Netflix Turns Focus Back to Disc

[slick1ru2]

Originally Posted by wormraper

well back on topic to streaming video like Netflix. it makes me giggle to see people complaining about physical media going away anytime soon. with caps like these people are no longer really gonna be in a rush to download and watch gigs upon gigs of streaming data when their ISP's are jumping down their throats.

my ISP just announced that they are doing a 250 gig soft cap starting in February UNLESS (get this) you upgrade to their business class

250 gigs on higher speeds cap and 150 gigs on 1.5 mpbs class. and of course if you get their digital prism tv service THAT won't count towards your bandwidth whatsoever (surprise surprise)... seriously disgusting. at least my wife's work pays for our internet due to her working at home. I am going to be dropping them though come february out of principal though, I refuse to suppost a company that doesn't give unlimited bandwidth (I expect at a bare minimum to have my pipeline to run 24/7 at whatever it's max bandwidth is rated, anything less in unacceptable)

My unlimited is business class. Priority packets, virtually no down time, 24 hr service, same price, AV software for up to 25 computers, etc etc... No brainer. Even includes basic TV and Microsoft Cloud services if I wanted it.

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

My unlimited is business class. Priority packets, virtually no down time, 24 hr service, same price, AV software for up to 25 computers, etc etc... No brainer. Even includes basic TV and Microsoft Cloud services if I wanted it.


[youtube]xkTmVBaEq7M&[/youtube]

They don't OFFER business class in my area typical

and if I did, I'd pay $90 for 7 megabit connection.

I pay $65 for a 12 megabit connection right now

I checked the surrounding areas that get high end business lines and for a 12 meg fiber business line it's like $130 a month

[slick1ru2]

Originally Posted by wormraper

They don't OFFER business class in my area typical

and if I did, I pay $90 for 7 megabit connection.

I pay $65 for a 12 megabit connection right now

I checked the surrounding areas that get high end business lines and for a 12 meg fiber business line it's like $130 a month

That's what I pay, $65 for a 12/2 connection. The lowest I actually get 36/6 though. Sometimes I get MUCH higher like this AM.



Cleared the cache and tried a server I never use to confirm.

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

That's what I pay, $65 for a 12/2 connection. The lowest I actually get 36/6 though. Sometimes I get MUCH higher like this AM.



Cleared the cache and tried a server I never use to confirm.

interesting. Comcast business gives you that. whelp if no caps I'll switch to that if it's available in my area. I get 12/1 standard and they actually cut me off at 12megs. I physically can't get any faster even at off hours.

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by wormraper

oh I understand, I agree with you here. manual labor is now relegated to immigrants or people who haven't graduated highschool. (or highschool at the most). as for how much they earn if they don't finish highschool??? it's almost impossible to get anything above working at mcdonald's if you don't finish high school and not much above retail or phone support if you don't get a college degree. Manual labor otherwise (and that's not much more than $20,000 -25,000 a year.

I feel sorry for a lot of average people who live there then, from your description it sounds like some people are just viewed as scraps when they are just doing regular everyday jobs. Someone needs to be garbage man, so why should they earn considerable less than everybody else for it. Too me it's sounds like workers in some industries there are grossly under paid and under valued, it almost sounds as bad as China, not quite though. I feel based on our conversation that we have a socitey here that gives people more of a fair go and equally opportunity compared to there. Sure there are plenty of jobs that do and should require a degree (and the most qualified person should get the job), but it's kind of ridiculous if your society has got to the point where you need a certificate to do anything that's considered to be worthwhile (a decent white collar job), like simply just working in an office. If you want to be a laywer obviously you need the qualifications, but you certainly shouldn't need to go to college to get qualifications for something as simply as being a lawyers assistant, that's absurd.

There are smart people in this world and there are dumb people, but most people just fall somewhere in the middle and are only ever going to get an average job, so why do you need to go to college for that. Too me it sounds like companies there don't want to invest any money or take the responsibility of training anyone themselves, which is sad imo. A high school drop out or someone who didn't go to college could be the best employee in the world if a little effort is put in by companies (and the individual) to train and develop them, they can become a great asset if given the opportunity. They are still people, and if they are willing to work as hard as anyone else then shouldn't they be given a go to prove what they can do?

