HDR Discussion Thread

[Waboman]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

the cat - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=8591 tells me she wants to see the golfer dislocating his ankle….didn’t realize it was possible for a human to do that sort of thing in celebration.

Don't make the play if you can't handle the celebration.

Congrats to Reed who held on to victory, glory and the green jacket. And even tho Spieth didn't win, he was only the second person to shoot a 64 on the final day. Dave, give him a canned ham.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

From ^
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah5ufhBcQxA#t=43m49s

For those of you who don't watch golf, but got way too excited with some of those ^ Rio Carnival dancers, I have a solution for you naughty boys ….https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrMTLV2cR2Q#t=1m3s

[DanBa]

Originally Posted by DanBa

UHD Phase B Guidelines document is now officially out.
https://ultrahdforum.org/resources/p...s-description/
https://ultrahdforum.org/wp-content/...lines-v1.0.pdf

UHD Phase B = UHD Phase A (i.e. HDR10 + HEVC HLG) + Dolby Vision + SL-HDR1 (i.e. Technicolor HDR)

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

C-LED as some prefer to say/write. Sony has plans too….other than for the movie screening on the Crystal LED in June at the Google Event Center which I mentioned months ago.

Follow-up to a post from about a week before ^-> the press conference….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah5ufhBcQxA#t=8m9s

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

years later from the cloud, be these workflow-oriented services:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah5ufhBcQxA#t=15m19s

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DanBa

Demystifying the Max Frame rate standards ecosystem, p.12-13…. https://tech.ebu.ch/docs/tech-i/tech-i-035.pdf

[zmarty]

DaVinci Resolve 15 has been released. New HDR related features:
- Support for native HDR10+ controls in DaVinci Resolve Studio
- Support for GPU accelerated Dolby VisionTM HDR to SDR metadata generation in DaVinci Resolve Studio
- Support for license activated GPU accelerated Dolby VisionTM internal CMU in DaVinci Resolve Studio

[DanBa]

"Universal #UHD #HDR can be done.
No more excuses and no format wars @UltraHDForum #NABShow"
https://twitter.com/paolopescatore/s...74098734092289

[Robert Zohn]

Is this saying they can decode HDR10, HDR+, Dolby Vision and HLG on the same display?

I see LG's C8 and a Sony TV in the picture.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by DanBa

"Universal #UHD #HDR can be done.
No more excuses and no format wars @UltraHDForum #NABShow"
https://twitter.com/paolopescatore/s...74098734092289

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Is this saying they can decode HDR10, HDR+, Dolby Vision and HLG on the same display?

I see LG's C8 and a Sony TV in the picture.

I'm guessing everything but HDR10+ since it's pretty much Samsung tilting at windmills.

[DanBa]

Originally Posted by gkolb

I can’t presume to answer for Penton, but as for Q.2, it’s my opinion that ‘said’ license fees for hardware and software (movies) are so reasonable that when they are baked into the retail prices you can’t tell a DoVi included item from one that is only HDR10.

Take movies for example, there are numerous catalog titles released by Lionsgate with an SRP of $22.99 that include DoVi. These titles are no higher or lower priced than HDR10 releases. And brand new release titles from Sony and Disney are retailing for the same price as HDR10 only releases were selling for before DoVi was included.

As for hardware, LG, Sony and Philips players with DoVi sell for reasonable prices, similar to prices for Samsung and non-DoVi Sony players. The prices for ultra high-end Panasonic or Oppo players can’t really be equated with the other mass market players due to superior build quality and feature sets.

When it comes to TV’s, prices are so far all over the place it’s nigh impossible to do comparisons.
Note though that Vizio and TCL manage to include DoVi and still sell at sub $1,000 prices.

So opinions and arguments from many folks about “costly” DoVi licensing fees just don’t hold any water in my opinion. I don’t believe they could prove how much more anyone has had to pay for a Dolby Vision product. End of story.

Vizio E43 compatible with Dolby Vision at only $350:
https://www.vizio.com/tvs/eseries/e43f1.html
https://www.cnet.com/news/vizio-2018...ming-for-less/

[Staying Salty]

https://www.provideocoalition.com/na...hdr-in-cinema/

Our process: Life is more beautiful at 4000 nits, but less predictable. Expose for EDR/HDR as a creative possibility. Remember that HDR is not the same as EDR. Define tech requirements for the EXRs so we don’t bake in LUTs or other destructive changes. You want to avoid having the DP look at the colorist and say “that’s not my movie” (as happened on Coco, the initial HDR grade was way too saturated and it had to be backed off). We’ve been working (editorial, not grading) in Rec.709, with HDR LUTs for preview, and some LG OLEDs in production for review.

