Netflix Turns Focus Back to Disc

[lobo81865]

Serves Neflix right for the arrogant way they announced the latest price increase, and the way they are treating their customers. Former customer in my case. I dropped them the minute I got the price hike email.

I already got an email saying they want me back, but that's not going to happen. I had been with them about 10 years too.

[Pelican170]

Originally Posted by Rblu-Dblu

Too little too late. They irritated me with their insistent push on streaming. I will never go back to them.

+1, totally agree...

[lobosrul]

Yes the PQ sucked balls, even compared to other streaming, but investors not taking too well to the loss of Starzplay. Shares are currently down 9.5%!

[Rob71]

So basically what was free last year now costs $7.99. Minus Criterion and now Starz, which includes Sony and Disney titles. Maybe they'll reconsider their price hike.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by JLTucker

Which is awesome because 4:3, shitty rips will now be gone.

Just shitty 1080p streams to worry about now!

[Steedeel]

In my opinion, one more major studio drop out for Netflix and it is game over.

[kefrank]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

In my opinion, one more major studio drop out for Netflix and it is game over.

Game over in what sense? I think your oddly irrational aversion to all things streaming is clouding your ability to analyze this situation objectively.

The market is in a transition right now. The major content owners are begrudging of any business model that looks different from what they are used to. This is clearly evident in the Starz negotiations. Netflix offered them ten times more money than they got previously, but Starz also demanded Netflix go to a tiered/premium pricing model (ala cable/satellite), which Netflix refused to do. That old way of doing things is a major reason more and more consumers are "cutting the cord" and yet the studios are adamant about it because they are weary of disrupting their cable/satellite partnerships and afraid to stray from a known quantity. I think ultimately both Netflix and the studios will have their hands forced to an extent and each will make some compromises. Netflix needs more content and will eventually get it, most likely with resulting price increases and/or tiered plans. Starz wasn't going to be the driver of those compromises though, because frankly, the amount and quality of the content they provided wasn't terribly significant compared to what other potential partners can offer.

[Strilo]

I must be watching a different Netflix Streaming, because my picture quality looks pretty much as good or better than my Comcast cable...

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by kefrank

Game over in what sense? I think your oddly irrational aversion to all things streaming is clouding your ability to analyze this situation objectively.

The market is in a transition right now. The major content owners are begrudging of any business model that looks different from what they are used to. This is clearly evident in the Starz negotiations. Netflix offered them ten times more money than they got previously, but Starz also demanded Netflix go to a tiered/premium pricing model (ala cable/satellite), which Netflix refused to do. That old way of doing things is a major reason more and more consumers are "cutting the cord" and yet the studios are adamant about it because they are weary of disrupting their cable/satellite partnerships and afraid to stray from a known quantity. I think ultimately both Netflix and the studios will have their hands forced to an extent and each will make some compromises. Netflix needs more content and will eventually get it, most likely with resulting price increases and/or tiered plans. Starz wasn't going to be the driver of those compromises though, because frankly, the amount and quality of the content they provided wasn't terribly significant compared to what other potential partners can offer.

This 'cutting the cord' theory is being blown out of proportion. It really isn't very big numbers in the overall scheme of things.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Strilo

I must be watching a different Netflix Streaming, because my picture quality looks pretty much as good or better than my Comcast cable...

I wouldn't know about cable in the USA. Here in UK it is of very high standards. Way better than Netflix streaming could achieve, even five years from now. Bit rates are double figures for a start! I think your post says more about your quality of picture on cable than it does about Netflix.

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by kefrank

Game over in what sense? I think your oddly irrational aversion to all things streaming is clouding your ability to analyze this situation objectively.

The market is in a transition right now. The major content owners are begrudging of any business model that looks different from what they are used to. This is clearly evident in the Starz negotiations. Netflix offered them ten times more money than they got previously, but Starz also demanded Netflix go to a tiered/premium pricing model (ala cable/satellite), which Netflix refused to do. That old way of doing things is a major reason more and more consumers are "cutting the cord" and yet the studios are adamant about it because they are weary of disrupting their cable/satellite partnerships and afraid to stray from a known quantity. I think ultimately both Netflix and the studios will have their hands forced to an extent and each will make some compromises. Netflix needs more content and will eventually get it, most likely with resulting price increases and/or tiered plans. Starz wasn't going to be the driver of those compromises though, because frankly, the amount and quality of the content they provided wasn't terribly significant compared to what other potential partners can offer.

What Netflix offered is nowhere near close to what Starz could have lost by devaluing their content. So the "deal" really is a lot different.