Don't get wrong about technology, we use it in similar ways (like using iPods at the gym), but we don't treat it as the be all and end all of our society though. People here aren't any less advantaged if they choose to read a book from the library instead of on their Ipad, or choose to go into a bank branch instead of banking online etc etc. Plenty of people can earn great money and get by easily without computers and the Internet here if they choose to, and a lot do just that.

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

I feel sorry for a lot of average people who live there then, from your description it sounds like some people are just viewed as scraps when they are just doing regular everyday jobs. Someone needs to be garbage man. Too me it's sounds like workers in some industries are grossly under paid and valued, it almost sounds as bad as China, not quite though. I feel based on our conversation that we have a socitey here that gives people more of a fair go and equally opportunity compared to there. Sure there are plenty of jobs that do and should require a degree (and the most qualified person for should get the job), but it's kind of ridiculous if your society has got to the point where you need a certificate to do anything that's considered to be worthwhile (a decent white collar job), like simply just working in an office. If you want to be a laywer obviously you need the qualifications, but you certainly shouldn't need to go to college to get qualifications for something as simply as being a lawyers assistant, that's absurd.

There are smart people in this world and there are dumb people, but most people just fall somewhere in the middle and are only ever going to get an average job, so why do you need to go to college for that. Too me it sounds like companies there don't want to invest any money or take the responsibility of training anyone themselves, which is sad imo. A high school drop out or someone who didn't go to college could be the best employee in the world if a little effort is put in by companies (and them) to train and develop them, they can become a great asset if given the opportunity. They are still people, and if they are willing to work as hard as anyone else then shouldn't be given a go to prove what they can do?

Don't get wrong about technology, we use it in similar ways (like using iPods at the gym), but we don't treat it as the be all and end all of our society though. People here aren't any less advantaged if they choose to read a book from the library instead of on their Ipad, or choose to go into a bank branch instead of banking online etc etc. Plenty of people can earn great money and get by easily without computers and the Internet here if they choose to.

again, I agree with most of your points

however it's less that they don't want to train you as much as they use going to school as yardstick for how hard you want something, basically it's used to say "hey I went to school for this many years and put this much effort into it" and that's used as a yardstick for employers to gauge how much you want a job, basically the more schooling you go for the more "stick to it iveness" you've got making you a more desirable candidate. of course you don't NEED a degree to get a decent job, like office work, but office work alone is considered plebian over here. (and office work I mean like secretary or data entry specialist... other office work like HR or anything like that requires a specialized degree to even be considered)

as for the "scraps" comment... I agree wholeheartedly, lots of jobs are looked down as "ewwwww I have to do something like THAT!!!!", hell my wife's work is looked down upon as plebian and she works as a analyst for a tech company (and tech support depending on the time of year) and we get paid to live decently. you can make solid money in the blue collar industry, you basically need to own your own business or be a manager though (or be highly specialized like a high end welder or something)

as for given a fair shake. lets put it this way. to do some welding work on a HUGE bridge project over on the east coast our Govt needed 200 welders to work for a 2 year project on this. instead of hiring our own laborers they hired the Chinese to do it because it saved them 2/3 cost

and lastly, it literally is nearly impossible to run a business without extensive computer use. that is no joke, no lie, no exaggeration. without instantaneous data communication you literally will go bankrupt within a year (unless you're selling Avon or something like that ). Our society is literally dependent on instantaneous transactions/communication etc. when someone doesn't provided they are literally dumped and customers move on to the next business who CAN provide it

[slick1ru2]

Originally Posted by wormraper

interesting. Comcast business gives you that. whelp if no caps I'll switch to that if it's available in my area. I get 12/1 standard and they actually cut me off at 12megs. I physically can't get any faster even at off hours.

Go to http://www.broadbandreports.com and you see what kind of service people are getting from their providers in any given area.

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

Go to http://www.broadbandreports.com and you see what kind of service people are getting from their providers in any given area.

