UltraHD Blurays and players will start coming by Christmas 2015. Still buying blurays

[kidglov3s]

Right now the physical movies on disc market is a sinking ship. Big ole hole in it. Killing DVDs, the most reliable force in that market, is like putting a second, bigger hole in the ship. No way in hell is a business going to make that decision.

My perspective is, people are buying DVDs. That money goes to the same place that the Blu-rays come from, so my interest in Blu-rays benefits from people buying DVDs. Take DVDs away, there's less money in the pot, I don't see how that benefits anyone.

[Infernal King]

Did I miss something or are people here actually saying the government should force it citizens to only buy Blu-rays and/or corporations should be flat-out discontinuing DVDs in favor of BDs and Ultra HD BDs? lol

[Pecker]

Originally Posted by 42041

Wouldn't look any worse than upscaling DVDs to 1080p.

I think there'll be a pretty big difference.

Might be wrong.

Steve W

[Pecker]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I know you like a bit of empirical evidence Steve, so try this on for size. It depends on whether you consider 55" to be large (said the Bishop to the actress) but a well-mastered DVD is solidly watchable on my 4K TV, and as I've mentioned elsewhere even non-anamorphic stuff is bearable. Bear in mind that once the SD to 1080p conversion takes place inside my BD player, the 4K upscaling is then directly proportional from 1080p up to 2160p so the scaling at that stage is as mathematically precise as such guesswork is ever going to be (which is also why BD to 4K looks so seamless). The quality of a DVD upscale into 4K is more reliant on that initial SD to HD step than anything IMO, as well as turning off all them gash picture enhancement algorithms that reside inside many TVs today. I dread to mention the "c" word but that helps too...

BTW I can't see the pixel structure on my TV (which has 8 million of the little bastards) unless I literally put my eye to the screen, unlike a 1080p set where I can see them from a good few feet away, so even with all those other pixels being guesses it'd take one eagle-eyed mother****er to pick which one is the real deal from a proper viewing distance.

Cheers.

What's your seating distance?

Steve W

[Geoff D]

7ft away.

[42041]

Originally Posted by Pecker

I think there'll be a pretty big difference.

Might be wrong.

Steve W

Only if the screen is correspondingly larger. You could scale an mage 2x, 4x, 8x, and so on, and it'll look pretty much exactly the same (in fact it will look more similar the higher you go, since there's a more awkward mapping of actual pixels to interpolated pixels for close scale factors) for a given size, since you're dealing with a fixed amount of actual information.

[Bassaholic]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

[Show spoiler]The more that I think about it, here's how I see it...

It's all about increased convenience.

The reason why CDs overtook cassette tapes in the music world was not simply because CDs sound so much better. The real reason was that CDs offered instant random access to songs, so that listeners did not have to rewind or fast-forward to their favorite songs.

In turn, the reason why DVDs overtook videocassettes was not simply because DVDs look so much better. The real reason was that DVDs offered ready access to any part of a movie without having to rewind or fast-forward. No more "Be Kind, Rewind" with movie rentals. No more VHS rental tapes where the Phoebe Cates pool scene in Fast Times at Ridgemont High was ruined due to so many renters pausing the tape and running it in slow-motion during that scene. No more waiting around for a VHS tape to rewind. ...and so on.

The real reason for format upgrade success is due to convenience. Not improved sound. Not improved resolution. Just convenience.

What conveniences does Blu-ray have to offer over DVD?
What can viewers do with a Blu-ray that they couldn't do with a DVD?

Well...

Nothing. Nothing at all.

In fact, Blu-rays are less convenient than DVDs, simply because we have to wait a few seconds for a Blu-ray to boot up after inserting it in the Blu-ray player.

SACDs have not taken hold with the masses, because they offer no added convenience over CDs. In turn, Blu-rays are still outsold by DVDs simply because they offer no added convenience over DVDs.

Blu-rays, in themselves, are already niche-market items for movie enthusiasts.

Ultra HD Blu-rays, in all likelihood, are going to be advanced-level niche-market items.