The studios are also right to be concerned with Netflix, whose business model really has a very familiar pyramid structure. They tried to manipulate the market, and as far as content acquisitions are concerned, they clearly failed - hence, the continuous restrictions. With this in mind, I am confident that Netflix will very soon change their strategy to hype their Latin American expansion and declare it "success" to mask the real issue - they are a middle man that will not be allowed to dictate how the market evolves.

Contrary to what you have written, the studios are not weary of disrupting the old business model. If that was the case, they would not have explored UV. What the studios are very obviously against is having their content devalued by a middle man a.k.a Netflix, who wants to be the market, not part of it. This is the real issue.

Pro-B

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by kefrank

Game over in what sense? I think your oddly irrational aversion to all things streaming is clouding your ability to analyze this situation objectively.

don't know if his mind is clouded or not but the simple fact that Netflix stock fell wquite a bit after the starz anouncement does add some credibility to what he said. Now I think Netflix will negotiate and eventualy get them back, but the simple fact is that it is normal for customers to care about content.

The market is in a transition right now. The major content owners are begrudging of any business model that looks different from what they are used to. This is clearly evident in the Starz negotiations. Netflix offered them ten times more money than they got previously, but Starz also demanded Netflix go to a tiered/premium pricing model (ala cable/satellite), which Netflix refused to do. That old way of doing things is a major reason more and more consumers are "cutting the cord" and yet the studios are adamant about it because they are weary of disrupting their cable/satellite partnerships and afraid to stray from a known quantity. I think ultimately both Netflix and the studios will have their hands forced to an extent and each will make some compromises. Netflix needs more content and will eventually get it, most likely with resulting price increases and/or tiered plans.

I don't get your point. The studios want to be paid fairly for their property, why is Netflix wanting to make a lot of $$$$ OK while the studios and distributors not OK by you. The issue is if Joe used to buy the movie but now sais "why should I buy when I can see all the movies I want for 8$ (streaming or disk rental) then the studio is losing money on that would have been sales.

Starz wasn't going to be the driver of those compromises though, because frankly, the amount and quality of the content they provided wasn't terribly significant compared to what other potential partners can offer.

You do know Starz is more then a studio and they act as distributor as well, Netflix is not only losing TV shows that are by Starz they also include many other studios including Sony and Disney. You don't think it could affect membership if parents have to explain to their young kids that they can't see their favourite film (cars, toy story.....) because you feel like sticking with Netflix?

And what happens next? If Starz goes up roughly 10 fold will the other studios/distributors say “let’s be good Samaritans so that Netflix can line their pockets” or will they demand the same?

[Strilo]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I wouldn't know about cable in the USA. Here in UK it is of very high standards. Way better than Netflix streaming could achieve, even five years from now. Bit rates are double figures for a start! I think your post says more about your quality of picture on cable than it does about Netflix.

I think it does say something about Comcast, which is not amazing for sure. But also, the internet is faster here than it is in the UK is it not? Perhaps I am getting a better streaming experience than those overseas? Not sure. Either way, Netflix Streaming is not a replacement for Blu Ray for me. it's a replacement for TV. Being able to watch things on demand whenever I want to is too alluring, especially when the quality I directly experience is roughly equivalent.

[OrlandoEastwood]

I don't think Netflix is really turning its focus back to discs, I feel the price increase is all due to greed and now with the whole blocking the total of devices for streaming is making me think that even more. Now, I have been a Netflix customer since November. I've had my queue full since February and I've rarely had movies go "Unavailable" and all of the sudden in August, stuff was going left and right. I had about 15 titles go unavailable. And some of these titles were movies I was really wanting to see. Here's what I had go Unavailable:

Carnosaur 2
Clarissa: Part I
Clarissa: Part II
Demons 3: The Ogre
Grindhouse Experience Vol 2 Disc 1
Grindhouse Experience Vol 2 Disc 2
Grindhouse Experience Vol 2 Disc 3
Grindhouse Experience Vol 2 Disc 4
Grindhouse Experience Vol 2 Disc 5
Love Scenes
Miranda
MST3K: Hellcats
MST3K: Mitchell
Temptation of Eve: A Good Wife
Virgin Witch

I was seriously losing my s**t over this. I've never had that many titles going out in a month. Never. And Demons 3 I had in my queue waiting for it since I started my account in November.

[Stoudman]

All that really needs to be said about Netflix is the following:

When you could pay $50 or more for Cable or Satellite Television, $8 a month for literally THE SAME content ON DEMAND in about the same quality as you'll find with even the best cable/satellite provider is the best deal in town.