yeah, I use that. unfortunately for Qwest/Century link they physically lock your connection to whatever you have signed up for. (I get full bandwith luckily), for comcast I could get QUITE a bit more. I'm most likely going to switch to comcast business so as not to support Centurylink's crap

and for those who like to justify caps and how us bandwidth "hogs" need to be punished

read this

http://www.broadbandreports.com/show...-a-Myth-117230

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by wormraper

again, I agree with most of your points

however it's less that they don't want to train you as much as they use going to school as yardstick for how hard you want something, basically it's used to say "hey I went to school for this many years and put this much effort into it" and that's used as a yardstick for employers to gauge how much you want a job, basically the more schooling you go for the more "stick to it iveness" you've got making you a more desirable candidate. of course you don't NEED a degree to get a decent job, like office work, but office work alone is considered plebian over here. (and office work I mean like secretary or data entry specialist... other office work like HR or anything like that requires a specialized degree to even be considered)

as for the "scraps" comment... I agree wholeheartedly, lots of jobs are looked down as "ewwwww I have to do something like THAT!!!!", hell my wife's work is looked down upon as plebian and she works as a analyst for a tech company (and tech support depending on the time of year) and we get paid to live decently. you can make solid money in the blue collar industry, you basically need to own your own business or be a manager though (or be highly specialized like a high end welder or something)

as for given a fair shake. lets put it this way. to do some welding work on a HUGE bridge project over on the east coast our Govt needed 200 welders to work for a 2 year project on this. instead of hiring our own laborers they hired the Chinese to do it because it saved them 2/3 cost

and lastly, it literally is nearly impossible to run a business without extensive computer use. that is no joke, no lie, no exaggeration. without instantaneous data communication you literally will go bankrupt within a year (unless you're selling Avon or something like that ). Our society is literally dependent on instantaneous transactions/communication etc. when someone doesn't provided they are literally dumped and customers move on to the next business who CAN provide it

If you run your own business and you're the only employee (you work for yourself, you're your own boss) then you don't need a computer. Plenty of people like that still use book work to keep tabs on everything, manually writing everything down. If you are organized and have a system it's easy.

Also how does anyone get good quality work done on their homes if everyone is always hiring unqualified Mexicans who work for peanuts? A good proper qualified tradesman here has to pretty much study as hard as someone who wants to be an accountant. I wouldn't want some idiot to build me a home who learnt from watching DIY tv shows.

Look I understand everything you are saying, I just think it's a little over the top that's all, and I'm glad things here aren't quite like that. Anyway I think it's time to stop and let this thread get back on topic .

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

If you run your own business and you're the only employee (you work for yourself, you're your own boss) then you don't need a computer. Plenty of people like that still use book work to keep tabs on everything, manually writing everything down. If you are organized and have a system it's easy.

oh it can be done on certain industries. but like I said, unless you offer digital payments or internet quotes many many consumers will just pass you by because they are not willing to wait or deal with the hastle of writing checks or not get a quote in the email. (not joking)

Also how does anyone get good quality work done on their homes if everyone is always hiring unqualified Mexicans who work for peanuts? A good proper qualified tradesman here has to pretty much study as hard as someone who wants to be an accountant. I wouldn't want some idiot to build me a home who learnt from watching DIY tv shows.

Rarely, good quality people are out there, just one out of every 15 contractors is worth the money. mostly it's good quality management while the laborers they hire are low end like immigrants or highschool dropouts.

Look I understand everything you are saying, I just think it's a little over the top that's all, and I'm glad things here aren't quite like that. Anyway I think it's time to stop and let this thread get back on topic .

get back on topic??!!! *gasp, that would be against blu-ray.com etiquette

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by wormraper

ppv is a whole nother ball game, it's a niche area of TV (only fools waste that kinda money IMO)

I don’t watch PPV, I agree it is a waste of money, but I think calling such people fools is exaggerated. They just value the convenience more then the money. I could just as easily say only a fool streams video when a BD offers a much more pleasant experience.

right, web browsing is one thing, but the net is SOOOOO much more than web browsing. my wife ups and downloads 20-30 gigs of test clients for her software work every day, linux work eats up a TON of that etc... web browsing is only a very small portion of what the net is used for anymore. file land data transfer is really the thing now.

and as for 24/7 naw, I don't think It should run 24/7. I only run my connection at max around 16-17 hours per day

I don’t see where I said it is only for browsing. The example I gave had nothing to do with it. Let’s put it simply, Peter runs a 10 mbps link full blast 16h a day Paul runs a 20mbps link full blast 8h a day, Mary runs a 40mbps link full blast for 3h and an other 4h that averages at 10mbps (surfing, video, phone…..), they all transfer the same amount of data. If you have to transfer a 20GB file, the size won’t change if you have a 10,20 or 40mbps link just the amount of time that it will take.

