4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

While I think 4K resolution is worth the cost for a new video format I think the argument is that they wish that an option existed for improving other areas of video quality without having to pay the costs related to 4K resolution

I get that. The issue is, like I said before, off the top of my head, they have added live, bonus view (can't remember which came first), d-box and atmos (the last one very recently) to the "1080p" specs. These are features that could be added without breaking playback capability on existing players. So in my opinion (and experience) when they can add a feature to BD without forcing people to "have to pay the costs" they do.

The features we are discussing (like HDR, ...) as coming with "4k specs" that have nothing to do with resolution would require someone to "have to pay the costs" to play these 1080p+ disks on a 1080p+ player.

If someone has a 1080p TV that would benefit from "the improved video quality of 1080p+ disks" (so he saves on a TV) that person would still need a new 1080P+ player with a new 1080p+ chipset The same way that there is barely any difference between a 3D player and a 2D player in pricing (especially when compared to having to buy a player in the first place) there will most likely be barely any difference between 4K and 1080p+ player. So why wouldn't that guy just buy a 4k player to connect to his 1080p+ TV and be ready for when he buys a 4K TV?

And because the 1080p+ disks are useless in a 1080p BD player tings would just get needlessly complicated for no reason (i.e. it is easy to say "in order to watch the film in 3D you need a 3D BD player and a 3D TV" or "in order to watch the film in 4k you need a 4k BD player and a 4k TV" but not as easy "in order to watch the film in 1080p+ (HDR....) you need a 1080p+(HDR..) player and a 1080p+(HDR...) TV" since I am guessing most people would not know if they have a 1080p+ TV or player.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by RedIsNotBlue

Lol. I'm not thinking THAT far ahead. I meant future proof as in the near future. Hell even 4K isn't future proof considering they are at some point going to have 8K HDTV's right?

I think he might have meant HDCP 2.2

[RedIsNotBlue]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

I think he might have meant HDCP 2.2

Okay gotcha. Yeah I was wondering what he meant like the next HDMI cable? Didn't 2.0 just come onto the market? lol. And yes I am pretty sure the TV I bought has an input for HDCP 2.2. It just came out May of this year so I think it is up to date on pretty much everything. Like I said one of the main reasons I purchased it was for the 3D and the passive 3D glasses. From what I have read and heard the 3D resolution has always been not fully taken advantage of with the typical 1080p setups considering it cuts the down on the resolution and the 4K gives you the full HD resolution when viewing 3D.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by RedIsNotBlue

Don't you also really need a REALLY solid internet connection to get 4K resolution? At least when it comes to streaming feature length films that is...

The 4K movie content can be downloaded and I think a broadband speed of at least 10 Mbps is recommended for 4K downloads but check here to confirm… http://helpguide.sony.net/hv/fmpx10/v1/en/index.html

Granted, it may not be of the same quality as these downloads….
ftp://202.120.39.226/UHD_YUV_444_10bit/

Source: http://medialab.sjtu.edu.cn/publicat...3_QOMEX_SL.pdf ->

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Seriously, you want better detail, like YUV 4:4:4 color sampling, 10 bits per sample - from the folks at 交大...there’s some real enviable ‘wood’ in the last sample - http://medialab.sjtu.edu.cn/web4k/index.html

But, far more entertaining.

[RedIsNotBlue]

Sounds like I have a lot of playing around with my new TV ahead of me.

[meremortal]

I'm in no rush to go 4k any time soon. I'd be happy enough just to get some of my old catalogue favorites dithered down to 1080p from recent 4k scans. There's still a lot of work that could be done to improve the blu experience such as always including both theatrical and director's cut in the same release when available and one of my biggest pet peeves, including the original mono/stereo soundtracks in lossless for older titles. I imagine with the proper setup 4k could be really exciting - it's just going to be a while until I make that investment with the slow title rollout and higher pricing that tends to happen out the gate.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by RedIsNotBlue

Yeah I know streaming is pretty much the only option right now. I will pass on that though I am not starved for 4K content to pay that much. Don't you also really need a REALLY solid internet connection to get 4K resolution? At least when it comes to streaming feature length films that is...

