4K Movies Releases

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Full special report on Luc Besson’s Lucy by fdtimes is now available online…https://www.dropbox.com/s/g3dxfrru1l...ial_Report.pdf

On a sensitive note, Luc is a founding member of the Brain & Spine Institute based at the Pitié-Salpêtrière Hospital in Paris. On a more technical note, on p.5 in the background to the gorgeous Scarlett Johansson, this time, rather than an MRI, shown on the display are computerized axial tomographic sections thru…..da brain.

I’m also looking forward this fall to seeing another camera man’s work, that of Emmanuel Lubezki….http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Birdm...nce-43541.html for Birdman.

As the man has a fine eye for imagery, his photos -> http://instagram.com/chivexp and was one of the first to come forward to pronounce…

“I think every cinematographer will have an interest in high dynamic range, because it’s the way that we want to capture images, so later we can do whatever we want in [digital color grading]. We need all the information that is captured by the camera,” Lubezki said. “That’s something that we don’t have right now. We are living in what I would call ‘the gap.’ We have all these new instruments, and they are fantastic, but they are not really capturing what I was used to capturing with a [film] negative. So if I could capture [and project] that, or more, I would be incredibly excited.”

Note to Anthony, some vfx work on Birdman was performed in your neck of the woods… at a Montreal based VFX studio.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Fence post were used for an illustration.

I know, it was just meant as a Segway, also "fence post makes it sound more important than what it actually is (as in if you have a post from top to bottom then horizontal lines can fit becomes meaningless)

Take a look at a professional resolution chart (ISO 12233) and you will see H and V patterns and all measurements are in terms of H and V resolution.

agree, but that is my point. H/V resolution is used because it is easier for the tester (i.e. "can you see the black and white lines instead of the black and white dots) as well as eliminating a bit of error (i.e. printers won't make a perfect square). But only looking at one of them only gives half the info, which is why you always look at both V and H.

The fact is UHD should show twice as many post as HDTV, not four times as many as implied in ad copy.

where does it say 4x the posts? you decided posts are important, like I pointed out before if you do (for example) a black and white weave of threads with H and V at the same time and not one beside the other or one after the other where W+W=W, W+B=B+W=Gray and B & B= B, won't you see that you have twice as many vertical threads and twice as many horizontal threads and actually 4x the threads?

Back in 1927 when films were 4:3 Able Gance decided to make Napoleon a wide screen movie by using three cameras, three film rolls and three projectors turning 4:3 into 4:1. Obviously with this set up you can get 3x the lines in one direction but not the other. How about those ultra wide screen TVs that have a 21:9 ratio and what if someone made a TV that was 3840x1080 instead of 2560x1080?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I know of no scientific study that has measured the value in that fashion. You would have to rely on anecdotal evidence from fellow 4K tv owners.

What I can tell you is ….recognizing certain caveats or even possible limitations/flaws in previously presented European scientific testing, evidence has been presented that there is a statistically significant difference between 4K and 1080p and it has been measured in “grades” on a 5 point grade scale. 4K has been determined by such scientific testing to show a ½ grade difference better picture quality than 1080p at a 1.5 picture height screen-to-eye distance. Think of that sort of like 1080p being ‘good’ and 4K being ‘very good’.

Since it is assumed by investigators that many consumers will: 1. refuse to alter their current furniture arrangement to take full advantage of increased spatial resolution (4K), 2. won’t ever use larger desktop monitors in their offices/studies where they normally sit closer to the screen anyway, 3. not have any children who enjoy sitting on the floor closer to the TV to watch their favorite shows….testing was also done at the ‘normal’ seating position or screen-to-eye distance of 9 ft., with a 56” TV and at that distance, there was about a ¼ grade picture improvement for 4K source over 1080p source. Think of that sort of like the difference between ‘very good’ and ‘very, very good’.

2 caveats regarding the methodology which lead to the above results though -

1. This testing was done presenting scenes with uncompressed progressive source. It has been theorized (even conceded by the investigators themselves) that the improvement gap between 4K and HD might have been more significant if HEVC (or, for that matter, AVC) compressed contents had been used.

