HDR Discussion Thread - Page 256 - Blu-ray Forum

Geoff D · 04-24-2018, 10:27 AM

My ZD9 recently got updated with the HLG iplayer! Huzzah! It'd be nice to know ahead of time that they were actually doing these tests, mind you...

Penton-Man · 04-24-2018, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

as to Cinema LED

http://www.ymagis.com/wp-content/upl...018_HTM_EN.pdf

gkolb · 04-24-2018, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

http://www.ymagis.com/wp-content/upl...018_HTM_EN.pdf

I like it. Adaptive and forward thinking.

Mr. Penton, is this company primarily Euro-centric?
Is someone in the Americas also working towards a similar concept?

DisplayCalNoob · 04-24-2018, 09:05 PM

So, I got myself into a little back and forth with Steve Shaw from Light Illusion. The conversation was about whether or not dynamic metadata is a crutch for displays that don't match or exceed the mastering monitor peak nits. He believes this is the case because the mastering monitor doesn't use metadata. When I told him, that I read a article by a colorist, that has said that he use a LG OLED C7 to color grade DoVi, it can't be done because the LG rolls off at the high end of EOTF.

Lastly I asked for his opinion on Vincent Teoh recent video on dynamic metadata and displays with a high peak brightness, this was his response..

My opinion is HDR is still the wild-west, and few TV do anything ‘nice’ or accurate with it.

For example, without knowing the EOTF roll-off employed within the TVs it is impossible to do any such visual comparison.

Therefor you would have to profile the displays first, to see what they are doing.

Then correct the errors, so they are accurate.

Only that would any visible comparison make any sense.

And as few manufacturers provide the required capabilities to correct their inaccurate internal configuration, that make it all impossible.

Home TV HDR presently sucks.

LordoftheRings · 04-24-2018, 09:26 PM

Three or five years from now HDR should be better. ...Streaming.

Penton-Man · 04-24-2018, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob

So, I got myself into a little back and forth with Steve Shaw from Light Illusion.....

Without him interjecting some LightSpace product to sell you during the conversation?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob

....Home TV HDR presently sucks.

Sick his nemesis (EvLee) on him.

Penton-Man · 04-25-2018, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gkolb

Mr. Penton, is this company primarily Euro-centric?

Yes, at last count, I think Germany slightly more installations than France.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gkolb

Is someone in the Americas also working towards a similar concept?

Market forces may determine that. Since competition generally brings out the best of whoever/whatever, I don’t think any neutral party would have reservations with the choice of another quality DCI compliant HDR solution capable of being integrated into the projector systems server.

Meanwhile, in terms of cinema LED displays and HDR uniformity, etc. some entrepreneurs have recently introduced themselves into the game, e.g. CEDA.

Penton-Man · 04-25-2018, 07:04 AM

To jog readers’ memories, they first introduced themselves with their method on these shores to interested parties around 1½ yrs, ago in L.A. area Nov. 1st 2016 - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...w#post12826906

DisplayCalNoob · 04-25-2018, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Without him interjecting some LightSpace product to sell you during the conversation?

Sick his nemesis (EvLee) on him.

I just knew that his first response would be to try to sell his calibration software to me, but he was more focused on defending his article I questioned.

Here's a surprising nugget, tone mapping kicks in, if the target display exceeds the mastering monitor.

Penton-Man · 04-25-2018, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Meanwhile, in terms of cinema LED displays and HDR uniformity, etc. some entrepreneurs have recently introduced themselves into the game, e.g. CEDA.

This morning, received a couple amusing PM queries asking who/what the hell I was referring to above ^ as apparently all the AV journo types that people read are clueless and never mentioned. Not CEDIA as in the show

– https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...a#post14070267

but rather CEDA (no i) as in the association - https://ceda.online/
No, I made no spelling error like I did apparently with dem islands around Vancouver.

Penton-Man · 04-25-2018, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Germany

Similar to Anfield, last night (LordoftheRings, I like doing those Youtube song videos too)

– https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...g#post14986783

I suspect Munich will be rockin tonight if Bayern wins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

....HDR

subtitles in HDR will be shown in a video next month in the SUBTECH 1 Symposium here in Munich…..https://www.irt.de/aktuell/news/alle-veranstaltungen/
although not mentioned much in the lay press, subtitle stuff, now with the HDR format(s) amongst us - http://www.w3.org/TR/2018/CR-ttml2-20180313/, is of some importance.

Come to think of it, we’ve come a long way baby since subtitling issues back in ’09 - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ight=subtitles

Penton-Man · 04-25-2018, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob

I just knew that his first response would be to try to sell his calibration software to me, but he was more focused on defending his article I questioned.....

Sick Tyler P. on him.

LordoftheRings · 04-25-2018, 09:51 PM

Ready? Philips' huge 4K monitor is the first with super-bright HDR

• https://www.engadget.com/2018/04/25/...play-hdr-1000/

gkolb · 04-25-2018, 11:39 PM

^^^ With all the issues in the other thread on (difficulty with) HDR enabled PC's, this feels like a hollow victory.

Unless you're in the content creation and/ or grading of HDR content on your PC.

LordoftheRings · 04-26-2018, 02:55 AM

Yes, a 43" HDR monitor, very bright.

When front projectors can do that, that'll be the day.
_____

HDR basic TV picture settings:

_____

Bonus - I know there is an 8K thread, and I also know that Penton is a man in constant exploration on everything development...all fronts, not just the western front.