4K is available via streaming and downloads. AFAIK, only Netflix offers 4K streaming and it's only a handful of movies and TV shows. I believe the bitrate is between 13 and 15 mbps using H.265. (a little more than double their 1080p bitrate). Since it is highly compressed, most of the benefits of higher resolution are compromised, but nevertheless it still looks significantly better than Netflix 1080p. I'd say it's about on par with Blu-ray, but haven't watched or compared enough to judge which (if either) is better.

Sony movies are only available through their download service. There's about 70 movies plus some TV shows, as well as over 100 other programs (docs, short clips like music videos, etc, that are mostly free). The bitrate on those is around 50 mbps and so it looks significantly better than Netflix 4k, and of course noticeably better than Blu-ray. How much better depends on the scene. For scenes with lots of small detail (like city skylines, crowds of people, etc), the difference is quite obvious. But close-ups and other scenes with fewer objects the difference is frankly hardly noticeable, even when you get close to the screen.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

...For scenes with lots of small detail (like city skylines, crowds of people, etc)...

Come Dec. 12, there will be plenty of that here with Marco…

Marco Polo - Main Trailer - Netflix [HD] - YouTube

and although shot digitally in 4K, perhaps approaching a ‘film look’ to at least pique Sap’s interest.

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

If someone has a 1080p TV that would benefit from "the improved video quality of 1080p+ disks" (so he saves on a TV) that person would still need a new 1080P+ player with a new 1080p+ chipset The same way that there is barely any difference between a 3D player and a 2D player in pricing (especially when compared to having to buy a player in the first place) there will most likely be barely any difference between 4K and 1080p+ player. So why wouldn't that guy just buy a 4k player to connect to his 1080p+ TV and be ready for when he buys a 4K TV?

When Blu-ray 3D came out though the additional cost for adding the decoding hardware was fairly small and the cost difference was about $100. The cost difference for a 4K at 60 fps HEVC decoder is likely going to be a few hundred dollars. 4k resolution moves the base price of a 4K Blu-ray player high enough that the CE companies might be tempted to remove other features. A video format is a compromise between capability and cost so I did wonder how many of the features they listed in September would really get into the standard.

Originally Posted by Anthony P

And because the 1080p+ disks are useless in a 1080p BD player tings would just get needlessly complicated for no reason (i.e. it is easy to say "in order to watch the film in 3D you need a 3D BD player and a 3D TV" or "in order to watch the film in 4k you need a 4k BD player and a 4k TV" but not as easy "in order to watch the film in 1080p+ (HDR....) you need a 1080p+(HDR..) player and a 1080p+(HDR...) TV" since I am guessing most people would not know if they have a 1080p+ TV or player.

What happens though if the BDA starts adding extensions for 3D, high dynamic range, and all the other features they cut going forward? Will the BDA add all the extensions at once or are we going to get 4K Blu-ray discs/players with combinations of extensions? It is possible that 4K Blu-ray might be more complex than a 1080p+ video format that had everything.

[bailey1987]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

What happens though if the BDA starts adding extensions for 3D, high dynamic range, and all the other features they cut going forward? Will the BDA add all the extensions at once or are we going to get 4K Blu-ray discs/players with combinations of extensions? It is possible that 4K Blu-ray might be more complex than a 1080p+ video format that had everything.

This comment takes the words right out of my mouth. I have been stuck with this TV which is not 3D since I bought it. Although it is a pioneer kuro, being a kuro and a plasma make it harder to part with. I was outraged initially however I got over it because after thinking about it we are better with the 3D TV's then without them and besides there is only two films(My Bloody Valentine 3D and Resident Evil) that I will truly watch and enjoy out of all the 3D films available. It's silly really my mood at the time because home cinema is a bit of an hobby, however 4K is right round the corner(although I have been told that since 3D came along.) which is why I won't buy a new TV . Besides it will be a projector I buy next I doubt I will ever have a TV after that so this Kuro is my first and last.

My concern is that the spec wont be finalised and I will dive in too soon and end up in this mess again.

[Penton-Man]

Casual reading in this month’s SMPTE journal….http://journal.smpte.org/content/123/8/18.abstract for color connoisseurs stuck at the airport.

