Samsung 4K UHD Blu-ray Player UBD-K8500

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by Tns49

I don't know about other sets, but the LG 2016 OLED's have gotten an update and you can now set HDMI deep Color to Auto. So apparently a handshake correction on the TV side.

From what I learned, no OLED model can output HDR content properly, not even the 2016 models.
Even if the 2016 OLEDs meet the minimum certification requirements for HDR they are not in fact displaying HDR properly... And the reason for this is quite simple. The HDR certification requirements have been fudged to allow OLED to be included despite having considerably lower figures than every single other type of technology displays. For example, the HDR certification Ultra HD Premium requires all displays to yield a minimum of 1,000 nits peak brightness... But OLED is currently incapable of delivering more than circa 600 nits, so they 'fudged' the criteria; wherein, as a result, the qualifying criteria dictates that all displays must yield a minimum of 1,000 nits peak brightness, except if the display is OLED, where as long as it delivers at least 540 nits it qualifies and it can join the HDR club. Seriously. How ridiculous is that?! You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that any TV displaying HDR with minimum 1,000 nits peak brightness will massively outperform a TV displaying HDR with only 540 nits peak brightness. And just to put into perspective just how ridiculous this is, the 1,000 nits peak brightness qualification figure is an intermediate figure where the target is in fact 4,000 - 10,000 nits; but since no display is currently able to deliver that they settled on 1,000 nits for the time being with the intention of evolving matters towards 4,000 - 10,000 nits in the future. So 540 nits peak brightness is comparatively woefully insufficient. Sorry. And IMO OLEDs wonderful black levels are not enough to balance this gargantuan flaw of epic proportions with respect to existing OLED TVs.

[Tns49]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

From what I learned, no OLED model can output HDR content properly, not even the 2016 models.
Even if the 2016 OLEDs meet the minimum certification requirements for HDR they are not in fact displaying HDR properly... And the reason for this is quite simple. The HDR certification requirements have been fudged to allow OLED to be included despite having considerably lower figures than every single other type of technology displays. For example, the HDR certification Ultra HD Premium requires all displays to yield a minimum of 1,000 nits peak brightness... But OLED is currently incapable of delivering more than circa 600 nits, so they 'fudged' the criteria; wherein, as a result, the qualifying criteria dictates that all displays must yield a minimum of 1,000 nits peak brightness, except if the display is OLED, where as long as it delivers at least 540 nits it qualifies and it can join the HDR club. Seriously. How ridiculous is that?! You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that any TV displaying HDR with minimum 1,000 nits peak brightness will massively outperform a TV displaying HDR with only 540 nits peak brightness. And just to put into perspective just how ridiculous this is, the 1,000 nits peak brightness qualification figure is an intermediate figure where the target is in fact 4,000 - 10,000 nits; but since no display is currently able to deliver that they settled on 1,000 nits for the time being with the intention of evolving matters towards 4,000 - 10,000 nits in the future. So 540 nits peak brightness is comparatively woefully insufficient. Sorry. And IMO OLEDs wonderful black levels are not enough to balance this gargantuan flaw of epic proportions with respect to existing OLED TVs.

Nothing to do with my previous post. However if you have seen these set in a typical lighting situation, you would realize that these sets do in fact take advantage of the HDRange even if less bright then the brightest set (still in fact brighter than many non-HDR models). The total experience is such that most expect them to take this year's TV Shootout.


The point of my previous post is the HDMI deep color setting (which actually is a rare setting used by only a handful of HD Blu-rays) had to be turned off in some configurations, can now be set to auto (along with the other settings that can be set to Auto) on the K8500. Before the update the sets would end up with no picture if set to auto. Some non LG UHD also had reported problems.

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by Tns49

Nothing to do with my previous post. However if you have seen these set in a typical lighting situation, you would realize that these sets do in fact take advantage of the HDRange even if less bright then the brightest set (still in fact brighter than many non-HDR models). The total experience is such that most expect them to take this year's TV Shootout.


The point of my previous post is the HDMI deep color setting (which actually is a rare setting used by only a handful of HD Blu-rays) had to be turned off in some configurations, can now be set to auto (along with the other settings that can be set to Auto) on the K8500. Before the update the sets would end up with no picture if set to auto. Some non LG UHD also had reported problems.