You can claim up and down that they've mistreated you as a customer and you'd be 100% correct. It doesn't change the fact that their streaming service is the best game in town when it comes to instant streaming. Oh, you had poor stream quality? Well, sadly that isn't the fault of Netflix, it's your ISP. I can't tell you how many times I have to explain this to people, but they still don't seem to get it. If you have a crappy ISP, the PQ of the stream is going to be undeniably worse. Luckily, I have a damn good ISP which rarely ever gives me any trouble whatsoever. The HD content is HD, the SD content is SD, I rarely ever have an issue with poor PQ due to internet issues.

I really do look at their streaming service as a replacement for cable/satellite, because most of the stuff you can or will find that is worth watching on TV nowadays is actually on Netflix. If I had to choose between missing the random premieres that I actually give a damn about (The Walking Dead....yeah, I've got nothing else) and paying, ultimately, $40 less per month, I'd cancel my cable and go with Netflix, even if their price hike was absolutely ridiculous.

Oh, and don't get me wrong -- it was completely uncalled for. You knew as a company that is trying to make money that they would pull something like this eventually, but the way they did it was just underhanded and greedy. They didn't come out and admit that they were raising prices again, they just flat out said "we're separating the services." That's a load of BS and I think we all know it. Still, what did I do? What any sane individual would do:

I dropped the disc rentals.

I never get around to watching them anymore, so why even pay for something I rarely ever use? Their blu-ray rentals are often chopped up, inferior editions of whatever the film may be, so why even bother? If I want a DVD or Blu-ray, I'll pay $5-10 and buy one. I'd rather spend the $5-10 a month that these rentals cost on actually owning something than to get rentals.

That being said, their Instant Watch service really has become an amazing resource. No, it doesn't offer the quality of a blu-ray and in some cases doesn't even offer the quality of a DVD, but the sheer amount of content is absolutely mind blowing. If you can't find enough content to fill up your queue and leave you begging for more room on said list, you're simply too picky. Period. In fact, I have to believe that I would actually pay Netflix even more for a bigger and better queue. Just the fact that I can watch any of these shows or movies any time I want and literally have them right at my fingertips within seconds is worth the price.

Sure, you could download them legally elsewhere or buy them all on blu-ray/dvd, but believe it or not there are actually some people out there that can't afford such luxuries. I really don't see where the argument makes sense that the quality of the content isn't good enough to justify the price. It's more than good enough, it's downright awesome. All this just reminds me of the recent debacle over Starz Play getting dumped. WHO THE HELL CARES?!

All of the Starz Play content was in SD, most of it in FULL SCREEN. I don't want to watch a new movie like TOY STORY 3 in SD and in FULL SCREEN. Who the hell would? It's pathetic. The loss of movies like this and several other mediocre "recent" Hollywood movies isn't a loss at all. I think that's where the divide really takes place: If you're the type of brain dead moron who enjoys that Hollywood crap, of course you're going to hate the offerings on Netflix Instant Watch. Of course the loss of Starz will be a personal insult to you. But of course, you're also a brain dead idiot, so who the hell respects your opinion in the first place?

I'm sorry, I know this last bit isn't even in the slightest a valid form of argumentation but rather an insult, but it's about time somebody came forward and said it. There's plenty on NIW to keep any film fan happy. The following is a random smattering from my queue:

Memento, The Fighter, Winter's Bone, Ricky, Rubber, The Exorcist, From Dusk Till Dawn, Pulp Fiction, Reservoir Dogs, Clerks, 8 1/2, Creature from the Black Lagoon, Poltergeist, The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari, Stagecoach, Moulin Rouge, Gone With The Wind, The Third Man, The 39 Steps.

"Oh, but some of those are Public Domain." Yeah, but they're all in much better shape than you'll find in Public Domain. Oh, and none of them are "Starz Play" exclusives. Yeah, I think Netflix can survive without Starz. Especially considering that in a year or two they're going to have Dreamworks bringing new content to their IW lineup. Yeah, Starz can just go eff themselves, honestly. Why would they offer premium content in SD and FS? Because they want people to watch their content on their CHANNEL, not on Netflix. They were using NIW as a tool to gain more subscribers in the most nefarious of ways. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Oh, and what of all the television content on NIW? Shall I list that? I just recently watched the entire series of Trailer Park Boys and the first season of ReBoot on there. Need I say more?

I still gladly pay for Netflix Instant Watch for two reasons:

1. Convenience.

2. Selection.

If you don't like the selection, you aren't digging far enough. If you don't think the convenience is worth it, you're probably crazy enough to pay far too much for Cable/Satellite. I really don't know what else to say. Talk as much trash as you want to about their services, but they are the best in the game and they are only getting better. Like I said, I agree that their price increases are ridiculous, but any other complaint is most likely on you and not really their fault or their problem.

