Scream Factory Blu-ray Discussion Thread

[SonnybytheSea]

Originally Posted by Zygmunt22

Regarding the Australian DVD of The Keep, I wonder if the Australian territory rights are such that there's really nothing Paramount/Mann can do to prevent a release, but, at the same time, they aren't obligated to cooperate with it (hence, the lack of an HD master).

It could be similar to what happened with the Japanese label IVC, which released several classic RKO films on Blu-Ray in Japan because the Japanese distribution rights for those titles had been sold off before Warners ever acquired the library. But Warners was under no obligation to cooperate with IVC, so the Blu-Rays were sourced from prints instead of the better elements held by WB.

I'm so confused about Michael Mann's The Keep, I'd read that he would only allow the original cut of film to be released, which would require restoring and adding special effects etc. That Paramount was willing to do this but that the original negatives went missing so nothing could be done and Mann walked away from it.

But you can clearly find the cut footage and TV-version online and on Youtube, so that means the negatives are out there! Was Paramount using excuses because they didn't want to put money into a restoration (like Blade Runner)? I've also heard they have music rights problems with Tangerine Dream....

I'm hoping with the success of Blade Runner, The Outsiders, Nightbreed, Exorcist 3 and Cotton Club, that someone will reconsider and restore the Keep!!!!

[SpaceBlackKnight]

The Keep is with Paramount worldwide and the Via Vision Australian DVD is presumably licensed from them since they have the deal with Paramount for other BD titles.

I recall hearing the reason Kino dropped The Keep was because of Michael Mann wanting to find the cut footage from the 210 min original cut and recut the whole thing to his liking. Paramount's archives probably couldn't find film elements for the cut footage and KL was only left with the option of scanning the theatrical cut, which Mann disowns and wouldn't allow thanks to recent DGA rules (which require the productions director or DOP to oversee and approve transfers).

More info on Mann's original cut according to Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Keep_(film):

"Michael Mann's original cut of the movie was 210 minutes long. He was only allowed to have a two-hour-long movie. Test screenings of the two-hour cut were not positive so Paramount cut the movie down to 96 minutes, against Mann's wishes. These last-minute cuts resulted in many plot holes, continuity mistakes, very obvious "jumps" in soundtrack and scenes, and bad editing issues. Even the sound mixing of the movie could not be finished properly because of Paramount's interference which is why every version of the movie suffers from bad sound design. The original June 3 1983 release date was pushed back to December 16 due to the many problems in post-production.

The original happier ending, which had Eva finding Glaeken inside the keep after he defeated Molasar and Eva and her father leaving Romania by boat with Glaeken, was completely cut out by Paramount in order for the movie to have a shorter running time. Removal of these scenes made no sense because numerous stills of this ending were shown in many movie magazines when a movie was to be released and even cast and crew members, including Mann, said in interviews that the movie had a happy ending. Part of the "happy" ending, in which Eva goes into the keep and finds Glaeken, was used in 1980s TV versions of the film. Other deleted scenes include more backstory between Glaeken and Molasar, actual explanation for why Eva and Glaeken fall in love, Glaeken killing the captain of the boat (the one who brings him into Romania) who tries to steal his "weapon" which he uses in the end to kill Molasar, more scenes between villagers and with Father Mihail and Alexandru, and Alexandru being killed by his sons when the keep starts to corrupt the village.[5]

Theatrical and TV trailers for the movie were edited by using the footage from one of the earlier, pre-release cuts of the film which is why there are some alternate and deleted scenes included in them: a longer conversation between Woermann and Alexandru in which Woermann says that the keep looks like it was built to keep something in; a longer version of the scene where Molasar is talking with professor Cuza for the first time (also in this scene Cuza asks Molasar "What are you?" one more time); Glaeken talking with Eva asking her if she found what she was looking for and if she expected to find him; Glaeken touching Eva's face while she asks "What's happening to me?"; Glaeken walking inside the keep with his eyes turning white; longer version of the ending where Glaeken is standing at the entrance of the keep looking over Molasar's fog/white smoke; different version of the scene (different visual effects) where Glaeken is walking towards the room where Molasar is waiting for him (in this alternate scene Glaeken's sword is covered with some glowing grey light).

Contrary to some rumors, there actually was going to be a scene near the ending showing Molasar killing all the German soldiers inside the keep. Much of the effects for this scene including shots of soldiers heads exploding were filmed but this scene, which would include a lot more complicated effects, couldn't be finished after Veever's death."