Are you referring to Deep Color setting on the BD player or on the LG Oled TV??

[rroeder]

I finally got the player and watched Sicario last night, great movie and beautiful picture. What I noticed was more detail but also brighter picture and colors. I have a non HDR Sony tv.

I compared the bluray with resolution set to 1080p and RGB/standard settings, while a subtle diff between the 2 discs it was noticeable, but not dramatic. Curious if this was indicative of UHD in general or just Sicario. I have Ghostbusters and ID4 coming in UHD and will watch those to compare.

The Dolby atmos soundtrack was better than any Dolby format I've heard before. Even tho my audio system doesn't support the new format, it was converted to Dolby HD, I could tell a noticeable diff more like DTS.

[dvdmike]

Amazon have a multi region one in the UK, any one hear of a mod?

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

From what I learned, no OLED model can output HDR content properly, not even the 2016 models.
Even if the 2016 OLEDs meet the minimum certification requirements for HDR they are not in fact displaying HDR properly... And the reason for this is quite simple. The HDR certification requirements have been fudged to allow OLED to be included despite having considerably lower figures than every single other type of technology displays. For example, the HDR certification Ultra HD Premium requires all displays to yield a minimum of 1,000 nits peak brightness... But OLED is currently incapable of delivering more than circa 600 nits, so they 'fudged' the criteria; wherein, as a result, the qualifying criteria dictates that all displays must yield a minimum of 1,000 nits peak brightness, except if the display is OLED, where as long as it delivers at least 540 nits it qualifies and it can join the HDR club. Seriously. How ridiculous is that?! You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that any TV displaying HDR with minimum 1,000 nits peak brightness will massively outperform a TV displaying HDR with only 540 nits peak brightness. And just to put into perspective just how ridiculous this is, the 1,000 nits peak brightness qualification figure is an intermediate figure where the target is in fact 4,000 - 10,000 nits; but since no display is currently able to deliver that they settled on 1,000 nits for the time being with the intention of evolving matters towards 4,000 - 10,000 nits in the future. So 540 nits peak brightness is comparatively woefully insufficient. Sorry. And IMO OLEDs wonderful black levels are not enough to balance this gargantuan flaw of epic proportions with respect to existing OLED TVs.

Yet in real viewing world conditions you'll be far more likely to key in on the vastly improved blacks of the OLED over the fleeting difference in brightness of the 1000+ nit displays with higher black floors. HDR content RARELY approaches anywhere near those types of brightness levels and when they do they are for a miniscule amount of the display area with average picture levels being about the same as they are today with non-HDR displays. But the black floor is a benefit regardless of whether it is SDR or HDR and will make a far more striking benefit to the image regardless of content.

This all comes down to understanding picture science and not keying in on numbers which marketing just LOVES to use, especially when they can show higher numbers for one device over another.

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

Yet in real viewing world conditions you'll be far more likely to key in on the vastly improved blacks of the OLED over the fleeting difference in brightness of the 1000+ nit displays with higher black floors. HDR content RARELY approaches anywhere near those types of brightness levels and when they do they are for a miniscule amount of the display area with average picture levels being about the same as they are today with non-HDR displays. But the black floor is a benefit regardless of whether it is SDR or HDR and will make a far more striking benefit to the image regardless of content.

This all comes down to understanding picture science and not keying in on numbers which marketing just LOVES to use, especially when they can show higher numbers for one device over another.

If the above statement was the case, then we could all settle for a Full HD 1080 OLED display with no UHD capabilities at all...After all, in real-life viewing it's the perfect blacks and contrast that make the difference, not the 1000+ nit displays

