburger]

TT release the titles they are allowed at a 3,000 limit that is per their contact with the studios. It isn't them not wanting to sell more.

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by PowellPressburger

TT release the titles they are allowed at a 3,000 limit that is per their contact with the studios. It isn't them not wanting to sell more.

Yes, that is the limit per their contract but let's not also forget that is the number that TT came up with.

[PowellPressburger]

People need to take their arguments over it to Twilight Time directly. Maybe I've been a film score buyer for so long I am used to limited runs of anywhere from 500 to 3,000 pressings in a limited run.

People don't realize that SONY didn't want to release the title themselves. With catalog titles lately they feel like they can't move 3,000 of certain classic catalog titles. It is a fact. However making the run limited makes people buy faster etc than if they can just log onto amazon and buying it. Times have changed most studios can't even get stores to stock specific titles. Even Shout Factories upcoming Beetlejuice Complete Animated Series DVD set will be an amazon exclusive. I would almost guess because stores would say no. They are always stating they don't have the space for many titles.

I guess I hate all the bashing because I've known the name Nick Redman since my film score buying days since he has produced so many and being featured on many audio commentaries on DVD/Blu releases. If it weren't for TT saying we will release this title if you aren't than you'd still be waiting. Many complain about the price points, but we know ahead of time when titles are coming so you may have to put a more readily available title on your wish list and buy it later on.... it won't go anywhere. TT releases are limited.

[Hypnosifl]

Originally Posted by PowellPressburger

TT release the titles they are allowed at a 3,000 limit that is per their contact with the studios. It isn't them not wanting to sell more.

OK, fair enough. Like I said it seems strange that every studio would require the same number, but maybe it's some kind of legal issue.

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by PowellPressburger

People need to take their arguments over it to Twilight Time directly. Maybe I've been a film score buyer for so long I am used to limited runs of anywhere from 500 to 3,000 pressings in a limited run.

People don't realize that SONY didn't want to release the title themselves. With catalog titles lately they feel like they can't move 3,000 of certain classic catalog titles. It is a fact. However making the run limited makes people buy faster etc than if they can just log onto amazon and buying it. Times have changed most studios can't even get stores to stock specific titles. Even Shout Factories upcoming Beetlejuice Complete Animated Series DVD set will be an amazon exclusive. I would almost guess because stores would say no. They are always stating they don't have the space for many titles.

I guess I hate all the bashing because I've known the name Nick Redman since my film score buying days since he has produced so many and being featured on many audio commentaries on DVD/Blu releases. If it weren't for TT saying we will release this title if you aren't than you'd still be waiting. Many complain about the price points, but we know ahead of time when titles are coming so you may have to put a more readily available title on your wish list and buy it later on.... it won't go anywhere. TT releases are limited.

I noticed that too. Really wish they would release that on Blu-ray too but I guess it just isn't economically viable.

[Scooter1836]

Originally Posted by PowellPressburger

... Even Shout Factories upcoming Beetlejuice Complete Animated Series DVD set will be an amazon exclusive...

Well there is a major difference between a declared retailer exclusive and "just only one retailer will carry it"

Normally when a retailer has an exclusive, they actually pay for their exclucivity in one form or another.

But if it is a case that just no one else cares to carry it (but could) that is different.

[Blu-Velvet]

Originally Posted by Hypnosifl

OK, fair enough. Like I said it seems strange that every studio would require the same number, but maybe it's some kind of legal issue.

Well, so far, Twilight Time releases films from only two studios -- 20th Century Fox originally, and a while later from Sony/Columbia. I would imagine that Sony decided if it was working for Fox, they'd just use the same figure, but you'd have to talk with the execs and lawyers to be sure.

[PowellPressburger]

The only thing I would change about TT titles is the Font usage on the Spines of the releases. I like when the font that is used for say the cover art is duplicated on the spine. However some may find the spines for TT easy to read. Just a small thing.

I watched Those Magnificent Men... Sunday and the image quality on that release is impressive for a classic Fox title IMO. I'm shocked it isn't sold out. It is a great HD release.