Ultra HD Blu-rays may look noticeably better than Blu-rays, but they will offer no tangible conveniences over Blu-rays or even over DVDs. In fact, Ultra HD Blu-rays might end up being a colossal pain in the neck in the beginning, with slower boot-up times and/or dependability on internet access.

No tangible conveniences = no sale with the masses.

Streaming, by contrast, offers a tangible convenience over Ultra HD Blu-rays, over Blu-rays, and over DVDs, simply because people can purchase a digital download without having to go to a store, without having to go to their mailbox, and without even having to put their pants on.

Companies and forum enthusiasts can go on and on about 4K restorations, movies in their native resolution, increased color variety, and so on, but many people are not going to bite down on the hook unless a format comes along that actually allows them to step into the screen and kiss Black Widow while they're watching The Avengers.



While I was taking my lunch break at a Target store here in a semi-suburban/semi-rural average size city here in Georgia, I ambled over to the media section and saw that the vast majority of movies in the two movie aisles were DVD editions. Even the newer releases (Skin Trade, The Big Game, etc.) were only available on DVD at the store. There were Blu-rays for the Marvel films, for Insurgence, and for Ex-Machina, but that was pretty much it.

I'm hard-pressed to imagine DVDs being phased out of existence any time soon, and I'm definitely hard-pressed to imagine players with DVD capability being phased out of the market any time soon.

I'm also hard-pressed to imagine Ultra HD Blu-ray taking over its predecessors any time soon.

spot on...nothing more to add

[Pecker]

I was in Curry's today comparing two 55" LG OLED sets - one was 1080p, the other 4K.

They were both playing the same 4K footage (downscaled for the 1080P set). I placed myself around 2.0 to 2.5m away, which is roughly my seating distance at home - around 3 x screen heights. The footage was clearly demo material designed to show off all the different aspects of the TVs at their best.

The only difference I saw was in sharpness/detail/pixel & line visibility, and that was only very slight. When I took a step or two back from the 1080p set it disappeared. When I took a step or two in to the 4K set it became more evident. It was only noticeable on the diagonal lines of very bright objects against very black backgrounds/sky.

But the 4K set is £3,500, whilst the 1080p set was £1,700. Definitely not worth that much extra, for me.

This is not VHS to LaserDisc difference, or LD to DVD, or DVD to Blu-ray. It's nothing like that. I'd say it's roughly the same jump as 720p to 1080p, and then only at around 3 x screen heights or closer, though I appreciate everyone's eyes are different.

And from what I could see, if you sit back far enough from the 1080p set that you can't see any pixels & line structure at all, there was absolutely zero difference in viewing.

I will note that the 4K set was not HDR, but I've never seen a 35mm cinema projection with contrast anything like the OLED.

BTW, I do know that the demo material was on USB sticks. The 1080p stuff was 35Mbps, so that's equivalent to a very high Blu-ray Disc bitrate. I didn't get chance to check the 4K bitrate, but it was presumably very high, too.

The clips didn't come close to filling the USB drives, and their intent is to look astonishing, so I'd expect the 4K one would be as high as UHD will be.

This was, to all intents and purposes, the equivalent of an excellent Blu-ray Disc on a 1080p set vs an excellent UHD disc on a 4K set, HDR aside.

It'd have been very interesting to see how the 1080P material looked on the 4K set, but I didn't get a chance for that.

Steve W

[42041]

My hope is that 4K tvs can do simple 2x scaling of 1080p content so it looks exactly correct, rather than force some interpolation filter that softens the image.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by 42041

My hope is that 4K tvs can do simple 2x scaling of 1080p content so it looks exactly correct, rather than force some interpolation filter that softens the image.

That's what Sony 4K sets do which is why I use an outboard 4K scaler. (It's not 2x but 4x though in terms of pixels when uprezzing 2K to 4K.)

[KillaCam]

I purchased a 55inch Samsung UHD TV about 3 weeks ago. I have watched a lot of movies on it since and I definitely can tell a difference in the picture quality. It just looks more clear and detailed to me. Maybe it's in my head I don't know. I have the ghostbusters 4k remaster and played it but didn't notice much difference from my other movies. Overall though I am satisfied with my purchase.

