Scream Factory Blu-ray Discussion Thread

[Undeadcow]

Originally Posted by Camp_Crystal_Lake

...They stated on Facebook that a lot of titles ...sold poorly or only ok. They said they will monitor future sales of Slumber Party Massacre, Final Exam, and The Final Terror, as to determine what amount of focus, or if any focus, to put on acquiring future... titles.

It's odd to me that Scream Factory will publically declare their refusal to publish a title because prior titles didn't make "enough" money. I understand profit is part of any business; but find it odd to be so transparent about revenue. Other than Code Red, whose representative/ower publically announces lack of sales, I don't know any other studios that offer the "low sales" argument. Some titles like Vinegar Syndrone, Code Red, Synapse Films, or even Twilight Time are putting out limited releases (~1000 copies, 3000 at most) implying that even lower sales are ok to justify the release. Several other studios, like Scorpion, are releasing "iffy" titles (not mainstream popular) with gusto - Satan's Blade being a recent example. Maybe I'm nieve but I don't buy the "that title won't sell as much or make enough money" argument when that's so many contrary examples. We know most of the time Scream Factory isn't remastering films and just slapping a studio master onto a disc (which keeps costs down in those cases). I'd be curious to see how Scream Factory conducts it's cost-benefit risk analysis when deciding on if to release a title. Did they really take that much of a loss on Ninja III, Psycho II, or Death Valley that similar films are taboo for Scream Factory? It's a shame to think of franchise sequels like Psycho IV sitting in limbo because some bean counters don't think it'd reach profit threshold for release. I've always thought the whole, "if these titles don't sell well then we are abandoning the subgenre" claim was a silly marketing ploy to drum up even more pitty sales.

[jthefrank]

A lot of those lower-tier Scream titles are also being sold for $13-16 bucks, which is probably quite a bit lower than something like Satan's Blade (another LE) will go for. If Q moved 1500 units, at an average of $15, I could see the margins being red on that title. Especially since most of those sales would of been through a 3rd party like Amazon, and unlike Code Red or Twilight Time, Shout does put money into advertising and marketing.

As for Synapse, I recall Don saying something about how the label has never made any real money. Maybe that's why there's so many Impulse titles anymore, to fund his passion projects. Or why several of their recent blu's have been LE Synpase.com exclusives for a premium price.

[Wolfking]

Originally Posted by Undeadcow

It's odd to me that Scream Factory will publically declare their refusal to publish a title because prior titles didn't make "enough" money. I understand profit is part of any business; but find it odd to be so transparent about revenue. Other than Code Red, whose representative/ower publically announces lack of sales, I don't know any other studios that offer the "low sales" argument. Some titles like Vinegar Syndrone, Code Red, Synapse Films, or even Twilight Time are putting out limited releases (~1000 copies, 3000 at most) implying that even lower sales are ok to justify the release. Several other studios, like Scorpion, are releasing "iffy" titles (not mainstream popular) with gusto - Satan's Blade being a recent example. Maybe I'm nieve but I don't buy the "that title won't sell as much or make enough money" argument when that's so many contrary examples. We know most of the time Scream Factory isn't remastering films and just slapping a studio master onto a disc (which keeps costs down in those cases). I'd be curious to see how Scream Factory conducts it's cost-benefit risk analysis when deciding on if to release a title. Did they really take that much of a loss on Ninja III, Psycho II, or Death Valley that similar films are taboo for Scream Factory? It's a shame to think of franchise sequels like Psycho IV sitting in limbo because some bean counters don't think it'd reach profit threshold for release. I've always thought the whole, "if these titles don't sell well then we are abandoning the subgenre" claim was a silly marketing ploy to drum up even more pitty sales.

