HDR Discussion Thread

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

No crashes on my 2018 LG C8 via USB, but it only plays as HDR10. . [And gets a thumbnail, which is a giveaway. The Profile 5 Dolby Vision version of the same video doesn't get a thumbnail, but plays as Dolby Vision]

Dolby really needs to pull its finger out and rapidly upgrade all the devices currently in use to recognise and support fully Profile 8.1/8.2/8.4. There will surely be a huge glut of Dolby Vision files being created and distributed by the people who are buying those telephones, and there will be mass confusion otherwise.

ps. Penton-Man your memory continues to astound me!

I dare say that people doing all this DV recording on smartphones won't be playing it back through a creaky old disc player though, most probably won't even own a disc player. They'll pipe it directly into their TVs and although not all of those will be compatible with the latest profiles, they can fix that by just buying the latest TV.

Dobly don't give a flying phuck about legacy gear, e.g. earlier DV TVs not having enough processing power to run the 4K60 Dolby Vision version of Gemini Man, the TV tells the player to bust it down to 1080p60 DV.

Originally Posted by Oniiz86

That's unfortunate, have you tried your Panasonic UB820? I wonder if the Panasonics & Sony's X700/X800M2 have greater DV profile support?

I did exactly that, it doesn't even play the file, just says "file not supported". You have to love how shit Panasonics are for file playback

But I'd be verr surprise if any disc players out there can handle 8.1 and up, the profiles they're compatible with seem to top out at UHD Blu-ray, which makes sense in a way.

[mrtickleuk]

The main thing is that it does "fall gracefully", as it's clearly and carefully designed to do.

Eg when 8.1 isn't supported you still get HDR10, which looks fantastic; when 8.4 isn't supported you still get HLG, which looks fantastic.

...Unless you have a Panasonic, from what you say (!), and it doesn't degrade nicely at all. Wasn't that supposed to be the whole point; you at least get the base layer?! Hmm. That said, I, personally, have no problem at all with disc players not supporting anything other than what's on the discs. I want a disc player to play discs very well. I don't like the concept that an ever-increasing proportion of it's R&D and retail price (and my money) being forced to be spent on chasing the impossible and never-ending goal of supporting streaming services which are constantly changing. People who want that need to realise they have to pay a lot of money for it. They can jolly well go out and buy a dedicated streaming device, or use their TV's built-in apps, and stop whining that their disc player isn't an all-in-one-everything player.

[Oniiz86]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I dare say that people doing all this DV recording on smartphones won't be playing it back through a creaky old disc player though, most probably won't even own a disc player. They'll pipe it directly into their TVs and although not all of those will be compatible with the latest profiles, they can fix that by just buying the latest TV.

Dobly don't give a flying phuck about legacy gear, e.g. earlier DV TVs not having enough processing power to run the 4K60 Dolby Vision version of Gemini Man, the TV tells the player to bust it down to 1080p60 DV.


I did exactly that, it doesn't even play the file, just says "file not supported". You have to love how shit Panasonics are for file playback

But I'd be verr surprise if any disc players out there can handle 8.1 and up, the profiles they're compatible with seem to top out at UHD Blu-ray, which makes sense in a way.

I know silly to ask but I'm assuming via USB playback the Sony Z9D would just fall back on HDR10 as it only supports LLDV Profile 5?

[BdoUK]

Last week I finally took the plunge and ordered a HDFury Vertex2 to pair with my JVC RS540. For those not aware the Vertex allows you to "trick" the source device into thinking your display is Dolby Vision capable. Obviously projectors can't hit peak brightness levels that DV offers, but through the usage of low latency Dolby Vision (LLDV) in the source device you can take advantage of the frame by frame tone mapping.

Setup of the Vertex2 was very easy. I placed the unit between my receiver and projector so I can take advantage with all sources, which are primarily Apple TV 4K and the Panasonic UB820. Once connected I entered the Vertex2 menu system and made a few small changes to enable LLDV. I also set the flag to keep HDR10 passing through as normal.

Finally I enabled Dolby Vision output on my UB820. Some players can force all signals into DV but the Panasonic will just send DV content out using LLDV. I kept the Apple TV set to Match Range On and did not force all content to be DV.

I spent the weekend going back through DV content via UHD, Disney+, Netflix and Apple Movies. Needless to say the image quality was simply outstanding! My JVC was calibrated by Chad B. and I'm using a custom 1000 nit target curve. This plays very well with the Vertex2 LLDV output which also targets 1000 nits.

Image quality wise everything I've sampled looks excellent. The JVC black levels combined with the improved highlight performance due to the tone mapping really make the image stand out. I was always happy with what the HDR Optimizer did from output on the Panasonic but felt I was missing something from streaming content. That's been solved (for DV content at least) with the addition of the Vertex2.