[EddieLarkin]

And a great film too. Much better than Mad Mad Mad Mad World

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by PowellPressburger

The only thing I would change about TT titles is the Font usage on the Spines of the releases. I like when the font that is used for say the cover art is duplicated on the spine. However some may find the spines for TT easy to read. Just a small thing.

I'm one of those who prefers them that way PowellPressburger. Agreed that it's a small thing, but in the absence of spine numbers, which would have been kind of silly considering the eclectic range of appeal for TT titles, the stark black and white spine gives the collection an at-a-glance uniformity. Like others I would imagine, my collection has a "TT corner", and I think they look great in a row together...kind of like a library section from a publisher with an unique house binding style.

Originally Posted by PowellPressburger

I watched Those Magnificent Men... Sunday and the image quality on that release is impressive for a classic Fox title IMO. I'm shocked it isn't sold out. It is a great HD release.

It is PowellPressburger, especially coming from a Todd-AO 70mm source, with such respect shown toward Ronald Searle's classic artwork:



I think I'm among the guilty here predicting a faster than usual run for that title, but over time, I'm still convinced it will be better appreciated. There are new fans discovering TT's work all the time, and the wider/deeper this collection becomes, some of these earlier stellar releases will eventually find renewed life...just another TT "late bloomer", is all.

[PowellPressburger]

I keep my TT titles in their own section also. I do the same with Criterion, WB, etc, etc.

Yeah the illustrated titles for Those Magnificent Men... looks great on Blu

[deepred]

Here's my 2 cents on TT

First of all, it is great that there is a company out there putting neglected films on a high def format and making them available to serious movie buffs. My problem is that they are funding this model via horror movies that are not niche titles but treating them as such. TT has even said they need the movies like Fright Night to keep their business afloat. They know the rabid fanbase of the horror genre - that is apparent on their FB page alone. The window of time for these horror titles to sell out keeps getting smaller and smaller as more horror fans become aware of TT.

Again, I think the idea of TT is cool but when you are grabbing up horror titles not because they fit your niche idea, but because it's a quick paycheck to support the other titles (which the company even has no qualms admitting to) - it's a disservice to the horror fans. They aren't even picking up smaller niche horror movies to begin with. I would say other companies (Olive, Scorpion, SF) are doing a better job of that.

Some argue they would be fools to pass up these huge titles but then again, TT is going against their own business model. On one hand, they are saying they want to get these little seen classic movies out there to the fans but on the other hand, they are keeping genre movies out of the hands of fans by not having the accurate supply for the demand. Is the main goal of the company not contradicted by this?

This time, the horror title sold out in 7 hours. But some will not be happy when it gets down to smaller and smaller windows of time to order and more people are going without their favorite horror titles. If seeing the increasingly quick sells out from Fright Night to NOTLD to Christine are any indication, it is only going to get worse and the model should be revisioned if they are really about getting the "niche" movies out there to the fans.

I do find it funny when fans say that if TT did not come along, no company would have ever had interest in these horror titles. Really? Movies like Puppet Master, Ticks, Town That Dreaded Sundown, Hausu and Death Ship are getting blu releases. I am sure another company would have showed interest. You can say Sony is the one that licenses these and they are to blame. But at the same time, TT should be learning that 3,000 is not an adequate number for the horror titles. I guess it's okay for TT to snag up titles that they know have a greater demand than what fits their current model but that's on their part too, not just Sony's. Is it ethical to snatch up a title and release it like it's some niche movie when you know it's not? Is that the only option they have to stay afloat? These are questions I think they should ask themselves.

I will give TT this: The horror movies they acquire are giving them the funds they need to release movies that probably wouldn't be released. To me, the current model is a double edged sword. Depending on where you stand as a horror fan, I think depends on how much this model bothers/works for you.

[kngtmat]

Originally Posted by PowellPressburger

People need to take their arguments over it to Twilight Time directly. Maybe I've been a film score buyer for so long I am used to limited runs of anywhere from 500 to 3,000 pressings in a limited run.

