HDR Discussion Thread

[alexanderg823]

Originally Posted by Pieter V

Colorists on HDR:

https://postperspective.com/virtual-color-roundtable/

Ah,

There are also questions about how the filmmakers want to use the different ways of seeing the images. Sometimes they really like the qualities of the traditional theatrical standard and really don’t want HDR to look very different and to make the most of the dynamic range. If we have more dynamic range, more light, to work with, it means that in essence we have a larger “canvas” to work on. But you need to take the time to individually treat every shot if you want to get the most out of that “canvas.”

Sounds remarkably familiar!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I was thinking about you last evening after I saw this image of the pretty colored bottles on a Samsung Q9FN -

[Show spoiler]

at their Summit and then again later that night after getting my World Cup soccer fix and then watching Yellowstone at home - https://variety.com/2018/tv/news/yel...ng-1202856869/

so, what’s the progress on the cali disc? Anybody here been in contact with Stacey about this recently? Kris? Darin?

Wabo, if you know your classic American football, without googling it, who’d another John Dutton play for back in the day?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by alexanderg823

Ah,
Sounds remarkably familiar!

^
Stephen just became a new member of the Academy….http://www.app.oscars.org/newmembers2018/

Anyone know/have balls to guess how much the very top colorists in town (their facilities commercial rate, that is) charge per hour to color grade a feature film? It’s a little flexible/negotiable, but ballpark –
a. $200./hr.
b. $400./hr.
c. $600./hr.
d. $800./hr.
e. $1000./hr.
f. >$1000./hr.

[gkolb]

How about a hint?

How many billable hours for average feature film?
(If there is a reasonable average...)

[alexanderg823]

Originally Posted by gkolb

How about a hint?

How many billable hours for average feature film?
(If there is a reasonable average...)

In the article they it mentioned these days they spend more time on color grading, roughly 2-3 weeks as opposed to 7 days in the past.

So perhaps around 400-600 hours? (if one person is working on it?)

Maybe around $50K per film, so ~$1,000/hr?

I could be way off here.

[jibucha]

#5751 :: specifically :: 'So, in theory, adding HDR to 2001 for the UHD release is essentially artificially boosting of the colors, yes?'

no :: in original film capture the color/contrast/resolution was beyond even UHD (as it currently is implemented) :: so, in SDR/SD/etc and SDR/HD/etc, what was 'originally available/captured' was compressed/compromised as our previous formats were comparatively 'extremely limited' :: with, the current UHD/HDR (Dolby Vision)/etc standards, simply for the first time, we are able to further 'approximate' what was 'originally captured/intended'

so :: picture quality in UHD/HDR (currently) is simply an improved capability/format that allows for going back to the original content quality and presenting a more faithful reproduction via UHD of what was 'originally captured/intended' if the technology were available then

note :: there are other issues at play here, that i expect many will bring up, but this is the basics of it, and is accurate, and hopefully simple and to the point

note :: you should be realizing and improved viewing experience on you HD display, when viewing an UHD content on an UHD player; this is due basically (more controversy?) that the picture quality/elements are superior and translate to even your limited (comparatively) HD display viewing (yes :: it does get quite a bit better with 'viewed more completely' on an UHD/HDR/Dolby Vision display)

note :: HDR (specifically) - previous content :: no, using terminlogy as is currently in use "(HDR) was not a piece of the technoloy back then" :: more clearly though, the 'original dynamice range' was captured, simply due to content standards until now, unable to be utilized/translated, that now, with the capabilty of UHD/HDR (Dolby Vision) what was 'orignally captured/intended' is for the first time available (via UHD/Blu-ray)

note :: production workflow :: yes, using current production workflow (UHD/etc) applies to current film capture/production; again though, this applies equally to any film in any era of the past - equally (unfortunately though, the primary issue is the current condition of the original content given the realities of how well taken care of - the original - throughout the years by the studio while in storage, etc.)

Originally Posted by Jumpman

Forgive my intruding in this thread but I figured this was the absolute best place to ask this laymen's question. I'm still a novice with this technology. As of right now, I do not have UHD display but I do have a UHD player and a few UHD discs. The display is in the cards for later this year but I really wanted to get to the heart of my confusing with this format...

...is HDR nothing more than artificial boosting?

I ask it that way because I'm thinking about it from the cinema perspective. I know one of the points of HDR or THE point about HDR is about making the colors closer to real life but cinema, or most films, are not trying to replicate real life when it comes to the color palette.

Even with that, my level of confusing comes down to this; a film like BATMAN v SUPERMAN, from what I've read up on, had HDR as part of it's post production workflow so, in essences, the UHD disc of that film is pretty much THE closest approximation of that film. That part I get. But, 2001 is coming to the format this fall and, if I'm wrong, please correct me, HDR was not a piece of technology back then. So, in theory, adding HDR to 2001 for the UHD release is essentially artificially boosting of the colors, yes?

Sorry for the long post but I really hope someone can break this down to laymen's terms for me.

Thanks.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by jibucha

#5751 ::
note :: there are other issues at play here, that i expect many will bring up, but this is the basics of it,

Actually, I half-expected Bob in that AVForums link to end with - ’now you kids….keep off my lawn!!!!’