Paramount only has a dated 4:3 pan and scam analog transfer (obviously created way prior to DGA rule changes) that went around on streaming services, upscaled to HD nonetheless. Unless Paramount's international division somehow made a new transfer outside of the US (which isn't subject to DGA rules) or dug up a 2.35 letterboxed version of the analog transfer, I highly suspect the Via Vision DVD is not 2.35 as it says (like their BD of April Fools Day) and is the same ol cropped shite.

I doubt Mann had a change of heart and decided to let Shout do a new transfer of the theatrical cut ether, since KL didn't have any luck when they had it.

[SpaceBlackKnight]

Originally Posted by SonnybytheSea

But you can clearly find the cut footage and TV-version online and on Youtube

Not in HD or OAR though, probably the only source Paramount has for the cut footage which is why Mann won't allow just the theatrical and no HD version is seen at all.

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by SpaceBlackKnight

...which Mann disowns and wouldn't allow thanks to recent DGA rules (which require the productions director or DOP to oversee and approve transfers).

The DGA shouldn't be allowed to retroactively change the rules for past releases.

[SpaceBlackKnight]

Originally Posted by rdodolak

The DGA shouldn't be allowed to retroactively change the rules for past releases.

They do for productions made after 1959 as it's assumed the films director or DOP are still living, but can also apply to ones prior to that if they're still around.

[SonnybytheSea]

Originally Posted by SpaceBlackKnight

Not in HD or OAR though, probably the only source Paramount has for the cut footage which is why Mann won't allow just the theatrical and no HD version is seen at all.

I'm just wondering if that footage is still in the vault and Paramount just can't be bothered to go hunting for it, since if that footage was destroyed they'd have a record of that and when it happened. What year was the television version of the film first seen?, that would also provide an indication of where that footage might be, since they clearly went back and added those elements back into the film....

[MassiveMovieBuff]

Originally Posted by NeMo_ET

After the first couple replies came through I thought okay, guess I can take Silver Bullet off my radar. Now a couple on the opposite end. This is why I wish Shout titles were cheaper up here in Canada. Tough to blind buy at such high prices. Always a bit of a gamble.

I HIGHLY recommend Silver Bullet. There's always been criticism of the werewolf effects (which I've never particularly understood since I feel they are very well done and effective) but there is a lot more to the film than just werewolf effects. It's very rare in films, especially horror films, to get such a fantastic chemistry as the three leads in Silver Bullet. Gary Busey, Corey Haim and Megan Follows all shine along with everyone else in the film. It has a nice story, touching moments and the pace flows gracefully. The horror scenes are also very effective especially the nail biting climax. I think it's right up there with An American Werewolf in London (the best werewolf film ever made IMHO) and The Howling (which has FAR worse effects at times than anything in Silver Bullet).

[TripleHBK]

Originally Posted by SpaceBlackKnight

Paramount only has a dated 4:3 pan and scam analog transfer (obviously created way prior to DGA rule changes) that went around on streaming services, upscaled to HD nonetheless. Unless Paramount's international division somehow made a new transfer outside of the US (which isn't subject to DGA rules) or dug up a 2.35 letterboxed version of the analog transfer, I highly suspect the Via Vision DVD is not 2.35 as it says (like their BD of April Fools Day) and is the same ol cropped shite.

I doubt Mann had a change of heart and decided to let Shout do a new transfer of the theatrical cut ether, since KL didn't have any luck when they had it.

This is not true. The commercially released laserdisc transfer from 1993 was in widescreen format. In 2013 an HDTV broadcast of this same master was aired in Australia as well and can be found through various unofficial means as someone capped it and then after some additional work, released it online. My hunch is that the DVD is simply using the same HDTV transfer (which itself was created in the early 90's for the laserdisc release) downscaled. It's also very possible that they are simply using a theatrical print. Spookies, prior the VS releasing the film on Blu Ray, had something similar happen in Canada.

[Mike0284]

Originally Posted by TripleHBK

This is not true. The commercially released laserdisc transfer from 1993 was in widescreen format. In 2013 an HDTV broadcast of this same master was aired in Australia as well and can be found through various unofficial means as someone capped it and then after some additional work, released it online. My hunch is that the DVD is simply using the same HDTV transfer (which itself was created in the early 90's for the laserdisc release) downscaled. It's also very possible that they are simply using a theatrical print. Spookies, prior the VS releasing the film on Blu Ray, had something similar happen in Canada.

This was also on netflix back in 2010 for a period of time.