2. This was not a ‘side-by-side’ comparable 1080p display (less pixels) vs. a 4K display (more pixels). The 4K source was fed into a 4K tv….and… the 1080p source (downconverted from the same 4K source) was fed into the same 4K tv. Some people, such as Charles Poynton, believe that 4K tvs ‘work’ better than HD tvs because the 4K display pixels are so invisibly small that they don’t contribute any visible aliasing by themselves. So…in regards to those previous European tests, perhaps if a 4K display had been directly compared to a 1080p display; likewise, as in caveat #1, a larger improvement gap in picture quality difference may have been demonstrated between 4K and HD.

Anyway, for comparison purposes, other testing has shown HDR and HFR to offer a full grade improvement in picture quality, i.e. ‘good’ to excellent…independent of close or ‘typical’ viewing distances.

P.S. ‘Grades’ may seem a funky quality scale in comparison to a specific numerical value but there is some science behind it, see Fig. 6 around half way down the page in B.T.500-13…http://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/...1-I!!PDF-E.pdf

I received a question on another forum from a member who apparently reads this particular thread of our blu-ray.com forum asking me what brand/model of 4K display was used in the above described scientific testing by the European professional lab and also an inquiry as to my exact meaning for the term “uncompressed” as this information was apparently not revealed during the recent SMPTE webinar by Hans…https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ns#post9441038

Ans. – I’ll reveal that the testing involved what the investigators deemed a Grade 2 (https://tech.ebu.ch/docs/tech/tech3320.pdf ) 4K (3840 x 2160) 10 bit LCD monitor….(True 10-bit)

And “uncompressed” as in imagery recorded as 4096x2160 pixels/50p RAW, 4:4:4, 16 bit (S-Log2) with sequences including 180 and 90 degree shutter angles, then -> cropped to 3840x2160 pixels/50p and converted to DPX, RGB, 4:4:4, 10 bit (B.T.709) for presentation. So, a compression codec like for instance HEVC or H.264 was not used to display the ‘4K’ or ‘HD’ source on the ‘4K’ monitor for the testing.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

where does it say 4x the posts?

When the term 4x the resolution is used it implies the image has resolved 4 times the number of post or 4 times the number of horizontal strands of wire for a barb wire fence. UHD is not 4x the resolution HDTV, it is twice the resolution (H &V) HDTV. I have no problem with the term UHD has 4x the pixel density HDTV (all else being equal).

Resolution: 5 the process of reducing or separating something into components. 6 the smallest interval measurable by a telescope or other scientific instrument. 7 the degree of detail visible in a photographic or television image

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

When the term 4x the resolution is used it implies the image has resolved 4 times the number of post or 4 times the number of horizontal strands of wire for a barb wire fence. UHD is not 4x the resolution HDTV, it is twice the resolution (H &V) HDTV. I have no problem with the term UHD has 4x the pixel density HDTV (all else being equal).

Resolution: 5 the process of reducing or separating something into components. 6 the smallest interval measurable by a telescope or other scientific instrument. 7 the degree of detail visible in a photographic or television image

but the degree of detail "visible" is 4x and not 2x, a post or wire or horizontal strands is not the degree of detail in the image but a long line of details all the same and in a straight row, the pixel is the actual degree of detail and you have 4x that number.

I could easily instead of a test with just lines that are a given length divide the lines in 2 and alternate them (i.e. so that half the line is black and the other white) and it won't affect visibility.


PS like you mentioned before, people used to talk about Horizontal resolution or vertical resolution, hat is because those two are the components of resolution, I only have one left arm and one right arm but I have two arms, the same here the resolution (or if you want total resolution is HR*VR, where I had one pixel with HD I can now have 2 pixels horizontally and two pixels vertically but that means 4 pixels in total right?

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

but the degree of detail

It is apparent that my Oxford University Press reference is different than yours and my electronics degree is different than yours. You seem to be on the bandwagon of pixel density = resolution, I am not.

Once again, H resolution of a video camera is determined by many factors as in lens, number of columns in the CCD, amplifier bandwidth, etc. V resolution is determined by how many times a row of the above is repeated. IIRC, one of the film scanners (Rank or Spirit or ?) used a pickup device with a single row with the film movement being the V scan. Same for most inkjet printers (in reverse), several factors determine its H resolution. The V resolution is determined by how small the advancements in paper are. IOW, a 1920 x 180 image will still show 2.67 x the number of fence post as a DVD even tho the pixel density is the same. Of course the image will not be as tall as the DVD.