I kind of agree with you, but still this is service business not the creative business, so if sales were poor they have to stop with those titles, otherwise they would go bankrupt within a year, I think some companies have great ideas, but not well executed, for example Warner Bros DVD on Demand, can be good, along with Twilight Time's Limit releases and Scream Factory's restoration and more Special Features, but each has faults and problems, Warner Bros DOD are poor transfers with hardly any material other than the movie, Twilight Time Limit is the absolute worse when releasing high demanded movies like Christine, Fright Night and others, because they underestimate the costumer response. Scream Factory, I do love them, but these Extras and materials cost money, which means they have to get high sales from these titles in order to make a decent profit.

This is what I would love to see Companies do, Blu-Ray and DVD on Demand, but restored and pack with new material, they would get a demand from a website like Amazon and make the Blu-Rays and DVD according to the demand and never have to worry about making a profit back, and with the restoration and new material on the disc, costumers will be happen, and with some Titles do a limit release on titles you know won't exceed 1000 units, like The Kill (1975), That is what I would love every company to do, but sadly it won't happen, anyway That is my thought and opinion.

[Seymour]

Originally Posted by Undeadcow

[Show spoiler]It's odd to me that Scream Factory will publically declare their refusal to publish a title because prior titles didn't make "enough" money. I understand profit is part of any business; but find it odd to be so transparent about revenue. Other than Code Red, whose representative/ower publically announces lack of sales, I don't know any other studios that offer the "low sales" argument. Some titles like Vinegar Syndrone, Code Red, Synapse Films, or even Twilight Time are putting out limited releases (~1000 copies, 3000 at most) implying that even lower sales are ok to justify the release. Several other studios, like Scorpion, are releasing "iffy" titles (not mainstream popular) with gusto - Satan's Blade being a recent example. Maybe I'm nieve but I don't buy the "that title won't sell as much or make enough money" argument when that's so many contrary examples. We know most of the time Scream Factory isn't remastering films and just slapping a studio master onto a disc (which keeps costs down in those cases). I'd be curious to see how Scream Factory conducts it's cost-benefit risk analysis when deciding on if to release a title. Did they really take that much of a loss on Ninja III, Psycho II, or Death Valley that similar films are taboo for Scream Factory? It's a shame to think of franchise sequels like Psycho IV sitting in limbo because some bean counters don't think it'd reach profit threshold for release. I've always thought the whole, "if these titles don't sell well then we are abandoning the subgenre" claim was a silly marketing ploy to drum up even more pitty sales.

Satan's Blade is limited to 1000 copies, as well.

Also, you're wrong/haven't been paying attention if you think Scorpion is happy with some of their sales numbers.

Who knows? Maybe that's where Shout is headed (LE blu-rays), cause pressing thousands of (unsold) copies of titles like Death Valley probably isn't best for business...

[willo007]

I believe they would sell more copies if they would have their titltes available in stores, Not just online. But then gain, i Dont know if this is a stipulation on the contracts. But imagine if you could pick up Final Exam, Evilspeak, Nosferatu the Vampyre, Sleepaway Camp, Ravenous,The Final Terror,
Southern Comfort, Lake Placid, Ginger Snaps, Without Warning, Motel Hell & Leviathan on day 1 at your local Best Buy, Target or Wal-Mart. They would sell more copies and the additianal sales of impulse buyers!!

So, if they lose money, it is something to consider, because they can make more.

I just saw Best buy is carrying Olive titles like The running Man, The Monster Squad and Cujo in stores. So this is not impossible.

[Catastrophe]

If you asked me, and this is just my thoughts (and I've got no head for business), but if there are titles that sell like they're going out of style, wouldn't those compensate for those that don't make as much? Of course, that being said, there's still the cost acquiring those titles that don't sell as well so if the cost outweighs the profit, then the titles aren't worth it.

I guess that makes sense.

