HDR Discussion Thread

[Staying Salty]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Salty, ever stayed here?

But I did sail these waters exactly one year apart

shell.jpg...bluenose.jpg

[DanBa]

"Tech giants are lined up behind the 'royalty-free' 4K codec AV1
Get ready for a new video format rolling out later this year."
https://www.engadget.com/2018/03/28/...etflix-amazon/

With HEVC, HDR metadata are transported by HEVC SEI messages.
https://www.atsc.org/wp-content/uplo...nt-2094-10.pdf




With AV1, HDR metadata will be transported by Metadata OBU messages.
https://aomediacodec.github.io/av1-s...ata-obu-syntax




With VP9, HDR metadata can’t be transported by a VP9 message. They are conveyed by a WebM container at the beginning of a VP9 session: VP9 can’t support frame by frame Dynamic HDR such as Dolby Vision, VP9 can only support HDR10 (i.e. VP9-PQ YouTube HDR) and HLG (i.e. VP9-HLG YouTube HDR).
https://source.android.com/devices/tech/display/hdr


Apparently, TVs will also support AV1 from 2020, when AV1-compliant SoC will be available.



HDR AV1 video >> Internet >> future TV with HDR AV1 decoding


Current HDR TVs will be able to play HDR AV1 videos via future cheap streaming players such as Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K or Chromecast Ultra.

HDR AV1 video >> Internet >> future streaming player with HDR AV1 decoding > decoded HDR video signal >> HDMI >> current HDR TV

[oddbox83]

IMHO, the last thing we need is yet another competing HDR format.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Staying Salty

But I did sail these waters exactly one year apart

Attachment 209766...Attachment 209768

nice

Happy Birthday Navy (today) –
https://www.facebook.com/USNavyBlueA...1239260261063/

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DanBa

"Tech giants are lined up behind the 'royalty-free' 4K codec AV1
Get ready for a new video format rolling out later this year."
https://www.engadget.com/2018/03/28/...etflix-amazon/

follow-up to statement made on 10-1-2018 about AV1 encoder being slow - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...w#post15588170

Seems as mentioned during a conference about a week later to 10-1, they’re working to make it faster, sooner than everyone has expected - http://www.streamingmedia.com/Articl...FhoHX8.twitter

Over time, with optimization, we’ll see how AV1 fares in comparison to other codecs.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by oddbox83

IMHO, the last thing we need is yet another competing HDR format.

As far as more ‘formats’ go, believe me, I feel your pain - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...r#post15503415

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by oddbox83

IMHO, the last thing we need is yet another competing HDR format.

Agreed. Ludicrous.

It's already this bad:


Just stop it, now.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

It's already this bad:
Just stop it, now.

At this point, I'm not sure what I dislike seeing more....Carton Bale's viewing distance chart (with its inherent non-precision) or that dizzying Venn diagram. It's depressing that those things have gotten more exposure over time than some peoples' scientific theses and dissertations.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by oddbox83

IMHO, the last thing we need is yet another competing HDR format.

It's a codec. Not an HDR format.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Penton just posted this video in the HDR discussion thread as a primer for HDR, it's been around for a while but it's the first time I've seen it and it's so interesting how the speaker is covering all the sorts of things that some complain about when it comes to how SDR 709 looks vs HDR 2020. I don't mean "revisonism" so much but how HDR vs SDR pans out in general.

The narrator remarks that the images of animals against bright rocks were deliberately boosted into a yellowy tone in SDR by a different colourist to sell the effect, while the dynamism and contrast of HDR means that it doesn't need to cheat the colour in order to convey the intensity of the shot, so it ends up looking more natural and yet more vibrant at the same time. He also mentions how blue can end up being mixed with green in the SDR volume if you want more brightness on a blue sky, hence the more cyany skies we've become accustomed to in SDR 709 perhaps? Fascinating stuff and thanks to Penton for posting it again.

https://vimeo.com/203351189#t=1h6m34s

The below pics of the wooden structure movie set on the beach for the ultimately to be HDR graded Top Gun: Maverick show a grey sky due to morning fog, which is not uncommon and actually rather typical. This often burns off to reveal a deep (real) blue sky, which only HDR would be able to precisely portray. Additionally, at night, the stars above are beautiful and could make for some great speculars.

[Penton-Man]

Put a call into Patrick, but I’m getting a busy signal. Will follow up with a later email if there is a problem.

[Penton-Man]

Is is necessary to explain the significance of this to HDR?, which was also previously posted -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prpP...3PMAJ#t=19m53s

^ presentation by one of a handful of the premiere scientists/engineers at Dolby Laboratories who developed HDR from the get-go and nurtured it through the standards committees.

[Waboman]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

...to reveal a deep (real) blue sky, which only HDR would be able to precisely portray.

