Scream Factory Blu-ray Discussion Thread

[zbinks]

Conflicting statements between Jim Wynorski and Scream Factory =

[Bronson13]

Originally Posted by iamnoone

All these reports here of how audiences viewed The Shining on original release as boring, laughable, and not scary are definitely not isolated. Although I liked the film right off, and loved so many of the Kubrickian touches, there's a bunch wrong with the film. Duvall's acting gets a lot of hate, but I think she was fine. Nicholson, on the other hand, especially in the early scenes before he starts going crazy, are some of the worst most lethargic acting I've ever seen by him. Was he even trying? Looks like he didn't want to be there. The kid was also very unconvincing. But there's so much good in the film, that I forgave a lot of it, and I still like it, but nowhere near love it.

And I was an usher at the theater when it first opened, so I stood in the back during very many showings and moments, and the audiences were always mostly bored. They always giggled at certain things, too, especially the bathroom scene when the dead hag shows up. Lots of cigarette breaks from viewers, intelligent ones at that, who still thought it was all garbage. I saw numerous sold-out crowds leaving the screenings, mostly grumbling about about how long and boring it was, a few people I knew even saying, "Why didn't you warn us it was so bad?" I liked the film enough so I had no answer. So it was not well received at the time. Unlikable characters, a slow 2 1/2 hours long, silly dialog, Nicholson overacting, etc. But the Kubrick style was still brilliant.

I believe the film gained its horror-classic status well afterwards when it played on HBO or other cable tv channels over and over, plus home video. Theatrically, so many hated it at the time. Look back and call all those audiences who disliked it as idiots? Maybe, but audiences in the 70's and early 80's were way more discreet and wanted quality films compared to today where Disney, MCU, and Star Wars continually get close to 100% on rottentomatoes. PS - Friday the 13th sucked WAY more than The Shining. No contest.

It’s pretty strange that this film went from being laughable and boring when it first came out to becoming maybe the greatest and scariest horror film of al time.

How does that happen. I don’t believe this has ever happened to this magnitude with any other film.

[KenHurd]

Originally Posted by sonny gaunt

Not to derail the last few pages but, since Shout moved I have not received any pre-orders early. Not a big deal(some films showed up three weeks prior to release date!) but, a copy of Frankenstein Created Woman was available for review on this site.

What is the deal? I like to support directly but, if the films are cheaper through Amazon AND I get them at the same time, what is the incentive? Granted, FCW will have a poster but I am not a collector of posters(no room to display).

OK, done whining!

Although they no longer advertise early shipment, I had hoped that my copies of Frankenstein Created Woman and The Entity would ship early. My April preorders all shipped three weeks early, but I think that since these have posters, we're going to get them closer to release date.

[slasherdisc]

Originally Posted by KenHurd

Although they no longer advertise early shipment, I had hoped that my copies of Frankenstein Created Woman and The Entity would ship early. My April preorders all shipped three weeks early, but I think that since these have posters, we're going to get them closer to release date.

Same. I thought for sure we would’ve had The Entity in our hands by now. Posters seem to hold up shipments most of the time.

[HenryHill]

Originally Posted by Bronson13

It’s pretty strange that this film went from being laughable and boring when it first came out to becoming maybe the greatest and scariest horror film of al time.

How does that happen. I don’t believe this has ever happened to this magnitude with any other film.

I can testify to the poor reception of The Shining on its first release. I think the audience wanted to see King's book onscreen, and I remember the most common criticism from people who had also seen it in the theater was the lack of hedge animals, and Kubrick changing the ending from the book.

One of King's criticisms of the movie is spot on: Nicholson looks evil from the jump, so we don't see any transformation of a basically good but weak man into a monster possessed by The Overlook's evil. Kubrick should have cast William Hurt or Christopher Reeve as Jack Torrance, someone who might have the audience on his side at the beginning, but who becomes frightening as he is consumed by the hotel.

[postmodel]

Originally Posted by HenryHill

[Show spoiler]I can testify to the poor reception of The Shining on its first release. I think the audience wanted to see King's book onscreen, and I remember the most common criticism from people who had also seen it in the theater was the lack of hedge animals, and Kubrick changing the ending from the book.