[puddy77]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

From what I learned, no OLED model can output HDR content properly, not even the 2016 models.
Even if the 2016 OLEDs meet the minimum certification requirements for HDR they are not in fact displaying HDR properly... And the reason for this is quite simple. The HDR certification requirements have been fudged to allow OLED to be included despite having considerably lower figures than every single other type of technology displays. For example, the HDR certification Ultra HD Premium requires all displays to yield a minimum of 1,000 nits peak brightness... But OLED is currently incapable of delivering more than circa 600 nits, so they 'fudged' the criteria; wherein, as a result, the qualifying criteria dictates that all displays must yield a minimum of 1,000 nits peak brightness, except if the display is OLED, where as long as it delivers at least 540 nits it qualifies and it can join the HDR club. Seriously. How ridiculous is that?! You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that any TV displaying HDR with minimum 1,000 nits peak brightness will massively outperform a TV displaying HDR with only 540 nits peak brightness. And just to put into perspective just how ridiculous this is, the 1,000 nits peak brightness qualification figure is an intermediate figure where the target is in fact 4,000 - 10,000 nits; but since no display is currently able to deliver that they settled on 1,000 nits for the time being with the intention of evolving matters towards 4,000 - 10,000 nits in the future. So 540 nits peak brightness is comparatively woefully insufficient. Sorry. And IMO OLEDs wonderful black levels are not enough to balance this gargantuan flaw of epic proportions with respect to existing OLED TVs.

RockyIII, I think you are placing too much emphasis on the top end of the brightness requirement and not enough on the low end. Technically, the ostensibly lower oled requirements of .0005 to 540 nits creates a higher dynamic range than the lcd specs of .05 to 1000. While lcd can get 1 stop brighter than the current brightest oled, the oled can get 7 stops dimmer. In my opinion, the HDR certification requirements have been fudged to allow lcd to be included despite having a considerably lower contrast ratio than oled. When lcds eventually do reach those 4000-10000 nit peaks, they will then have near equivalent dynamic range to current oleds. But by that time, oleds might be brighter too, or we might have qleds which could be the best of both.

[alebonau]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

Amazon have a multi region one in the UK, any one hear of a mod?

@dvdmike I thought I had posted before but I got my sammy region freed by our local guy,
http://www.gattiweb.com/bluraymod.html

so must be available. it works a treat too.... hold down the A button on the sammy remote while in stand by and it will boot up region A. hold down the B button on the remote and it boots up as region B. so very easy to use. ofcourse the player is region free for dvd

[alebonau]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

If the above statement was the case, then we could all settle for a Full HD 1080 OLED display with no UHD capabilities at all...After all, in real-life viewing it's the perfect blacks and contrast that make the difference, not the 1000+ nit displays

or the lg oleds.... they just gave them firmware updates for HDR capability didnt them ?

its high dynamic "range"... if you start up with inky blacks... you dont have to go to blinding retina burning high levels to end up with high dynamic range.

lcds cant do blacks hence why they go to blinding levels to claim high dynamic range.

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by puddy77

RockyIII, I think you are placing too much emphasis on the top end of the brightness requirement and not enough on the low end. Technically, the ostensibly lower oled requirements of .0005 to 540 nits creates a higher dynamic range than the lcd specs of .05 to 1000. While lcd can get 1 stop brighter than the current brightest oled, the oled can get 7 stops dimmer. In my opinion, the HDR certification requirements have been fudged to allow lcd to be included despite having a considerably lower contrast ratio than oled. When lcds eventually do reach those 4000-10000 nit peaks, they will then have near equivalent dynamic range to current oleds. But by that time, oleds might be brighter too, or we might have uleds which could be the best of both.

So the bottom line is that a fully HDR compliant 2016 LED (1000 nits) will still fall shorter than a 2016 HDR OLED at just 500+ nits?

[seekingaud]

Good Blu-Ray player.

[puddy77]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

So the bottom line is that a fully HDR compliant 2016 LED (1000 nits) will still fall shorter than a 2016 HDR OLED at just 500+ nits?

Yes. As of right now, oled provides a higher dynamic range than lcd.

Here is a graph from LG marketing that may help explain:
from this Facebook post.

And just FYI, one of the professional monitors that a lot of studios use for hdr grades is an oled; the 1000 nit Sony X300.