[42041]

Originally Posted by KillaCam

I purchased a 55inch Samsung UHD TV about 3 weeks ago. I have watched a lot of movies on it since and I definitely can tell a difference in the picture quality. It just looks more clear and detailed to me. Maybe it's in my head I don't know. I have the ghostbusters 4k remaster and played it but didn't notice much difference from my other movies. Overall though I am satisfied with my purchase.

The Ghostbusters mastered in 4K blu-ray? It's still a regular 1080p blu-ray, made from a 4K source.

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by KillaCam

I purchased a 55inch Samsung UHD TV about 3 weeks ago. I have watched a lot of movies on it since and I definitely can tell a difference in the picture quality. It just looks more clear and detailed to me. Maybe it's in my head I don't know. I have the ghostbusters 4k remaster and played it but didn't notice much difference from my other movies. Overall though I am satisfied with my purchase.

The Ghostbusters 4K remaster is still a downsampled 2K Blu-ray.

[KillaCam]

Yea that's the one. I wasn't too clear on the difference between that and other bluray a so thanks

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by KillaCam

Yea that's the one. I wasn't too clear on the difference between that and other bluray a so thanks

They're are actually three different transfers on BD:

1) The original release with the older 2K master with contrast boosting, but with extras.
2) The Mastered in 4K release with the highest bitrate using the new 4K master, but lacks any extras.
3) The most recent release uses the 4K master from the second release, but with a lower bitrate to make room for the extras.

The second release with the yellow banner has the best PQ as you can see here: http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleich...hd_multiID=244

[Geoff D]

I couldn't tell the two Mi4K releases apart in motion. Both are excellent.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

Example:
I've wanted to see Aloha ever since it was coming soon to theaters because I love Hawaii and I'm a fan of the people involved.

I was thinking of blind buying it this week on Blu-ray, despite the negative reviews about the film itself.

Supposedly, the special features are above average and the picture quality is outstanding.

However, I took it upon myself to find out what the film was mastered in. Sure enough, it's 4K. This is a film that relies a lot on its Hawaiian visuals, and I'd like to wait for a proper UHD Blu-ray to help sell those visuals to me.

It's getting so close to the UHD Blu-ray launch. Hopefully the wait is worth it.

Assuming you have money. Like most products, at launch both hardware and UHD discs are going to be very expensive. I have no hard facts, but I think you'll see $800 players (and up) and discs that list for $50-$60. Prices will fall quickly, especially after the first year, but don't expect to buy in at Blu-ray price levels. And I also think that the title catalog will be relatively small at launch and for a good time thereafter.

This is simply not going to be a priority for the studios. Blu-ray is only 21% of the (U.S.) physical media market, which is also in decline, and UHD is going to be a tiny fraction of that. It's simply not enough for studio execs to care much about because it's not large enough to provide any shareholder value. It's going to be very niche. They'll probably be hype in year 2 about how sales have doubled, but it's going to be a very small base.

And while there are still plenty of consumers who don't understand the difference between DVD and Blu-ray, imagine the confusion over Blu-ray discs mastered at 4K and true UHD. Consumers are never going to get this and when you have confusion, you have deferral of purchases. We're going to hear plenty of "oh, it's the same thing", especially since there are plenty of pros who feel that most consumers won't be able to perceive the difference between 1080p and UHD unless they sit 2 feet from their screens.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Assuming you have money. Like most products, at launch both hardware and UHD discs are going to be very expensive. I have no hard facts, but I think you'll see $800 players (and up) and discs that list for $50-$60. Prices will fall quickly, especially after the first year, but don't expect to buy in at Blu-ray price levels. And I also think that the title catalog will be relatively small at launch and for a good time thereafter.

I realize we are guessing, but at the start I am expecting about a $10 premium on UHD BD discs compared to the BD version. Players around $500-700.

[42041]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

I realize we are guessing, but at the start I am expecting about a $10 premium on UHD BD discs compared to the BD version

I hope not. If true, this format might as well be dead already.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by 42041

I hope not. If true, this format might as well be dead already.

I suspect both HD DVD and Blu companies were in essence subsidizing some of the R&D costs because of the format war. Not sure this is going to happen this go-around.