[HorrorBlu]

Originally Posted by willo007

I believe they would sell more copies if they would have their titltes available in stores, Not just online. But then gain, i Dont know if this is a stipulation on the contracts. But imagine if you could pick up Final Exam, Evilspeak, Nosferatu the Vampyre, Sleepaway Camp, Ravenous,The Final Terror,
Southern Comfort, Lake Placid, Ginger Snaps, Without Warning, Motel Hell & Leviathan on day 1 at your local Best Buy, Target or Wal-Mart. They would sell more copies and the additianal sales of impulse buyers!!

So, if they lose money, it is something to consider, because they can make more.

I just saw Best buy is carrying Olive titles like The running Man, The Monster Squad and Cujo in stores. So this is not impossible.

It's not impossible, but it is costly. Probably more than you realize. Especially with niche titles like Without Warning or The Final Terror.

Honestly, I think they're better off the way they are, unless it's something better known like Halloween II or III, Psycho II or III, They Live, etc.

[Z0MBI3]

Originally Posted by jthefrank

They did the same thing with TIMM. Since those titles (and Dark Angel and Ninja III) were all originally Shout titles, that were moved under the Scream umbrella to take advantage of its popularity, they probably just forgot to update some of the designs. You can also see this with Q's spine design, which has the same layout as other Shout titles.

Thanks for the response. Much appreciated. Guess I'll just have a few odd balls in with the Screams then.

[Member-222782]

I think there are more fans of these films in other countries than there are in the US. The Germans, French and the Japanese are huge horror fans - if Shout weren't restricted by region coding they would need to hire additional staff to handle the overseas sales. That's the kind of scenario that these independent labels dream about - selling thousands of copies to fans all over the world. Of course, there are ways to obtain region 1 Blu-rays if you're not in the US or Canada, not to mention people who have multi-region players, which is why I always find the "low sales" statements a little puzzling. I buy tons of European BDs, many of which are region B-locked. Horror, like sex, sells, in BIG numbers. Otherwise, there wouldn't be an explosion of cult titles from many different labels worldwide.

[Ellis Hugh]

Originally Posted by willo007

I believe they would sell more copies if they would have their titltes available in stores, Not just online. But then gain, i Dont know if this is a stipulation on the contracts

I'm curious how that works. I have seen most if not all Scream releases at a local record store chain.

[demonknight]

Originally Posted by Ellis Hugh

I'm curious how that works. I have seen most if not all Scream releases at a local record store chain.

I have too, but they only buy one of each title unless released separately on both formats.

[redrunner97]

Originally Posted by jthefrank

They did the same thing with TIMM. Since those titles (and Dark Angel and Ninja III) were all originally Shout titles, that were moved under the Scream umbrella to take advantage of its popularity, they probably just forgot to update some of the designs. You can also see this with Q's spine design, which has the same layout as other Shout titles.

No, IMM is horror, so I would assume they never intentionally wanted it, or Q, to be on the Shout side. I suspect you are right about the other two though.

But, you are wrong about why the logo's there. It was just a misprint. They do that often, let's not forget the infamous "Colleector's Edition" of Captain America.

[NoirFan]

Originally Posted by redrunner97

let's not forget the infamous "Colleector's Edition" of Captain America.

Captain America was already infamous.

[Undeadcow]

Originally Posted by Seymour

Who knows? Maybe that's where Shout is headed (LE blu-rays), cause pressing thousands of (unsold) copies of titles like Death Valley probably isn't best for business...

Maybe that's part of it I didn't think about; if Scream Factory is just mass pressing titles and being overwelmed with pressing costs for unsold stuff. ...but, despite being uninformed, I wouldn't imagine the pressing cost is the primary expense Shout pays for bringing titles to market. If pressing costs are high then that explains how some limited run titles seem to "make ends meet."

I have seen some of the older item Shout Factory surplus show up at discount vendors (like Half Price Books carring those Elviria DVDs).

[demonknight]

Originally Posted by Undeadcow

Maybe that's part of it I didn't think about; if Scream Factory is just mass pressing titles and being overwelmed with pressing costs for unsold stuff. ...but, despite being uninformed, I wouldn't imagine the pressing cost is the primary expense Shout pays for bringing titles to market. If pressing costs are high then that explains how some limited run titles seem to "make ends meet."

