Concern over 4k and replacing

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The X1 outputs PCM in either 2.0 or 5.1, with pic and sound thru HDMI 1, or with split pic (HDMI 1) and sound (HDMI 2) for those whose amps don't have HDCP 2.x compatibility - which is pretty much everyone!

Yeah and I purchased a Onkyo PR-SC5508P just a year and ½ ago with v1.4 HDMI . I have posted on the Emotiva board if the upcoming XMC-1 can have the HDMI 1.4 PWA changed to a 2.0 version.

[raygendreau]

Here's a link to his review: http://www.amazon.com/review/RJF77O1...x17O64ZYVIN3OL

I'll be checking his next update to it after he finishes the cal. Obviously, if someone has a question you can leave a comment for him. He responds in a matter of minutes.

My last exchange with him. He doesn't think he's an early adopter.


"You are more of a risk taker than I am. An Early Adopter. Many people will wait around to see what the BDA comes up with for a 4K disc specification. I will probably start upgrading to 4K with a purchase of a PS4 which will have access to the 4K download service.

Once you have completed your calibration perhaps you could compare a standard BD with a 4K download, assuming you have the same movie on your 4K media player and on BD. I would be very interested in your comparison, particularly of the color palette. I watched the 4K demo running on the Sony at my local best Buy. I was impressed, but didn't have any direct comparison.

You can bet that there are many people reading your review and following your comments."


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In reply to your post on Oct 9, 2013 3:12:13 PM PDT

Matthew J. Liptak says:

I have to disagree there. I agree I early adopted this set however, I did very careful research on several sites and had several in store demos at Best Buy. I contacted Sony a dozen times to discuss with tech specialists, many of which were not even up to speed with 4K. I tend to adopt what Sony adopts however since they were the first to choose Blu Ray with PS3 systems. Sony knows what they are doing and I was looking to upgrade to a 65" anyway so why not go with the latest and greatest image. The tech comes at 10am tomorrow and I will be sure to keep you up to date. From what he says, he will make this pop and I will see a clear difference in color and grey scale and blacks etc. I am not regretting spending the extra amount on this set since this is a definite improvement over regular HD. I am also purchasing the Sony PS4 and with the side by side game play allowed on this set, it will be awesome!

(edit) Liptak updated his review after calibration was completed:

"UPDATE 10/10: I had the Set calibrated today by a 20+ year Professional Calibration technician with some high speed calibration equipment. Adjusted Grey Scale, black levels, color etc. What a difference. Sony was not off with factory settings he mentioned, however he adjusted to Custom Settings and adjusted all sorts of levels including Gamma and it is unbelievable. Everything is in natural tone like it should be and now this set is even more magnificent. This now looks like it should and the 4K really pops! Awesome!"

[Geoff D]

I'd love to know what colour space/bit depth/subsampling Sony are employing on their 4K downloads.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I'd love to know what colour space/bit depth/subsampling Sony are employing on their 4K downloads.

It is Rec. 709, H.264, 8 bit, 4:2:0. Rec. 2020 (for UHD) requires 10 or 12 bit.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 9, 2013 12:03:00 PM PDT
Last edited by the author 1 hour ago

Matthew J. Liptak says:

Yes it is. You have to have an internet connection for this media player to even function....

Old news to some. Compare the posting dates…. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...wn#post8221349

Ray, keep up with the other threads on Blu-ray.com or I’ll have you slipping not only on epidermis ( https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...is#post8204697 ) but also dermis and juicy subcutaneous fat.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

I do question how the sound can be "improved". We already have lossless audio with many Blu-Rays... you can't really get much better than lossless...

To remedy your questioning with answers, do due diligence by reading and following the complimentary links - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...io#post8219733 for some explanation as to improved audio. The linked YouTube clip is also rather good, in my opinion, for it shows dem extra speakers.

Or, in short, see Section 3 of the SMPTE’s UHDTV Initial Report of the UHDTV
Ecosystem Study Group….https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...tv#post8153506

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Old news to some. Compare the posting dates…. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...wn#post8221349

Ray, keep up with the other threads on Blu-ray.com or I’ll have you slipping not only on epidermis ( https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...is#post8204697 ) but also dermis and juicy subcutaneous fat.

I read those posts, which is why I asked him the question. I always like to confirm info I see on the forum directly with someone confirmed to actually own the product and is in fact using it.

There is a lot of conflicting info floating around about this product. I'll take real time empirical evidence over something I read in a thread every time, wouldn't you?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

To remedy your questioning with answers, do due diligence by reading and following the complimentary links - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...io#post8219733 for some explanation as to improved audio. The linked YouTube clip is also rather good, in my opinion, for it shows dem extra speakers.

Or, in short, see Section 3 of the SMPTE’s UHDTV Initial Report of the UHDTV
Ecosystem Study Group….https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...tv#post8153506

^
Reminds me, with regards to SMPTE, the amendment to the original standard SMPTE ST428-11:2009 first described here - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...te#post8160633),

Just today, SMPTE published the actual amendment to this standard under the name of SMPTE ST428-11:2013. For those so interested, it can be found here - http://standards.smpte.org/content/9....body.pdf+html

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

...I'll take real time empirical evidence over something I read in a thread every time, wouldn't you?

Depends on the thread and the track record of the poster. What I post you can take to the bank.

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Depends on the thread and the track record of the poster. What I post you can take to the bank.

Thanks, but I'm nearly 73 and my way has worked for all of my adult life.

Trust but verify!