What makes for cinematic motion? Suspension of disbelief, ill defined personal preference, e.g., 24fps. I’ve been investigating judder (non-smooth motion, false multiple edges, edge flickering, motion blur, etc.). In real world, things move continuously; at 24fps they jump and stutter. By upping frame rate, the “jump size” decreases and motion is smoother. But taken too far, this leads to “soap opera effect” or the “video game look” which may people dislike.

[Penton-Man]

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...er#post7935526

https://www.scenarist.com/scenarist-...ation-program/

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Staying Salty

What makes for cinematic motion? Suspension of disbelief, ill defined personal preference, e.g., 24fps. I’ve been investigating judder (non-smooth motion, false multiple edges, edge flickering, motion blur, etc.). In real world, things move continuously; at 24fps they jump and stutter. By upping frame rate, the “jump size” decreases and motion is smoother. But taken too far, this leads to “soap opera effect” or the “video game look” which may people dislike.

^ A.C. joined Dolby Labs just a few months earlier than Sean - https://www.smpte.org/about/awards-p...ournal-winners

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Staying Salty

https://www.provideocoalition.com/na...hdr-in-cinema/

Thanks salty, the comment from the Pixar guy at the end of his notes was very revealing: DV on disc is "too risky right now"

Messrs Penton and 2themax, anything you'd like to share with the group? Is the encoding for DV to disc still the major hurdle here, or are there other issues with the DV grading itself?

[Staying Salty]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Thanks salty, the comment from the Pixar guy at the end of his notes was very revealing: DV on disc is "too risky right now"

Messrs Penton and 2themax, anything you'd like to share with the group? Is the encoding for DV to disc still the major hurdle here, or are there other issues with the DV grading itself?

Master for the future: typically within 4000 nit, but displays will always have limits, so use display mapping for different release channels. The master should always have everything you want. HDR10 to disk for now, Dolby Vision (DV) for digital distribution where possible. We love DV but it’s too risky right now to send out on disk; on digital distro we can always re-tweak; so on disk it’s HDR10 for now. DV for the next disk release?

I took that to mean some type of work flow distribution and not consumer discs. I am not going to hit the button until the insiders respond.

[Geoff D]

Dude, he literally says it's too risky to send out DV on disc. By "digital distro" he means streaming platforms where you can swap out a stream with ease (as I mentioned here: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...+#post14911287) but disc is a fixed one-time encode so what are these issues that's got Pixar so wary of implementing DV on disc? I did my own musing on why DV is tricky to lay down onto disc https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...8#post14525078 so I'm not saying it's a cinch, FAR from it, but there seems to be something else that's troubling Pixar about it.

[Staying Salty]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Dude, he literally says it's too risky to send out DV on disc. By "digital distro" he means streaming platforms where you can swap out a stream with ease (as I mentioned here: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...+#post14911287) but disc is a fixed one-time encode so what are these issues that's got Pixar so wary of implementing DV on disc? I did my own musing on why DV is tricky to lay down onto disc https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...8#post14525078 so I'm not saying it's a cinch, FAR from it, but there seems to be something else that's troubling Pixar about it.

Yep, my bad. I should have paid more attention, it wasn’t Pixelogic, but Pixar (Coco was a big clue).

As for HDR “Protect me from knowing what I don’t need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don’t know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.”

[MisterXDTV]

Why the big difference in bitrate between DV additional video tracks?


Tomb Raider

Video: MPEG-H HEVC Video / 56553 kbps / 2160p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 Profile 5.1 High / 4:2:0 / 10 bits / HDR / BT.2020 / *
Video: * MPEG-H HEVC Video / 7627 kbps / 1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 Profile 5.1 High / 4:2:0 / 10 bits / Dolby Vision / BT.2020 / *

Star Wars VIII

Video: MPEG-H HEVC Video / 45913 kbps / 2160p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 Profile 5.1 High / 4:2:0 / 10 bits / HDR / BT.2020 / *
Video: * MPEG-H HEVC Video / 73 kbps / 1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 Profile 5.1 High / 4:2:0 / 10 bits / Dolby Vision / BT.2020 / *

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

Why the big difference in bitrate between DV additional video tracks?

[Show spoiler] Tomb Raider

Video: MPEG-H HEVC Video / 56553 kbps / 2160p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 Profile 5.1 High / 4:2:0 / 10 bits / HDR / BT.2020 / *
Video: * MPEG-H HEVC Video / 7627 kbps / 1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 Profile 5.1 High / 4:2:0 / 10 bits / Dolby Vision / BT.2020 / *

Star Wars VIII

Video: MPEG-H HEVC Video / 45913 kbps / 2160p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 Profile 5.1 High / 4:2:0 / 10 bits / HDR / BT.2020 / *
Video: * MPEG-H HEVC Video / 73 kbps / 1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 Profile 5.1 High / 4:2:0 / 10 bits / Dolby Vision / BT.2020 / *

Um, Wow, that's a really good question that seems to defy current understanding of DV metadata +12-bit second layers.
One of the Experts or Insiders may be able to help.