I have seen some of the older item Shout Factory surplus show up at discount vendors (like Half Price Books carring those Elviria DVDs).

Well, if most stores refuse to stock them... This brings the question. Why not do a limited first pressing (1000 for non-CEs, 2000 for CEs) and just have it be MOD.

[Kentai]

Originally Posted by Gamma_Winstead

Man, if a film people have actually heard of, and is considered a classic, can't move copies, what the hell are half the films Scream releases going to do?

That's not to undermine the popularity of NOTLD - it's just that the public domain nature means that it's been a bargain-bin favorite for decades now.

There's certainly a market for a "Definitive" edition of this film, and has been since the Millennium Edition LD of yore. I just wonder how many of those fans who want this on BD haven't already sprung for the Japanese or UK imports? Not everyone imports, of course, but with the market getting smaller and it being as easy as typing in Amazon.something to get an import these days, it's absolutely a factor to consider.

My personal solution? Include NOTLD as a bonus feature... in a DAWN OF THE DEAD BD box set.

Originally Posted by zbinks

If there's a valid copyright on that master, TWC doesn't seem to be taking much action to uphold it.

That's a bingo. You'd spend more money dragging fly-by-night labels like that to court in legal fees than you'd ever get out of them, particularly if they're based outside of the country, so while TWC absolutely could threaten legal action over Forgotten Films and so on using their HD master... well, it just isn't worth it to bother.

For that matter, TWC could always release that NOTLD themselves, royalty free! The fact that they haven't, well... I wouldn't call that a great sign for their expectations.


OT: I'm honestly not sure how I'd feel about Shout Factory doing LE releases, though I see that as the inevitable solution for the home video market, like it or not.

If it's for titles we'd never see otherwise - the sort of obscure, slightly ridiculous stuff that Slasher Video and Code Red are doing, but with the same standards we've seen from the Scream Factory label to this point - I'd be fine dropping $35 or so on a title. I certainly wouldn't prefer that become the norm from a label that's making money from other properties and doesn't need every sale to count quite as hard as the obvious comparisons, but if they've got the goods, I've got the cash. That's only fair, right?

[zbinks]

Originally Posted by willo007

I believe they would sell more copies if they would have their titltes available in stores, Not just online.

Scream Factory has no say so in that matter. No doubt they wish Best Buy and Wal-Mart would carry their titles in their store, but the retailers themselves make the decision whether to carry an item in store or online only, not the distributor.

Originally Posted by Kentai

My personal solution? Include NOTLD as a bonus feature... in a DAWN OF THE DEAD BD box set.

I like your thinking.

[jthefrank]

Originally Posted by redrunner97

No, IMM is horror, so I would assume they never intentionally wanted it, or Q, to be on the Shout side. I suspect you are right about the other two though.

But, you are wrong about why the logo's there. It was just a misprint. They do that often, let's not forget the infamous "Colleector's Edition" of Captain America.

Allegedly

[redrunner97]

I don't want Limited Editions. They scare me. I have a hard time balancing my expensive gobbies as it is now. I just bought Season Passes to Cedar Fair parks, Six Flags, and got my passport to hit up a couple Canadian parks this Summer. I don't have the budget to pay more for Limited Editions.

I have to spread out what I buy, and everything being limited means I can't hold off on this to get that, its one, both, or none. And I'd probably pick none.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by redrunner97

I don't want Limited Editions. They scare me. I have a hard time balancing my expensive gobbies as it is now. I just bought Season Passes to Cedar Fair parks, Six Flags, and got my passport to hit up a couple Canadian parks this Summer. I don't have the budget to pay more for Limited Editions.

I have to spread out what I buy, and everything being limited means I can't hold off on this to get that, its one, both, or none. And I'd probably pick none.

Well there are always extras organs you can sell to help finance the collecting!