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by gkolb

How about a hint?

Alex is too fast!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by alexanderg823

....so ~$1,000/hr?
I could be way off here.

You are not.

Survey says…..f. > $1,000/hr.
Although not expressly revealed as such ^ in the HPA webinar, a feature (f.) which especially should not go unheeded by those who may be reading this thread and considering career choices, namely the YEPs –

HPA YEP Webinar: Color Theory and the Art of Color - YouTube

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Waboman

Wabo, the cicerones have shown up here - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...r#post15229932

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by puddy77

AV1 is released: https://www.anandtech.com/show/12601...-10-codec-spec

fairly recent presentation from my friends at Netflix… https://atscaleconference.com/videos...orkin-netflix/

Andrey’s, who I mentioned previously on this thread in the past regarding a completely different matter/content -

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

zmarty, need assistance ? on Meridian -



reaching out to Andrey....at Netflix may help, as he’s quite familiar with it.

presentation on Film Grain Synthesis in AV1 begins at ~ 12min. timestamp (the idea being to degrain/denoise the initial imagery before encoding it and then subsequently to add back in the grain or noise effect before output during the decoding process).

P.S.
Anne (from Netflix), maraming salamat ^

[DanBa]

A good start of the year for UHD HDR
https://blog.harmonicinc.com/good-start-year-uhd-hdr/

"On the technology side, the HDR battle has not ceased, despite both the Ultra HD Forum and the DVB standards committee selecting PQ10 [aka HDR10] and HLG back in 2016. Those HDR specifications are either without metadata (i.e., HLG) or with static metadata (i.e., PQ10). The industry has moved onto the deployment stage for both HDR specifications.

The ATSC 3.0 committee has now standardized A/3421 in addition to PQ10 and HLG, along with the dynamic metadata-based HDR specification Dolby Vision from Dolby and SL-HDR1 from Technicolor.

DVB has opened new commercial requirements to cover the existing specification of UHD-1 Phase 2, and the Ultra HD Forum has integrated those new HDR schemes in the Phase B Guidelines published this past April. In the enhanced version of the Ultra HD Forum Guidelines, new technologies appear, such as
• Next-generation HDR with dynamic metadata support (Dolby Vision and SL-HDR1)
• Object-based coding for next-generation audio
• High frame rate for 1080p100/120 sports content
• Content-aware encoding to bring the bitrate to more practical values for OTT deployments of UHD HDR."

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

fairly recent presentation from my friends at Netflix… https://atscaleconference.com/videos...orkin-netflix/

Andrey’s, who I mentioned previously on this thread in the past regarding a completely different matter/content -


presentation on Film Grain Synthesis in AV1 begins at ~ 12min. timestamp (the idea being to degrain/denoise the initial imagery before encoding it and then subsequently to add back in the grain or noise effect before output during the decoding process).

P.S.
Anne (from Netflix), maraming salamat ^

Didn't VC-1 have exactly the same thing, a means whereby they could regrain the movie on the fly?

[Waboman]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Wabo, the cicerones have shown up here - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...r#post15229932

Love me some Chicharróns.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DanBa

A good start of the year for UHD HDR

especially for folks in my neck of the woods, like me, who can now rent on the cheap some Ultra HD Blu-rays, pointed out by my USA bicycle glove (held to the screen by a fellow rider of today's group on the way home to choose one)….




And for those who might be interested, next week’s slate…..

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Didn't VC-1 have exactly the same thing, a means whereby they could regrain the movie on the fly?

With the exception of the development of MPEG-4 AVC encoders to counter VC-1, for example, discussed back in the day with the President of SPHE in a reply email to me here – https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...t#post13843411

I’ve pretty much deleted from my grey matter memory everything associated with VC-1 or the rival codecs of that time. With regards to AV1, I think the film grain synthesis is a pretty good feature for those who employ that codec because you can just figure that if there wasn’t this option, the streaming content deliverers would simply DNR the content to death to save on bandwidth. There are comparative subjective quality results/pics pointed out by Andrey at about the 23 min. timestamp of that above linked video to show the value of their film grain synthesis.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Waboman

Love me some Chicharróns.

after an all day epic ride, sitting down now with a cold brewski and feet up to watch France v. Argentina, then if have enough time, later on tonight Uruguay v. Portugal….knock out stage baby!....it’s getting serious. Win or go home.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

especially for folks in my neck of the woods, like me, who can now rent on the cheap some Ultra HD Blu-rays, pointed out by my USA bicycle glove (held to the screen by a fellow rider of today's group on the way home to choose one)….




And for those who might be interested, next week’s slate…..

I didn't know Redbox was releasing UHDs for rent...

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

I didn't know Redbox was releasing UHDs for rent...

At this point, available in some select cities only. To continue on from the last posted pic on the previous page, some more of the movies coming on 7/10, then 7/17 –

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

At this point, available in some select cities only. To continue on from the last posted pic on the previous page, some more of the movies coming on 7/10, then 7/17 –

Interesting; thanks Penton!