People don't realize that SONY didn't want to release the title themselves. With catalog titles lately they feel like they can't move 3,000 of certain classic catalog titles. It is a fact. However making the run limited makes people buy faster etc than if they can just log onto amazon and buying it. Times have changed most studios can't even get stores to stock specific titles. Even Shout Factories upcoming Beetlejuice Complete Animated Series DVD set will be an amazon exclusive. I would almost guess because stores would say no. They are always stating they don't have the space for many titles.

I guess I hate all the bashing because I've known the name Nick Redman since my film score buying days since he has produced so many and being featured on many audio commentaries on DVD/Blu releases. If it weren't for TT saying we will release this title if you aren't than you'd still be waiting. Many complain about the price points, but we know ahead of time when titles are coming so you may have to put a more readily available title on your wish list and buy it later on.... it won't go anywhere. TT releases are limited.

Sorry but I don't remember them saying Limited numbers for the Amazon exclusive set. Also while Beetlejuice the Complete series is on Amazon only they are still selling each season separately in stores.

TV Shows On DVD.

http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Bee...Season-1/18074

[filmmusic]

I had asked this again some days ago:
Does anyone know where i can watch a trailer of "The Only Game in Town"?
I can't find anything on the net..
and i'm thinking of buying the Bluray, because I love Elizabeth Taylor films.

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by filmmusic

I had asked this again some days ago:
Does anyone know where i can watch a trailer of "The Only Game in Town"?
I can't find anything on the net..
and i'm thinking of buying the Bluray, because I love Elizabeth Taylor films.

The Only Game in Town is a tough one to find much 'Net coverage for filmmusic, in no small part because it's had an almost non-existent history on home video (in the U.S. only a panned & scanned Magnetic Video VHS tape). If you're curious about it though, you can view the entire movie on YouTube, but personally, I hate watching anything with AQ and PQ that degraded...especially if its my first experience with the film. What does exist for this title as a kind of preview, is the following video retro-'tribute':

Only Game

That should at least give you some idea of what it is about plus its overall style without ruining your pleasure of seeing it for the first time in HD. The film will be virgin turf for me too, but I do know it was a colossal flop theatrically, which has always made me curious how something starring Liz Taylor and Warren Beatty, directed by George Stevens, written by Frank D. Gilroy, and scored by the legendary Maurice Jarre could have turned out that badly. Like some of TT's other lost-in-the-vault titles, it might simply be a film which was misunderstood and ignored at the time of its release, thus worthy of reconsideration and reappreciation.

I'm in the dark with this one just as much as you are...

[Blu-Velvet]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

The Only Game in Town is a tough one to find much 'Net coverage for filmmusic, in no small part because it's had an almost non-existent history on home video (in the U.S. only a panned & scanned Magnetic Video VHS tape). If you're curious about it though, you can view the entire movie on YouTube, but personally, I hate watching anything with AQ and PQ that degraded...especially if its my first experience with the film. What does exist for this title as a kind of preview, is the following video retro-'tribute':

[Show spoiler]Only Game

That should at least give you some idea of what it is about plus its overall style without ruining your pleasure of seeing it for the first time in HD. The film will be virgin turf for me too, but I do know it was a colossal flop theatrically, which has always made me curious how something starring Liz Taylor and Warren Beatty, directed by George Stevens, written by Frank D. Gilroy, and scored by the legendary Maurice Jarre could have turned out that badly. Like some of TT's other lost-in-the-vault titles, it might simply be a film which was misunderstood and ignored at the time of its release, thus worthy of reconsideration and reappreciation.

I'm in the dark with this one just as much as you are...

I remember seeing the trailer when it first came out and an old 16mm print years later. The greenish color quality is pretty much the same as it looked then. The original release was also much grainier than most films of the time. I'm not expecting the Blu-ray to look anywhere near as impressive as typical releases, even if scanned from the camera negative. The film also was not well received by either critics or audiences, though might be of interest for fans of Elizabeth Taylor, Warren Beatty, or George Stevens.