I would highly recommend this solution to anyone looking for better tone mapping in their setup. So far it's been rock solid, set and forget. Let me know if there are any questions and I'll do my best to answer.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

The main thing is that it does "fall gracefully", as it's clearly and carefully designed to do.

Eg when 8.1 isn't supported you still get HDR10, which looks fantastic; when 8.4 isn't supported you still get HLG, which looks fantastic.

...Unless you have a Panasonic, from what you say (!), and it doesn't degrade nicely at all. Wasn't that supposed to be the whole point; you at least get the base layer?! Hmm. That said, I, personally, have no problem at all with disc players not supporting anything other than what's on the discs. I want a disc player to play discs very well. I don't like the concept that an ever-increasing proportion of it's R&D and retail price (and my money) being forced to be spent on chasing the impossible and never-ending goal of supporting streaming services which are constantly changing. People who want that need to realise they have to pay a lot of money for it. They can jolly well go out and buy a dedicated streaming device, or use their TV's built-in apps, and stop whining that their disc player isn't an all-in-one-everything player.

As said: Panasonic players are awful for file playback in general, there's prolly another 10 reasons other than the 8.1 profile why it wouldn't play it. But yes, it's a good job the 820 is such good disc spinner because if I'd bought to play files on it would've gone straight back to the store. Thankfully the OPPO covers those bases rather well and even Sony's players are half-decent for file playback.

Originally Posted by Oniiz86

I know silly to ask but I'm assuming via USB playback the Sony Z9D would just fall back on HDR10 as it only supports LLDV Profile 5?

I'm not even gonna try, the front end for file playback on the TV is just terrible, it's a chore to use.

[puddy77]

I tried one of those DV 8.1 files on all my devices (via Plex streaming). Oddly, the Fire Stick 4k is the only one that gave me full DV+Atmos. Oppo told me the file wasn't supported. The new Chromecast w/GTV wouldn't play it either.

If anyone gets a new iPhone, please share a DV video to download. Or if you find one, please post a link. I'd like to see if anything of mine is compatible with the new 8.4 HLG DV.

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by Oniiz86

I know silly to ask but I'm assuming via USB playback the Sony Z9D would just fall back on HDR10 as it only supports LLDV Profile 5?

Not silly to ask, but as far as I know, that "Profile 5" limitation only applies to Sony's HDMI inputs. It might support more variations via USB/streaming apps. Especially if it's just HLG + metadata.

Given the experience of the Panasonic crashing and refusing to play files, it's definitely worth testing. I would not assume that any device falls back to HDR10, as it should. It's an excellent thing to want to know. The link is there - give it a try!

(As per yesterday Profile 5 is not at all the same thing as LLDV: AIUI LLDV is the first term that was used to describe whole end-to-end method by which players do a lot of the decoding work on behalf of the TV; that term has seeming been replaced with the term "player-led decoding", and applies to ALL DV codec Profiles and levels, not just Profile 5. Otherwise Sony TVs could not ever view 4k Blu-ray discs which are Profile 7 via "player-led decoding" players. No-one leapt into to correct me on that point so I will continue to believe this is the situation.)

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

Not silly to ask, but as far as I know, that "Profile 5" limitation only applies to Sony's HDMI inputs. It might support more variations via USB/streaming apps. Especially if it's just HLG + metadata.

Given the experience of the Panasonic crashing and refusing to play files, it's definitely worth testing. I would not assume that any device falls back to HDR10, as it should. It's an excellent thing to want to know. The link is there - give it a try!

(As per yesterday Profile 5 is not at all the same thing as LLDV: AIUI LLDV is the first term that was used to describe whole end-to-end method by which players do a lot of the decoding work on behalf of the TV; that term has seeming been replaced with the term "player-led decoding", and applies to ALL DV codec Profiles and levels, not just Profile 5. Otherwise Sony TVs could not ever view 4k Blu-ray discs which are Profile 7 via "player-led decoding" players. No-one leapt into to correct me on that point so I will continue to believe this is the situation.)

I'm not sure about your profiles assumption re: discs as the TV is not decoding the disc itself, all the TV is doing over HDMI is basically sending a signal to the player to tell it to decode the DV internally and the player is obliging, sending a pre-mapped output to the TV that is essentially HDR12 in all but name and not strictly a bespoke 'DV' signal any more.