You know as well as I do that things change rapidly during the introduction of a new product, particularly now. You might make a statement that is accurate at the time, but an internet delivered firmware update makes you wrong a few minutes after you post. For example regarding compatibility of the product with Sony's 4K projector:

"Compatibility.
The Sony 4K Ultra HD Media Player (FMP-X1) is only compatible with Sony 4K Ultra HD TVs. It is not compatible with 4K Ultra HD TVs from any other brand. A solution to ensure compatibility of Video Unlimited 4K with the VPL-VW1000ES 4K Projector will be available in the coming months"

But:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1474705/so...e-vpl-vw1000es

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Depends on the thread and the track record of the poster.

I would recommend to ANYONE that is considering the purchase of the FMP-X1 wait till someone like Thomas J. Norton, Kris Deering or Art Feierman publishes and/or post a review of said unit.

I like to read Joe Rod's assessment of equipment, he can be colorful. He purchased one back in July and was/(is?) livid that it would not work with his VPL-VW1000ES. Word is it will be November before Sony will have a fix for the 1000's.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

It is Rec. 709, H.264, 8 bit, 4:2:0. Rec. 2020 (for UHD) requires 10 or 12 bit.

I thought as much, thanks.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

Thanks, but I'm nearly 73 and my way has worked for all of my adult life.

Trust but verify!

You know as well as I do that things change rapidly during the introduction of a new product, particularly now. You might make a statement that is accurate at the time, but an internet delivered firmware update makes you wrong a few minutes after you post. For example regarding compatibility of the product with Sony's 4K projector:

"Compatibility.
The Sony 4K Ultra HD Media Player (FMP-X1) is only compatible with Sony 4K Ultra HD TVs. It is not compatible with 4K Ultra HD TVs from any other brand. A solution to ensure compatibility of Video Unlimited 4K with the VPL-VW1000ES 4K Projector will be available in the coming months"

But:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1474705/so...e-vpl-vw1000es

True, but remember whether it be a poor uninformed tech support staffer, or a Vice President responsible for intentionally misleading statements about a Blu-ray movie mastering…https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...2A#post6782166

They are only "horses’ mouths", as described by the poster on AVS. Humbly (as I’m just trying to save you some time), track record over the years has shown me to have a horse’s mouth, horse’s mind and horse’s heart, sorta like Seabiscuit - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...it#post8129563

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

It is Rec. 709, H.264, 8 bit, 4:2:0. Rec. 2020 (for UHD) requires 10 or 12 bit.

Since you mention Rec.2020, in order to give you an idea of the specifics of the direction for UHD technology with regards to future standards setting…amongst the actual folks (engineers and scientists) that brought you Recommendation ITU-R BT.2020, currently there is ongoing discussion as to UHD profiles because we need to set the complete UHDTV ecosystem chain and standards help make sure we agree on a single common version for UHDTV or Ultra HD; whatever is your phrase of choice.

So, people are considering a first UHD-1 phase which could be 4K (p50/60) including the possibility of 1080p100/120. This profile would be limited to the Rec.709 color space but, would have 10-bit bit-depth
(with 12-bit optional) and some HDR capabilities. Then, a more advanced UHD-1 profile would support 100 and 120 fps 4K resolution as well as the ITU-R BT.2020 color space and HDR capability. On the far distant horizon, the most advanced profile would be
the 8K/120 system, to include all parameters defined in ITU-R BT.2020.

Audio in the profiles would expand from 5.1 support up to fully immersive and object-based methods as they were to become available over time.

*4K = 2160p
*8K = 4320p

[Geoff D]

Well, given how current UHD/4K consumer display tech doesn't seem to show any sign of being able to operate outside of Rec.709 anyway, a two-stage process is practically a given at this point.

It's not ideal for us early 4K adopters, whose gear will become just as outdated as everyone else's if/once the advanced profile is adopted, but 'twas ever thus.

[Canada]

Don't replace all you Blu-ray's only some, from what I heard Blu-ray upconverted to 4K will be a lot better than DVD upconverted to 1080p just because Blu-ray is already high definition and DVD isn't.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Canada

Don't replace all you Blu-ray's only some, from what I heard Blu-ray upconverted to 4K will be a lot better than DVD upconverted to 1080p just because Blu-ray is already high definition and DVD isn't.

Personally speaking, I have no intention of replacing my blurays. Just new films that I think will look awesome I will purchase in 4k. Maybe the odd catalogue title.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Personally speaking...

I'm here...https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ne#post8235030

And need some music input as it seems everyone else across the pond is asleep.

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I'd love to know what colour space/bit depth/subsampling Sony are employing on their 4K downloads.

Now, the company has launched its second-generation of that technology with a new StudioRes option that'll stuff 4k, 10-bit, 4:2:2 video onto the latest UltraHD screens like Sony's $25k 84-inch XBR model.

• eyeIO StudioRes. Built to Hollywood's 4K requirements, eyeIO StudioRes delivers UltraHD, studio-grade H.264 videos (10 bit, 4:2:2 video, xvYCC). eyeIO StudioRes is available for both package media and Internet streaming delivery to bring no-compromise pictures to the next generation of 85" and larger UltraHD/4K screens.

eyeIO also claims its software creates StudioRes and existing HDRes H.264 files 45 percent zippier now, while using 26 percent less bandwidth for "super-fast playback and even clearer, crisper images" in both 2D and 3D on TVs, computers and mobile devices. The company also announced the forthcoming eyeOS UNIX OS for enterprise level 4k video coming next Spring, along with support for the upcoming H.265 standard through its eyeIO.265 product

http://www.engadget.com/2012/12/21/n...-10-bit-video/

xvYCC-709 (1≤Y'Cb'Cr'≤254)

http://home.roadrunner.com/~res18h39/gamuts.htm

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I'm here...https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ne#post8235030

And need some music input as it seems everyone else across the pond is asleep.

Answered