Unforgiven 4K UHD (1992)

[bruceames]

Just curious, so how much do you have to spend on an OLED to not have to go into the service menu to watch a certain disc correctly?

[Noremac Mij]

Originally Posted by bruceames

Just curious, so how much do you have to spend on an OLED to not have to go into the service menu to watch a certain disc correctly?

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by bruceames

Just curious, so how much do you have to spend on an OLED to not have to go into the service menu to watch a certain disc correctly?

[Scottishguy]

Originally Posted by bruceames

Just curious, so how much do you have to spend on an OLED to not have to go into the service menu to watch a certain disc correctly?

Lol

How many feet below sea level do you need to be for Plasma TV to work?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

Geoff, I'm curious: of all the different tellies you've owned in your time - CRTs, plasmas and LCDs - which one would you say is/was your second favorite? Assuming the ZD9 is your #1, that is.

Darn tootin' the Zed is at the top. I honestly don't know which would be second, I did like that plasma but the IR was so prevalent it was always there niggling at me, I could also see an effect like DLP 'rainbows' if I moved my eyes. Got a lot of love for the first 4K TV I bought, the Sony 55X9005A. It had its own drawbacks of course, every TV does, but it was the first time that the blacks really wowed me on an LCD, the passive 3D was magnificent - though rather crudely done on the 55" model, for which I got £200 back from Sony after I complained - and the sound was incroyable. (I know the latter part means **** all to every one of you but I'd kill to have those dumbo ears speakers back again, I tried a Sony soundbar recently - not a cheapie model at all, the HT-X8500 - and it was bloody awful, it didn't compare to those speakers. Got my money back on eBay though, phew.)

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Scottishguy

I don't think I've ever seen a Plasma TV in my life. I'm surprised anyone bought one, judging by your similar experiences.

Nitroglycerin sounds less volatile.

In a dark room, a good plasma could have a very natural, appealing, higher contrast look to it and excellent motion. It really did give the best image for a period of time.

[jh901]

Originally Posted by Scottishguy

How many feet below sea level do you need to be for Plasma TV to work?

The most legendary panel displays of the HD era were plasma. You do get that, right? Absolutely, no display tech is without shortcomings. None. Ever. So far.

The sad thing is that these panel display tech pillow fights come around over and over in HOME THEATER enthusiast forums. THEATER!!!!

If you aren't on the path, no matter how many years out that may be, to making the leap into front projection, then you are going the wrong way. You aren't learning what you'll need to know. You aren't considering numerous factors. You aren't planning ahead. Your HOPE is that reference quality 90" panels for pocket change are coming. They aren't. (I've been there)

[Scottishguy]

Originally Posted by jh901

The most legendary panel displays of the HD era were plasma. You do get that, right? Absolutely, no display tech is without shortcomings. None. Ever. So far.

The sad thing is that these panel display tech pillow fights come around over and over in HOME THEATER enthusiast forums. THEATER!!!!

If you aren't on the path, no matter how many years out that may be, to making the leap into front projection, then you are going the wrong way. You aren't learning what you'll need to know. You aren't considering numerous factors. You aren't planning ahead. Your HOPE is that reference quality 90" panels for pocket change are coming. They aren't. (I've been there)

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Darn tootin' the Zed is at the top. I honestly don't know which would be second, I did like that plasma but the IR was so prevalent it was always there niggling at me, I could also see an effect like DLP 'rainbows' if I moved my eyes. Got a lot of love for the first 4K TV I bought, the Sony 55X9005A. It had its own drawbacks of course, every TV does, but it was the first time that the blacks really wowed me on an LCD, the passive 3D was magnificent - though rather crudely done on the 55" model, for which I got £200 back from Sony after I complained - and the sound was incroyable. (I know the latter part means **** all to every one of you but I'd kill to have those dumbo ears speakers back again, I tried a Sony soundbar recently - not a cheapie model at all, the HT-X8500 - and it was bloody awful, it didn't compare to those speakers. Got my money back on eBay though, phew.)

Heh, funny thing is I've actually started to come around to that kind of thinking. As I've mentioned before, my ears have started to take some damage from all the loud sound I've subjected them to (made that classic mistake stereo and home theater enthusiasts have been making for decades of turning the volume up beyond what's necessary, just for that "oomph", a few more times than I should have...).