In other words the TV itself doesn't need to be compatible with any particular profile when it comes to UHD discs, just the player? In theory this could extend to any number of DV profiles as long as the player can read and decode them (easier said than done), although where HLG is concerned that may be a profile too far as the TV is still applying the PQ EOTF to the incoming HDR12 DV signal, so if the player is outputting an 'HLG12' DV signal the TV might not know to switch to this other EOTF.

[BrownianMotion]

Originally Posted by puddy77

I tried one of those DV 8.1 files on all my devices (via Plex streaming). Oddly, the Fire Stick 4k is the only one that gave me full DV+Atmos. Oppo told me the file wasn't supported. The new Chromecast w/GTV wouldn't play it either.

If anyone gets a new iPhone, please share a DV video to download. Or if you find one, please post a link. I'd like to see if anything of mine is compatible with the new 8.4 HLG DV.

Fire Stick 4K might be the best device for HDR support out there. It supports just about every relevant format/profile.

[puddy77]

Apple updated iMovie with HDR support as well: https://9to5mac.com/2020/10/22/imovi...phone-12-more/

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

ps. Penton-Man your memory continues to astound me!

credit for one thing - brain food

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by puddy77

I tried one of those DV 8.1 files on all my devices (via Plex streaming). Oddly, the Fire Stick 4k is the only one that gave me full DV+Atmos. Oppo told me the file wasn't supported. The new Chromecast w/GTV wouldn't play it either.

If anyone gets a new iPhone, please share a DV video to download. Or if you find one, please post a link. I'd like to see if anything of mine is compatible with the new 8.4 HLG DV.

I've heard there’s an iPhone 12 Dolby Vision, Version 1.0, dvhe.08.04, BL+RPU, HLG compatible short video posted within the last couple days in the ‘Viewing Dolby Vision Content’ on webos-forums in the LG tv subforum. Haven’t tried it though, so don’t know if it works.

note - BL+RPU means base layer + reference picture unit

[puddy77]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I've heard there’s an iPhone 12 Dolby Vision, Version 1.0, dvhe.08.04, BL+RPU, HLG compatible short video posted within the last couple days in the ‘Viewing Dolby Vision Content’ on webos-forums in the LG tv subforum. Haven’t tried it though, so don’t know if it works.

note - BL+RPU means base layer + reference picture unit

Thanks Penton. But do you mind sharing a link? I think I have some advanced research skills, but with that info, I have no idea where to look. Google isn't helping.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by puddy77

Thanks Penton. But do you mind sharing a link? I think I have some advanced research skills, but with that info, I have no idea where to look. Google isn't helping.

can’t do now, maybe later this weekend, meanwhile try searching thru the last few pages of the respective thread over at
http://webos-forums.ru/
using your English translator

not sure I even want to endorse the file without trying it out as it is not an official Dolby or Apple provided sample...but if you need something to experiment with, go for it

[Penton-Man]

puddy, try this link and then go backwards to find the video file - http://webos-forums.ru/topic4970-1500.html

it’s a pain for me right now because every time I go to a previous page I have to reload again to enable an English translation with my device and just don't hav4e the time

[puddy77]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

can’t do now, maybe later this weekend, meanwhile try searching thru the last few pages of the respective thread over at
http://webos-forums.ru/
using your English translator

not sure I even want to endorse the file without trying it out as it is not an official Dolby or Apple provided sample...but if you need something to experiment with, go for it

Ah, a Chinese vid posted on a Russian forum. That explains it. Thanks Penton. How do you find these things?

Here's the Google Drive link if others want to try: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JsF...fqdFDP9JJ/view

I tried it. And again, the only device of mine that could play it was the Fire Stick 4k. It played the HLG layer, but with all the wrong colors. See attached pic.

[DanBa]

A DV 8.4 video:
https://www.makemkv.com/forum/viewto...p=98248#p98248

"Good News, this video sample can be recognized by Plex Media Server, and trigger Dolby Vision on Shield TV 2019."

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by puddy77

Ah, a Chinese vid posted on a Russian forum. That explains it. Thanks Penton. How do you find these things? ....

I can’t understand Russian, but I do float between - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...n#post12862020

[Lee A Stewart]

ULTRA HD FORUM UPDATES HDR, NEXT GEN AUDIO GUIDELINES

https://hdguru.com/ultra-hd-forum-up...io-guidelines/

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by puddy77

Ah, a Chinese vid posted on a Russian forum. That explains it. Thanks Penton. How do you find these things?

Here's the Google Drive link if others want to try: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JsF...fqdFDP9JJ/view

I tried it. And again, the only device of mine that could play it was the Fire Stick 4k. It played the HLG layer, but with all the wrong colors. See attached pic.

Yep, no go on the OPPO. It gets to 50% on the loading screen then hangs, I have to reboot the player to come out of it.