DanBa · 04-26-2018, 08:46 AM

Eli Roth's "Death Wish" announced for Blu-ray and 4K Digital w/Dolby Vision:
https://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...y-vision/41490
http://www.4kfilme.de/death-wish-dolby-vision-film-fox/

All the major movie studios had committed to support Dolby Vision.
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-hi...l#post54453593

alexanderg823 · 04-26-2018, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanBa

Eli Roth's "Death Wish" announced for Blu-ray and 4K Digital w/Dolby Vision:
https://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...y-vision/41490
http://www.4kfilme.de/death-wish-dolby-vision-film-fox/

All the major movie studios had committed to support Dolby Vision.
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-hi...l#post54453593

Fantastic. Now I wonder if we'll see Samsung change their tune and release a software update for their 2018 QLEDs for DV support like Sony did.

puddy77 · 04-26-2018, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanBa

Eli Roth's "Death Wish" announced for Blu-ray and 4K Digital w/Dolby Vision:
https://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...y-vision/41490
http://www.4kfilme.de/death-wish-dolby-vision-film-fox/

[Show spoiler]

All the major movie studios had committed to support Dolby Vision.
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-hi...l#post54453593

Sorry Dan, but I don't think means much. It's not Fox going for DV. It's an MGM film. And their stuff already uses DV on Vudu. Fox just distributes their discs. If they had released a 4k disc with DV, then it would be significant. But for now it's still status quo

Geoff D · 04-26-2018, 03:39 PM

Is it an MGM film outright or was it another co-production a la Creed and Mag 7? Because if this is MGM's first solo movie released on UHD disc (via Fox, as we know) then that's still significant news.

You know what the weird thing is though about Fox UHDs in recent months? They've stopped listing the metadata for the black level as 0 nits and they've started using 0.005 which, last I heard, was indicative of a Dolby Pulsar being used for mastering...

PeterTHX · 04-26-2018, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puddy77

Sorry Dan, but I don't think means much. It's not Fox going for DV. It's an MGM film. And their stuff already uses DV on Vudu. Fox just distributes their discs. If they had released a 4k disc with DV, then it would be significant. But for now it's still status quo

Fox authors and distributes this title.

Agreed if they did a DV disc it would be huge news, but MGM has yet to do a 4K disc on their own.

04-24-2018, 09:05 PM	#5104
DisplayCalNoob Active Member Member since:Nov 2017	So, I got myself into a little back and forth with Steve Shaw from Light Illusion. The conversation was about whether or not dynamic metadata is a crutch for displays that don't match or exceed the mastering monitor peak nits. He believes this is the case because the mastering monitor doesn't use metadata. When I told him, that I read a article by a colorist, that has said that he use a LG OLED C7 to color grade DoVi, it can't be done because the LG rolls off at the high end of EOTF. Lastly I asked for his opinion on Vincent Teoh recent video on dynamic metadata and displays with a high peak brightness, this was his response.. My opinion is HDR is still the wild-west, and few TV do anything ‘nice’ or accurate with it. For example, without knowing the EOTF roll-off employed within the TVs it is impossible to do any such visual comparison. Therefor you would have to profile the displays first, to see what they are doing. Then correct the errors, so they are accurate. Only that would any visible comparison make any sense. And as few manufacturers provide the required capabilities to correct their inaccurate internal configuration, that make it all impossible. Home TV HDR presently sucks. Last edited by DisplayCalNoob; 04-24-2018 at 09:18 PM.

04-26-2018, 08:46 AM	#5116
DanBa Senior Member Member since:Sep 2010	Fox's first home released Dolby Vision movie Eli Roth's "Death Wish" announced for Blu-ray and 4K Digital w/Dolby Vision: https://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...y-vision/41490 http://www.4kfilme.de/death-wish-dolby-vision-film-fox/ All the major movie studios had committed to support Dolby Vision. http://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-hi...l#post54453593

04-24-2018, 10:27 AM	#5101
Geoff D Blu-ray Emperor Top contributor Member since:Feb 2009 Location:Swanage, Engerland 4K collection:1348 Blu-ray collection:2525 Blu-ray reviews: 6 Trading Score:33	My ZD9 recently got updated with the HLG iplayer! Huzzah! It'd be nice to know ahead of time that they were actually doing these tests, mind you...

04-24-2018, 09:26 PM	#5105
LordoftheRings Special Member Top contributor Member since:Mar 2010 Location:Portishead ♫	Three or five years from now HDR should be better. ...Streaming.

04-25-2018, 07:04 AM	#5108
Penton-Man Retired Hollywood Insider Member since:Apr 2007	To jog readers’ memories, they first introduced themselves with their method on these shores to interested parties around 1½ yrs, ago in L.A. area Nov. 1st 2016 - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...w#post12826906

04-25-2018, 09:51 PM	#5113
LordoftheRings Special Member Top contributor Member since:Mar 2010 Location:Portishead ♫	Ready? Philips' huge 4K monitor is the first with super-bright HDR • https://www.engadget.com/2018/04/25/...play-hdr-1000/

04-25-2018, 11:39 PM	#5114
gkolb Blu-ray Samurai Top contributor Member since:Feb 2012 Location:Bakersfield, CA 4K collection:977 Blu-ray collection:2939 DVD collection:273	^^^ With all the issues in the other thread on (difficulty with) HDR enabled PC's, this feels like a hollow victory. Unless you're in the content creation and/ or grading of HDR content on your PC.

04-26-2018, 03:39 PM	#5119
Geoff D Blu-ray Emperor Top contributor Member since:Feb 2009 Location:Swanage, Engerland 4K collection:1348 Blu-ray collection:2525 Blu-ray reviews: 6 Trading Score:33	Is it an MGM film outright or was it another co-production a la Creed and Mag 7? Because if this is MGM's first solo movie released on UHD disc (via Fox, as we know) then that's still significant news. You know what the weird thing is though about Fox UHDs in recent months? They've stopped listing the metadata for the black level as 0 nits and they've started using 0.005 which, last I heard, was indicative of a Dolby Pulsar being used for mastering...

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