[xxBachelor1981xx]

I have a question maybe someone can answer in regards to this player. I am getting the Sony 930D 4K HDR TV tomorrow. If I was to hook up the Samsung UBD-K8500 to my Sony Soundbar CT-780 That has HDCP 2.2 Pass Through and connect one HDMI from the samsung player to the TV and then the Other HDMI from the samsung player into my sound bar can I get HD Audio through the Soundbar plus also get HDR Video through the TV with 4K Discs? Reason why I am asking is because from What I heard you can only get HDR if you plug the player directly into the TV that no Sound Bar has HDR Pass through So I take It I cant Hook it up using one HDMI Straight to my sound bar.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by xxBachelor1981xx

I have a question maybe someone can answer in regards to this player. I am getting the Sony 930D 4K HDR TV tomorrow. If I was to hook up the Samsung UBD-K8500 to my Sony Soundbar CT-780 That has HDCP 2.2 Pass Through and connect one HDMI from the samsung player to the TV and then the Other HDMI from the samsung player into my sound bar can I get HD Audio through the Soundbar plus also get HDR Video through the TV with 4K Discs? Reason why I am asking is because from What I heard you can only get HDR if you plug the player directly into the TV that no Sound Bar has HDR Pass through So I take It I cant Hook it up using one HDMI Straight to my sound bar.

HDMI port 1 to the TV (turn on Enhanced HDMI on the TV), HDMI port 2 to the soundbar (turn ON audio bitstream in the player settings).

Being that it's a soundbar and not even surround, you're not going to get the most out of these Lossless multi-channel or new immersive soundtracks.

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

So the bottom line is that a fully HDR compliant 2016 LED (1000 nits) will still fall shorter than a 2016 HDR OLED at just 500+ nits?

Well lets introduce some simple math into the equation to show whether or not this is the case. HDR stands for HIGH DYNAMIC RANGE. Dynamic Range relates to the difference between the highest and lowest point a display can display. This can be expressed as a ratio by taking the highest point and dividing it by the lowest point. This is also known as on/off contrast ratio. So:

OLED: 1,080,000:1 (540/.0005)
LCD: 20,000:1 (1000/.05)

As you can see, OLED has SUBSTANTIALLY more dynamic range than the specs for LCD based display with 1,000 nits. The overall CR of a LCD is actually pretty sad and would result in blacks that look more gray than black. With low APL imagery the difference between the two would look massive. But most LCD displays have zoned backlighting that helps with this. When we move to Dolby Vision content it actually has frame by frame metadata for controlling zoned backlighting and dynamic contrast systems that should help even more.

[xxBachelor1981xx]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

HDMI port 1 to the TV (turn on Enhanced HDMI on the TV), HDMI port 2 to the soundbar (turn ON audio bitstream in the player settings).

Being that it's a soundbar and not even surround, you're not going to get the most out of these Lossless multi-channel or new immersive soundtracks.

Thanks I live in an apartment so I have to deal with the sound bar its better then TV speakers atleast at the moment. I just didn't want to have to deal with TV speakers to get HDR.

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

Well lets introduce some simple math into the equation to show whether or not this is the case. HDR stands for HIGH DYNAMIC RANGE. Dynamic Range relates to the difference between the highest and lowest point a display can display. This can be expressed as a ratio by taking the highest point and dividing it by the lowest point. This is also known as on/off contrast ratio. So:

OLED: 1,080,000:1 (540/.0005)
LCD: 20,000:1 (1000/.05)

As you can see, OLED has SUBSTANTIALLY more dynamic range than the specs for LCD based display with 1,000 nits. The overall CR of a LCD is actually pretty sad and would result in blacks that look more gray than black. With low APL imagery the difference between the two would look massive. But most LCD displays have zoned backlighting that helps with this. When we move to Dolby Vision content it actually has frame by frame metadata for controlling zoned backlighting and dynamic contrast systems that should help even more.

Very insightful...Dropping some serious knowledge on us!

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by xxBachelor1981xx

Thanks I live in an apartment so I have to deal with the sound bar its better then TV speakers atleast at the moment. I just didn't want to have to deal with TV speakers to get HDR.

I remember my days with a soundbar...Good times

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by alebonau

@dvdmike I thought I had posted before but I got my sammy region freed by our local guy,
http://www.gattiweb.com/bluraymod.html

so must be available. it works a treat too.... hold down the A button on the sammy remote while in stand by and it will boot up region A. hold down the B button on the remote and it boots up as region B. so very easy to use. ofcourse the player is region free for dvd

Great thanks, this became more interesting