Now, I've started to see the value of decent built-in sound. I don't need sound to be super powerful, coming from multiple directions and rattling my windows all of the time, but it'd still be nice to have quality, you know? I don't think we should have to choose between two extremes, either shrill and tinny-sounding TV speakers or a full-on AVR/speaker setup.

I'm digging what I'm seeing Sony, Panasonic and Philips do with the built-in sound on their premium TVs. But the problem is, now all that focus is on the OLEDs, and we've discussed the particular shortcomings of that tech and how it may not be right for all of us in this very thread. It'd be nice to see similar effort on the LCDs, like your old X9005A.

As for soundbars, just a mere suggestion, but have you looked into the Canton Smart Soundbar 9 and 10? Not that I have personal experience, but I've done some research and seen people speak highly of those two models, with some saying that they're among few soundbars that actually sound decent without a subwoofer. One German fella described one of them as the only soundbar he'd heard that "didn't sound like a phone" without a sub. They're a bit more 'spensive, though.

[bruceames]

Yes the moving pixels on the plasma were a distraction if I tried to watch within a 2:1 distance/screen size ratio. Was happy otherwise, but when getting a 4K (900A) it was amazing to be able to get as close as I wanted and see a smooth image and I started watching content closer to the display.

[Noremac Mij]

Sennheiser makes a good soundbar.

[Colson]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

In a dark room, a good plasma could have a very natural, appealing, higher contrast look to it and excellent motion. It really did give the best image for a period of time.

In particular, 24fps content looks amazing on plasmas. Something about them made it much smoother than on LCDs or OLEDs. I love my OLED, but 24fps content was definitely smoother on plasma (and no, I was not using interpolation).

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

Heh, funny thing is I've actually started to come around to that kind of thinking. As I've mentioned before, my ears have started to take some damage from all the loud sound I've subjected them to (made that classic mistake stereo and home theater enthusiasts have been making for decades of turning the volume up beyond what's necessary, just for that "oomph", a few more times than I should have...).

Now, I've started to see the value of decent built-in sound. I don't need sound to be super powerful, coming from multiple directions and rattling my windows all of the time, but it'd still be nice to have quality, you know? I don't think we should have to choose between two extremes, either shrill and tinny-sounding TV speakers or a full-on AVR/speaker setup.

I'm digging what I'm seeing Sony, Panasonic and Philips do with the built-in sound on their premium TVs. But the problem is, now all that focus is on the OLEDs, and we've discussed the particular shortcomings of that tech and how it may not be right for all of us in this very thread. It'd be nice to see similar effort on the LCDs, like your old X9005A.

As for soundbars, just a mere suggestion, but have you looked into the Canton Smart Soundbar 9 and 10? Not that I have personal experience, but I've done some research and seen people speak highly of those two models, with some saying that they're among few soundbars that actually sound decent without a subwoofer. One German fella described one of them as the only soundbar he'd heard that "didn't sound like a phone" without a sub. They're a bit more 'spensive, though.

Same here, my hearing's done after 20 solid years of home theatre abuse. It's not even the bass that I'm after (though the bass was genuinely impressive on the X9005A) but these higher end Sony TVs do a superb faux-surround effect, even the ZD9 throws a surprisingly effective sound field out for which I thought a decently-priced Sony soundbar would at least be a match for. Nope, this supposed 'Atmos' soundbar sounded more like two bees fighting inside a tin can, only with horribly fat, bloaty bass. Blech. I'm still keeping an eye out for something good, will look into the Cantons (not sure if they're available in the UK though?).

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Colson

In particular, 24fps content looks amazing on plasmas. Something about them made it much smoother than on LCDs or OLEDs. I love my OLED, but 24fps content was definitely smoother on plasma (and no, I was not using interpolation).

Yes. My JVC has similar motion to LCD and the rare times I watch a movie on my F5300 plasma, the smoother 24fps is evident.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Same here, my hearing's done after 20 solid years of home theatre abuse. It's not even the bass that I'm after (though the bass was genuinely impressive on the X9005A) but these higher end Sony TVs do a superb faux-surround effect, even the ZD9 throws a surprisingly effective sound field out for which I thought a decently-priced Sony soundbar would at least be a match for. Nope, this supposed 'Atmos' soundbar sounded more like two bees fighting inside a tin can, only with horribly fat, bloaty bass. Blech. I'm still keeping an eye out for something good, will look into the Cantons (not sure if they're available in the UK though?).