There is a ton of info on image resolution, one being here that I mostly agree with.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I see you’re a potential fan? of Birdman .... https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...an#post9313995

Moi aussi , wait a moment….

Ed Norton starring in this film is reason enough for a blind buy for me. Love the guy, one of my faves.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Ed Norton

Universitatis Yalensis

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Ed Norton starring in this film is reason enough for a blind buy for me. Love the guy, one of my faves.

Will add this one (Birdman) to my rental list to see if it is a worthy purchase. Unfortunately, the DI is 2K so no potential UHD BD release.

Really liked Norton in The Italian Job & The Illusionist.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Will add this one (Birdman) to my rental list to see if it is a worthy purchase. Unfortunately, the DI is 2K so no potential UHD BD release.

Really liked Norton in The Italian Job & The Illusionist.

Me too, although my favourite performance of his by far was in American History X.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Will add this one (Birdman) to my rental list to see if it is a worthy purchase. Unfortunately, the DI is 2K so no potential UHD BD release.....

Well, we’ll just have to remedy that by adding a 4K Fincher flick to the D-Cinema October slate and eventually to da Blu-ray.com digital list…. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=220755 for L'armée is way ahead with entries in the celluloid sourced list…. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=218262.

Un momento, por favor….must check if the tech specs are up on imdb yet.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

adding a 4K Fincher flick to the D-Cinema October slate....

Namely....Gone Girl (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2267998/ )

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Me too...

Birdman should be getting a little more buzz from theater-goers this weekend as its trailer accompanies Calvary (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2234003/) which opens this Friday. Is Tob still around for our Arsenal transfer news?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Birdman should be getting a little more buzz...

Meanwhile, something to work by today….

YouTube

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Namely....Gone Girl (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2267998/ )

Will add that one to my list. Rosamund Pike is pretty easy to look at . I really like Fincher's "The Curious Case of Benjamin Button".

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Birdman

Back to the animal theme for a moment…. Blu-Dog are you sitting down?
Finally, something of substance from 'lawmakers' - http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/va-...s-deal-n167061

[Penton-Man]

? Is the addition of a DCI-P3 mode, a pioneering technological step forward by a manufacturer in taking the lead to help consumers become as future-proof as possible counting on the assumption that the future color gamut for 4K Blu-ray will be established as DCI-P3…………..http://www.65ec9700.com/

Or…. unless Blu-ray movies are eventually mastered in P3, for reasons explained before throughout this page from about a year ago ( https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ma#post7973904 ), a step backwards for the typical consumer at home in choosing the DCI mode in the TV’s menu for watching rec.709 movie content?

[kenoh]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Definitely

Remember, the bad guys always win!

Da Bad Guys Are In There!? - YouTube

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by kenoh

Yup, and I suppose I'm the bad guy...

Remember, the bad guys always win!

I’m not so sure of that but, I guess it depends on your definition of winning –

I'm The Bad Guy? - YouTube

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I received a question on another forum from a member who apparently reads this particular thread of our blu-ray.com forum asking me what brand/model of 4K display was used in the above described scientific testing by the European professional lab and also an inquiry as to my exact meaning for the term “uncompressed” as this information was apparently not revealed during the recent SMPTE webinar by Hans…https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ns#post9441038

Ans. – I’ll reveal that the testing involved what the investigators deemed a Grade 2 (https://tech.ebu.ch/docs/tech/tech3320.pdf ) 4K (3840 x 2160) 10 bit LCD monitor….(True 10-bit)

And “uncompressed” as in imagery recorded as 4096x2160 pixels/50p RAW, 4:4:4, 16 bit (S-Log2) with sequences including 180 and 90 degree shutter angles, then -> cropped to 3840x2160 pixels/50p and converted to DPX, RGB, 4:4:4, 10 bit (B.T.709) for presentation. So, a compression codec like for instance HEVC or H.264 was not used to display the ‘4K’ or ‘HD’ source on the ‘4K’ monitor for the testing.

Addendum to the above ^.
The test included over 70 observers.