One of King's criticisms of the movie is spot on: Nicholson looks evil from the jump, so we don't see any transformation of a basically good but weak man into a monster possessed by The Overlook's evil. Kubrick should have cast William Hurt or Christopher Reeve as Jack Torrance, someone who might have the audience on his side at the beginning, but who becomes frightening as he is consumed by the hotel.

I would love to have seen William Hurt in this role. I feel like as time goes on he becomes more and more underrated. But imagine Reeve? Fresh off Superman and, if he pulled it off, the audience would've lost it...in a good way.

[deltatauhobbit]

Originally Posted by Bronson13

It’s pretty strange that this film went from being laughable and boring when it first came out to becoming maybe the greatest and scariest horror film of al time.

How does that happen. I don’t believe this has ever happened to this magnitude with any other film.

The Thing and Blade Runner had pretty similar reactions at the time of their release and are both classics now. The Thing more so because Blade Runner has different cuts that affect people's contemporary comparisons.

Originally Posted by postmodel

I would love to have seen William Hurt in this role. I feel like as time goes on he becomes more and more underrated. But imagine Reeve? Fresh off Superman and, if he pulled it off, the audience would've lost it...in a good way.

I mean, I love Jack Nicholson's performance in The Shining, but yeah, Reeve in that role would have been crazy if he went from mild mannered Clark Kent mode into what Nicholson gave at the end. That would have really made people talk at the time.

[Bradsdadg]

I don't know why everyone is dissing on The Shining. I thought it was a masterpiece in it's own right. I don't care how it was different from the book. I also thought it was cast perfectly. Imagine if I cared about audience reactions...I might actually have paid to see Avatar in the theater

[thatguamguy]

Originally Posted by HenryHill

One of King's criticisms of the movie is spot on: Nicholson looks evil from the jump, so we don't see any transformation of a basically good but weak man into a monster possessed by The Overlook's evil. Kubrick should have cast William Hurt or Christopher Reeve as Jack Torrance, someone who might have the audience on his side at the beginning, but who becomes frightening as he is consumed by the hotel.

Kubrick didn't want to tell the story about how awful it is to be the alcoholic monster Jack Torrance, he wanted to tell the story about how awful it is to live with the alcoholic monster Jack Torrance. It makes sense -- as much as King talks about how Jack is sympathetic and normal at the beginning of the book, we're talking about a guy who broke his son's arm while drunk and that wasn't enough to convince him to stop drinking.

I think one thing Kubrick does quite often when adapting is that he takes subjective stories and tries to tell them objectively. So "Red Alert" is a thriller, but the subject matter is so objectively ridiculous that he makes it into a comedy. "Barry Lyndon" is a first person unreliable narrator, he turns that into a third person narrator presented as possibly omniscient. "Spartacus" is told 'Citizen Kane' style in the book -- each chapter is a different first person account of an incident of Spartacus's life; despite Kubrick not having as strong a hand on the script as usual, it still fits the pattern. "Eyes Wide Shut" is almost line for line the same as "Traumanovelle", until the last 15 minutes when Pollack shows up and says "This is exactly what actually happened, it's up to you if you believe me." And "The Shining", he removed the filter of King's sympathy for Jack.

[TripleHBK]

Originally Posted by thatguamguy

Kubrick didn't want to tell the story about how awful it is to be the alcoholic monster Jack Torrance, he wanted to tell the story about how awful it is to live with the alcoholic monster Jack Torrance. It makes sense -- as much as King talks about how Jack is sympathetic and normal at the beginning of the book, we're talking about a guy who broke his son's arm while drunk and that wasn't enough to convince him to stop drinking.