I've started listening at lower volume levels, and it's noticeably easier on my ears, but even then I can feel the pressure in my left ear (the one that's the most affected) from time to time.

I've heard of that virtual surround effect Sony do, been kind of curious about it.

The Cantons are available in the UK, same as here in Swedenland. I think Canton have a presence all over Europe.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Colson

In particular, 24fps content looks amazing on plasmas. Something about them made it much smoother than on LCDs or OLEDs. I love my OLED, but 24fps content was definitely smoother on plasma (and no, I was not using interpolation).

You should have, I still look back wistfully at the 48Hz and 72Hz modes on my old Pioneer plasma. Great for laserdisc. But, that said, now that decent LCDs refresh at 120Hz rather than 60Hz then 24p fits into that rate perfectly x5 whereas 3:2 pulldown was always 60Hz's nemesis. Not saying it still compares to the cleanliness of plasma - though black frame insertion can provide a similar effect - but it's pleasing enough to my eye, though I could do with a faster black response on the panel itself as the 65" ZD9 can be rather sluggish when starting from cold.

Originally Posted by bruceames

Yes the moving pixels on the plasma were a distraction if I tried to watch within a 2:1 distance/screen size ratio. Was happy otherwise, but when getting a 4K (900A) it was amazing to be able to get as close as I wanted and see a smooth image and I started watching content closer to the display.

Same here, I could literally see the dithering and, as I mentioned above, I could also see the panel 'refreshing' if I moved my eyes to follow any action (plasma being tech that 'draws' each frame separately rather than LCD's sample and hold) which was particularly distracting with black and white content as I'd see these flashes of purple and green out of the corner of my eye.

[Scottishguy]

Here's my Bose 500. Yes I direct the speaker towards the back wall. It amplifies the bass, and fills my living room with sound better.

[Colson]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

You should have, I still look back wistfully at the 48Hz and 72Hz modes on my old Pioneer plasma. Great for laserdisc. But, that said, now that decent LCDs refresh at 120Hz rather than 60Hz then 24p fits into that rate perfectly x5 whereas 3:2 pulldown was always 60Hz's nemesis. Not saying it still compares to the cleanliness of plasma - though black frame insertion can provide a similar effect - but it's pleasing enough to my eye, though I could do with a faster black response on the panel itself as the 65" ZD9 can be rather sluggish when starting from cold.



Same here, I could literally see the dithering and, as I mentioned above, I could also see the panel 'refreshing' if I moved my eyes to follow any action (plasma being tech that 'draws' each frame separately rather than LCD's sample and hold) which was particularly distracting with black and white content as I'd see these flashes of purple and green out of the corner of my eye.

I just mean to say that I wasn't using frame interpolation in the sense of creating new frames, ie. soap opera effect.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Colson

I just mean to say that I wasn't using frame interpolation in the sense of creating new frames, ie. soap opera effect.

I wasn't having a go, just saying that those other modes were aces but you're right, they weren't "interpolated" as such. Though with certain content I do use some Motionflow for non-critical viewing, e.g. if it's shot with a very "video" type look already then there's no "film look" to ruin, so a combo of mild interpolation and BFI works nicely. I used to run in horror from interpolation because of the horrendous motion artefacts and dropped frames (again, because 24 didn't fit into 60 or 100Hz refresh) but when used mildly on a 120Hz panel with suitable content then I'm quite partial to it.

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

I've started listening at lower volume levels, and it's noticeably easier on my ears, but even then I can feel the pressure in my left ear (the one that's the most affected) from time to time.

I've heard of that virtual surround effect Sony do, been kind of curious about it.

The Cantons are available in the UK, same as here in Swedenland. I think Canton have a presence all over Europe.

Yeah, even at higher volumes just from the TV I can feel the 'strain' on my ears and my tinnitus kicks off later on.

[jh901]

I can effortlessly enjoy proper surround with absence of listening fatigue. Anyone can achieve it. Few are willing to accept that there's more to learn. I'm cringing at the mention of tv speakers (wow, seriously!?), soundbars, and Bose.

The recipe for great surround sound isn't hard. Honestly, it isn't.