[Steedeel]

Couldn't agree less. I think people are trying to convince themselves how great it is because it is cheap. Apparently the bit-rates go as high as 6mbps!!!!!! for 1080p on the PS3. Do you realize (in my opinion) how pathetic that is for full HD? Now if Netflix could offer 10-15 mbps you might have a point about the quality. The worry is that all the casual film watchers will adopt this technology and the likes of myself who have invested fortunes in Home Cinema gear and blurays will not have a HD source in the future (i don't count 6mbps as HD) Everyone who loves best quality HD should not be buying into Netflix and companies like them in my opinion. Now if you are happy with that future, i would question why you are a member of bluray forum in the first place. Make no doubt about it, this technology is intended to replace bluray, and if they cannot get somewhere close to bluray by the time discs are obsolete i (and many more like me) are going to be mightily pissed off! As i have said before, streaming is a backwards technology, fans of HQ should not embrace it.

[kefrank]

I think I must not have communicated very well in my post, because things are being inferred that I did not intend...

Originally Posted by Anthony P

don't know if his mind is clouded or not but the simple fact that Netflix stock fell wquite a bit after the starz anouncement does add some credibility to what he said. Now I think Netflix will negotiate and eventualy get them back, but the simple fact is that it is normal for customers to care about content.

I guess it depends on what he meant by "game over for Netflix." That suggests to me that Netflix would be on the verge of folding as a company. They are very far from that point, regardless of some stock volatility.

I don't get your point. The studios want to be paid fairly for their property, why is Netflix wanting to make a lot of $$$$ OK while the studios and distributors not OK by you.

I never stated that it's ok for Netflix to make money and not for the studios or distributors to make money and did not intend to even intimate such a thing. My point is simply that Netflix is gaining streaming subscribers and it has put the content owners/distributors on edge, because they have not figured out the right balance that will allow everyone to make money. That's exactly why I think we'll see all sides, including Netflix, making compromises eventually.

The issue is if Joe used to buy the movie but now sais "why should I buy when I can see all the movies I want for 8$ (streaming or disk rental) then the studio is losing money on that would have been sales.

I think that's a significant oversimplification of the issue.

You do know Starz is more then a studio and they act as distributor as well, Netflix is not only losing TV shows that are by Starz they also include many other studios including Sony and Disney. You don't think it could affect membership if parents have to explain to their young kids that they can't see their favourite film (cars, toy story.....) because you feel like sticking with Netflix?

My point was that the practical amount and quality of content that Netflix streaming was actually getting from Starz was not enough to drive them to change their business model just yet. Of course, some subscribers will be affected, but I doubt it will make any kind of significant dent in their user base in the short term. Again, ultimately I think Netflix will adjust their model to some extent and content owners/distributors will adjust their licensing demands.

[Steedeel]

I think the industry is starting to discover that Smart tv/iptv simply is not working. It may come down to the streaming services being squeezed out altogether and i for one could not be happier!

[Uniquely]

Originally Posted by Stoudman

I dropped the disc rentals.

I never get around to watching them anymore, so why even pay for something I rarely ever use?

I have totally forgotten to drop the disc rentals. I have literally had the same Netflix disc sitting on my shelf for over eight months now. OTOH hand, I tend to stream at least 2-3 times a week. Usually documentaries and indie flicks that you just can't catch on cable and will never ever come to blu-ray.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I think the industry is starting to discover that Smart tv/iptv simply is not working. It may come down to the streaming services being squeezed out altogether and i for one could not be happier!

You act as if blu-ray has taken over the home media market, which it hasn't. Not even close. Maybe 20%, so that would be 4/5 still using dvd as a medium...and, to them, streaming is phenominal.
Please understand that BD was never meant to replace dvd, not by a long shot. That's performed so well under, arguably, tough circumstances(rival format, poor US economy, etc) probably far exceded many predictions for the format.
Again I'll point you to LD which lasted a good 20 years, while not being the "dominant format...instead the niche format.
So please, stop posting you're whinings about the demise of BD at the hands of streaming when we are not even close to such a potential outcome...if it happens at all.
Also understand that technology, by definition, will advance forward(meaning better)...not retreat(meaning worse). Especially for home media.
Good Lord, man, use your brain and let history be your guide.
You post the same crybaby remarks on several threads, and numerous people have tried(myself included) to set your mind at ease, but it's like you don't want to listen! How much of a Higher Power do you need to set things straight? God? Start praying to Him, and maybe he'll bring forth Divine Intervention on all things Home Media and what the future holds for Streaming.
Until then, keep buying your BD's and enjoy them! Stop watching the sky to fall all the time, or it might just do that!