[kg1]

I'm optimistic for 4K Blu-rays. Recently, I upgraded to a Sony Bravia 65" 4K 3D X850B. Previously had a 46" Samsung 1080p from the '00s. Didn't know 4K TVs automatically upconvert to 4K. I've watched November Man all the way through (the Russian Parliament shot was beautiful!) and have partially watched Captain America 2, Drive, and Dawn of the Planet of the Apes, and all look amazing. Sabata looked good. Content to wait for the 4K Blu-ray standards and will buy a player next Christmas should movies be out that I want at that time & the player is reasonably priced (lower than the media servers with 4K content). 1080p Blu-rays will probably be my catalog format, but I will definitely buy future releases in 4K Blu-rays should they be competively priced (fingers crossed for 1080p Blu copies included to give to family). I'll look to upgrade my audio system once I know a receiver is fully compliant with the 4K standards released next summer.

[RedIsNotBlue]

Yeah the content is already there and studios are still actively filming movies in 4K so I can't imagine them not pushing 4K Blu-ray's considering how much they are bothering to invest into it as it is.

[steve1971]

Originally Posted by bailey1987

This comment takes the words right out of my mouth. I have been stuck with this TV which is not 3D since I bought it. Although it is a pioneer kuro, being a kuro and a plasma make it harder to part with. I was outraged initially however I got over it because after thinking about it we are better with the 3D TV's then without them and besides there is only two films(My Bloody Valentine 3D and Resident Evil) that I will truly watch and enjoy out of all the 3D films available. It's silly really my mood at the time because home cinema is a bit of an hobby, however 4K is right round the corner(although I have been told that since 3D came along.) which is why I won't buy a new TV . Besides it will be a projector I buy next I doubt I will ever have a TV after that so this Kuro is my first and last.

My concern is that the spec wont be finalised and I will dive in too soon and end up in this mess again.

bailey1987,

I feel as you do. My Sony 55W900A will more then likely be my last HDTV because as soon as my wife and I move I am going the projection route.

[HeavyHitter]

Has there been any word on scope movies being anamorphic on 4K Blu much in the same way as anamorphic DVDs? Obviously, resolution is being wasted on current scope Blu-ray content.

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Has there been any word on scope movies being anamorphic on 4K Blu much in the same way as anamorphic DVDs? Obviously, resolution is being wasted on current scope Blu-ray content.

The DCI standard doesn't use anamorphic encoding for scope movies so it wouldn't make sense to do that with 4K Blu-ray unless the DCI standard was changed. Also a problem with encoding scope movies that way is that it would reduce video quality for over 99% of customers while only a very tiny percentage of customers would benefit and they would only get a 35% increase in resolution. In comparison going from 2K to 4K is a 300% increase in resolution.

[Geoff D]

No, he doesn't mean added width, he means encoding 2.35 video inside a 16:9 frame with an anamorphic stretch, so a 'scope show could take advantage of the full vertical resolution, instead of x amount being taken up by black bars.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Casual reading in this month’s SMPTE journal….http://journal.smpte.org/content/123/8/18.abstract for color connoisseurs stuck at the airport.

I'd never considered that they could simply 'clip' the 709 output from the 2020 gamut, although that does seem to be a very crude solution.

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

No, he doesn't mean added width, he means encoding 2.35 video inside a 16:9 frame with an anamorphic stretch, so a 'scope show could take advantage of the full vertical resolution, instead of x amount being taken up by black bars.

I corrected my post and while that did make sense back when DVD was launched I think the situation is different for 4K Blu-ray.

[Member-275053]

I purchased a Samsung 50" 3D 4K UHD TV (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-...&skuId=4496004) from Best Buy during Black Friday Week. But, after doing more research I have learned that this technology is still in it's infancy and continually developing. So, I returned the TV. That's fine. My current TV will suffice for now and I saved $1500.00. But, my questions is where does this leave me in regards to Blu-ray purchases over the next few years? Should I still continue to purchase Blu-rays knowing that they will eventually be outdated, much like DVDs, by the release of 4K Blu-ray? Of course, several titles may not get the 4K treatment, but those titles will also likely be the current cost of DVDs in the near future saving me 100s, if not 1000s of dollars.