I think one thing Kubrick does quite often when adapting is that he takes subjective stories and tries to tell them objectively. So "Red Alert" is a thriller, but the subject matter is so objectively ridiculous that he makes it into a comedy. "Barry Lyndon" is a first person unreliable narrator, he turns that into a third person narrator presented as possibly omniscient. "Spartacus" is told 'Citizen Kane' style in the book -- each chapter is a different first person account of an incident of Spartacus's life; despite Kubrick not having as strong a hand on the script as usual, it still fits the pattern. "Eyes Wide Shut" is almost line for line the same as "Traumanovelle", until the last 15 minutes when Pollack shows up and says "This is exactly what actually happened, it's up to you if you believe me." And "The Shining", he removed the filter of King's sympathy for Jack.

This is all the more interesting considering the various substances King himself was on during this time. It's interesting to consider the idea that King himself may have been projecting himself a bit onto Jack which is why as you mentioned he's viewed in a more sympathetic light from Kings material/perspective. This would also explain Kubriks perspective as essentially representing "The World" and everyone else that was not Jack/King and how they would have viewed him.

With that in mind it also makes the reasons more clear as to why King would have disliked Kubriks take on the material so much. If we assume that King was projecting himself onto the character of Jack, then Kubriks film could have been viewed as a direct criticism/condemnation of King himself.

[Slob]

Originally Posted by HenryHill

One of King's criticisms of the movie is spot on: Nicholson looks evil from the jump, so we don't see any transformation of a basically good but weak man into a monster possessed by The Overlook's evil. Kubrick should have cast William Hurt or Christopher Reeve as Jack Torrance, someone who might have the audience on his side at the beginning, but who becomes frightening as he is consumed by the hotel.

King once said he thought Ron Howard would have been perfect.

[Darkstream]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

The television miniseries adaptation of The Shining could have been something special. It was more faithful to the book, Rebecca De Mornay was a great Wendy, and the cast, in general, was superb.

The sappy “Kissing, kissing.. That’s what I’ve been missing.” ending just kills the whole thing, though.

LOL! So true!

I respect that they were going back to the source material and trying to be more faithful to King's novel, so to get that version out there on film (even if only for TV) is cool, I suppose, but it is nowhere near as great as Kubrik's film, no matter how much it may have departed from the book.

[Wizard-of-Wars]

Ok guys! I got it!

The movie SHOUT needs to do....

CLIFFORD!!! The 1994 Martin Short film

[Adcatalano]

100%

[chetripley80]

Do you guys think Deathstalker/Deathstalker 2 will be re-released, considering the upcoming 4K steelbook Corman releases?

I wasn’t aware of the cheesy greatness of these movies until just recently, and missed out on buying the original release during the short window of time it was in print.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by chetripley80

Do you guys think Deathstalker/Deathstalker 2 will be re-released, considering the upcoming 4K steelbook Corman releases?

I wasn’t aware of the cheesy greatness of these movies until just recently, and missed out on buying the original release during the short window of time it was in print.

I would probably need change my pants if Dealthstalker got a SF steelbook.

[TripleHBK]

Originally Posted by chetripley80

Do you guys think Deathstalker/Deathstalker 2 will be re-released, considering the upcoming 4K steelbook Corman releases?

I wasn’t aware of the cheesy greatness of these movies until just recently, and missed out on buying the original release during the short window of time it was in print.

I hope so though I wouldn't hold my breath. Fairly priced $17.99 individual editions of each film would be great. I passed on the last double feature due to having so many other more important titles on my list at the time, but now that I've picked up so much other stuff these would be something I'd grab if I was able to.

[heebiejeebie]

Even better would be a Deathstalker collection with all 4 movies.

[Ruemorgue10]

Originally Posted by chetripley80

Do you guys think Deathstalker/Deathstalker 2 will be re-released, considering the upcoming 4K steelbook Corman releases?

I wasn’t aware of the cheesy greatness of these movies until just recently, and missed out on buying the original release during the short window of time it was in print.

I already own the OOP double feature set, but would double dip in a heartbeat for 4K steelbooks.

The original set was part of a failed experiment by Shout! and was the clear bestseller of the offered titles, so I think they should consider a re-release with better PQ. Those movies are too much fun to lanquish in discontinued hell.

[JasonMichael]

Originally Posted by Ruemorgue10

The original set was part of a failed experiment by Shout! and was the clear bestseller of the offered titles

What was the failed experiment?