[SpaceBlackKnight]

Originally Posted by TripleHBK

This is not true. The commercially released laserdisc transfer from 1993 was in widescreen format. In 2013 an HDTV broadcast of this same master was aired in Australia as well and can be found through various unofficial means as someone capped it and then after some additional work, released it online. My hunch is that the DVD is simply using the same HDTV transfer (which itself was created in the early 90's for the laserdisc release) downscaled. It's also very possible that they are simply using a theatrical print. Spookies, prior the VS releasing the film on Blu Ray, had something similar happen in Canada.

Was this HDTV airing an upscale or true HD? Screen caps if possible? I imagine it's probably an upscale as Paramount wasn't mastering it's titles in HD 1080 at least until the early DVD days.

I had no idea later widescreen Laserdisc existed, always assumed the 1984 P&S LD was the only game in town. The recent AU DVD probably uses this LB master, but the master is most likely not HD. Via Vision would've promoted a BD too if it were HD native.

[Trekkie313]

Originally Posted by SpaceBlackKnight

Was this HDTV airing an upscale or true HD? Screen caps if possible? I imagine it's probably an upscale as Paramount wasn't mastering it's titles in HD 1080 at least until the early DVD days.

I had no idea later widescreen Laserdisc existed, always assumed the 1984 P&S LD was the only game in town. The recent AU DVD probably uses this LB master, but the master is most likely not HD. Via Vision would've promoted a BD too if it were HD native.

It's an upscale, the Amazon Prime and Netflix versions were both SD only.

[Hosaka]

Originally Posted by SeanJoyce

...Shout's really cornered the market on the werewolf subgenre:

The Howling
Silver Bullet
Bad Moon
Dog Soldiers (as crummy as it is)
Ginger Snaps

(I suppose the more pedantic could include Trick 'r Treat). The only especially noteworthy ones they don't have are The Wolf Man ('41) and An American Werewolf in London.

Don’t forget Scream Factory’s Teen Wolf and Teen Wolf 2. Great slipcovers to boot!

[SeanJoyce]

All this talk over a $hitty movie that nobody would give the time a day to if it was readily available.

[NeMo_ET]

Originally Posted by SeanJoyce

All this talk over a $hitty movie that nobody would give the time a day to if it was readily available.

I don't usually go down this path as I generally try to avoid arguments but let's give this a go. Overall, the wonderful thing about movie collecting is people get to buy what they enjoy. For example, I'm not ashamed that I enjoy and bought Garbage Pail Kids. Next, like many other movies if this movie was readily available it would likely be bought by the same people who like the movie or want it in their collection regardless of how readily available it is. Maybe it wouldn't fly off the shelves like the most recent Disney release but are we having a popularity contest or talking about movie collecting and enthusiasm?

[formula_nebula]

Originally Posted by SeanJoyce

All this talk over a $hitty movie that nobody would give the time a day to if it was readily available.

[Thomas Veil]

Originally Posted by SeanJoyce

All this talk over a $hitty movie that nobody would give the time a day to if it was readily available.

Well, it's something to do while they wait. Keeps them off the streets.

[Zygmunt22]

In case anyone missed it, Mill Creek has announced a Blu-Ray release for the six Universal Inner Sanctum films, starring Lon Chaney, Jr. I know there's been some curiosity here as to whether or not Scream might tackle these.

[TripleHBK]

Originally Posted by SpaceBlackKnight

Was this HDTV airing an upscale or true HD? Screen caps if possible? I imagine it's probably an upscale as Paramount wasn't mastering it's titles in HD 1080 at least until the early DVD days.

I had no idea later widescreen Laserdisc existed, always assumed the 1984 P&S LD was the only game in town. The recent AU DVD probably uses this LB master, but the master is most likely not HD. Via Vision would've promoted a BD too if it were HD native.

It's a quite dated upscale sadly

[Show spoiler]

[rip63]

Originally Posted by SpaceBlackKnight

I highly suspect the Via Vision DVD is not 2.35 as it says

I'm in Australia and I have the Via Vision DVD of The Keep. It is in fact 2:35, 16X9 enhanced and it is widely thought to be a port of the old laserdisc.

[SpaceBlackKnight]

Originally Posted by TripleHBK

It's a quite dated upscale sadly

[Show spoiler]

The letterbox borders look soft like an upscale or really old 1080i transfer, but grain looks HD. Are your screen grabs from the rip that had some work done and possibly slapped a grain filter on it to give the illusion of HD.