I believe Crayola calls it Bluetiful.

https://www.crayola.com/splash/promos/newcolor

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Is is necessary to explain the significance of this to HDR?

Or, the value of choosing a low noise (compared to some other cameras, thusly not necessitating the use of DNR, a topic which just came up today on another thread - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...r#post15633435), superb dynamic range camera with versatile built-in 8-step optical ND filter to capture this scene which I posted previously and which TMZ paparazzi (http://www.tmz.com/2018/05/31/tom-cr...ilming-begins/) never did get a decent side-by-side shot of -



(half the airfield having to be shut down for this scene which was NOTAM’d)

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

HDR screens and screams

ICYMI, also, previously posted initially only as a direct link for unbiased folks to digest by themselves - https://vimeo.com/290137313

and then in a later supplemental post, after being challenged, I mentioned that this particular new 3,600 nit on camera monitor includes multiple HDR curve functions. So, to follow-up on that and be more precise, it contains HDR emulation including HDR EOTFs of PQ, HLG and S-Log3.

Perhaps there was confusion? in some minds over the association of where ‘S-Log3’ can fit into HDR because most readers are only familiar with the basic HDR formats (PQ and HLG)? If that’s the case, to learn more, begin about here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKf4208c_9E#t=15m24s

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

I would love to be back on AVS Forum and hope one day the wrongdoing they banned me for will be acknowledged and my membership will be renewed.
With all that said I love my home here on Blu-ray.com and enjoy the large group of highly skilled and knowledgeable members….

Sorry to hear the former, as I'd forgotten that. Personally, I never had a problem with any of the mods at AVS, members yes, (Blu-ray v. HD DVD format war), mods, not that I recall. Nevertheless, just down the road from where Top Gun: Maverick is being filmed, words to live by….
https://www.facebook.com/goalcast/vi...9361745141008/

P.S.
To this day, I still make square corners.

[Penton-Man]

Note: All posts above saying "Is is" should read "Is it". Don't have time to edit now as have to get up early for conference call.

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

At this point, I'm not sure what I dislike seeing more....Carton Bale's viewing distance chart (with its inherent non-precision) or that dizzying Venn diagram.

<googles> Carlton Bale?

I've seen it before and given copies to several friends. I didn't know that it wasn't correct... hope I haven't put my foot in it but if so I'm sure there is a past thread you could point me to where it was debunked?

My main complaint was with the low quality of the graphic!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

<googles> Carlton Bale?

I've seen it before and given copies to several friends. I didn't know that it wasn't correct... hope I haven't put my foot in it but if so I'm sure there is a past thread you could point me to where it was debunked?

My main complaint was with the low quality of the graphic!

Rather than me spotting off more on this beaten-to-death topic, in a nutshell, the chart is imprecise in that it doesn’t understand the basis of ‘20/20’ vision, nor does it take into account things like Vernier acuity, (note to those overly sensitized, BEWARE, there’s a reference to Navy pilots in this lecture) -

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Beyond de retina, da brain also does a purrty good job at further increasing our ability to see...Vernier acuity (hyperacuity, i.e. matching up side-by-side lines)

Lecture 21 – https://wenku.baidu.com/view/79565f2...bf78a551b.html

for outside corroboration, I’ll cite a member on AVS who is a practicing optometrist with whom I do agree with…… https://www.avsforum.com/forum/286-l...l#post24402463

and as a reminder to folks that the SMPTE 2018 Annual Technical Conference & Exhibition is fast approaching, the conclusion from a SMPTE Life Fellow – “So, how fine is visual acuity for detail perception? I don’t know. But it doesn’t seem to be a simple 30 cpd”, (from this piece - https://www.sportsvideo.org/blogs/?b...=the-e-and-eye)

P.S. Bale’s chart is based on the 30 cpd notion. You can do a little independent study on this yourself without getting too scientific by asking various end users (ray) having 4K tvs if they can see detail beyond the screen-to-eye distance for 4K suggested by that chart.

[Geoff D]

Penton, you've referenced Matty Libatique up in here more than once and when watching A Star is Born earlier today (SDR, Sony 4K projector albeit 2K DCP) I had to laugh when I realised mid-scene that was him playing the photographer in the photo shoot scene with Gaga.

What does this have to with HDR? Lemme just say that I cannot wait to see this movie on UHD, there are so many blown highlights throughout and if the HDR can improve those - even just a lil' bit, I don't need to see every filament in every bulb to get my HDR rocks off - then it's going to look even more stunning, what with all of that bold colour that's already there. I actually thought it was shot on film, such is the texture that the image holds and I even spotted a trace of density flutter - but no, it was shot on Alexa! If this didn't have some kind of film emulation LUT I'll be amazed.