Exactly, that's another reason it's so horrible. download rates and filesizes have increased DRASTICALLY since 2008 and their cap is still the same. my average back in 2008 was 300 gigs a month. I'm at over 500 right now

and the ISP needed to upgrade the infrastructure and I have to pay for it , how that fair? Shouldn’t it be because you want a lot more GB a month that you pay for the changes needed for them to offer it?

Not my fault if you use less, EVERY industry subsidizes the heavier users.

Name one

the tv and cable industry already does that. (unless you know of a way of only purchasing 3-5 channels at one time without getting all the other crap)

no you want more speciality channels which need more cable BW the person that orders them pays for it. What you are missing is if someone watches 1h of standard cable or 100h of standard cable it does not cost a cent of difference to the cable provider because the equipment needs to be on for that one person watching TV. If they add more channels so that you can watch 10h instead of 1h then it does cost them more and they charge you more. That is also why not all speciality channels cost the same. The more popular ones cost less because the price is distributed by more users while the more niche ones cost more. No one said “ there is an issue with the number of hours someone spends on the internet”, it is “ being an ever bigger BW hog means the Telco’s need to spend lots of money upgrading their network and so it is fair that you guys have to pay a proportional part of tht cost instead of it being evenly split”


I am a solid believer that limited internet will destroy the web in the way we know it today. [/quote]
why? That makes no sense what so ever. I have a cap and it is not even close to being an issue. How can it destroy the internet?

as you stated, At&T hasn't changed their cap in 3 + years.....

it was Comcast. AT&T introduced a cap this year

and still they charge the same etc in a world where the filesizes have increased drastically.

think about it. You have a bucket, it is a fixed size, if you want to be able to hold more water you either need to replace it with a bigger bucket or you need to get more buckets, once a bucket is full it is full. The same here, if the amount of data transported is and has been increasing dramatically it means the Telcos need to be increasing theyir network dramatically, how do you want your price to go down when in essence every few years everything needs to be much greater because demand hads increased dramatically?

I can easily see a DRASTIC drop in internet usage and people dropping to the bare minimum or just leeching off of someone else.

it won’t happen, but what is wrong with that? How is being wasteful any good for anyone?

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by wormraper

and for those who like to justify caps and how us bandwidth "hogs" need to be punished

read this

http://www.broadbandreports.com/show...-a-Myth-117230

so someone with an agenda takes a useless inconsequential report looking at one ISP and then dismisses the facts and goes with the pre-drawn conclusion? what's new?

I can also find a few articles based on reports stating BD is doomed and HD-DVD is the right choice.

[slick1ru2]

Even Google is trying to fight the upcoming censorship bill.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011...-websites-sopa

Opponents of a bill designed to protect the rights of film companies and music labels say it could be perverted to censor the Internet in the United States...

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

Even Google is trying to fight the upcoming censorship bill.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011...-websites-sopa

lol, yeah Google and everyone else who reads this realizes what it is. purge heavy handed censorship

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

Even Google is trying to fight the upcoming censorship bill.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011...-websites-sopa

Of course they will - because they are the ones who want to be the censors.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11876443

Pro-B

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

I don’t watch PPV, I agree it is a waste of money, but I think calling such people fools is exaggerated. They just value the convenience more then the money. I could just as easily say only a fool streams video when a BD offers a much more pleasant experience.



I don’t see where I said it is only for browsing. The example I gave had nothing to do with it. Let’s put it simply, Peter runs a 10 mbps link full blast 16h a day Paul runs a 20mbps link full blast 8h a day, Mary runs a 40mbps link full blast for 3h and an other 4h that averages at 10mbps (surfing, video, phone…..), they all transfer the same amount of data. If you have to transfer a 20GB file, the size won’t change if you have a 10,20 or 40mbps link just the amount of time that it will take.

Correct, but what is limiting me from breaking into the Terabyte range is not the amount of data ( I have WAY more data I'm interested in) but rather that my pipeline can't go any faster to accommodate said date


and the ISP needed to upgrade the infrastructure and I have to pay for it , how that fair? Shouldn’t it be because you want a lot more GB a month that you pay for the changes needed for them to offer it?

and infrastructure's haven't been upgraded in the past??? I mean we've had the same backbones for the last 20-30 years and just NOW we're limiting them out??? no, they've had to upgrade in the past and that's been built into our monthly prices. Just recently it's become the fad to find new ways to milk the consumer

Name one
no you want more speciality channels which need more cable BW the person that orders them pays for it. What you are missing is if someone watches 1h of standard cable or 100h of standard cable it does not cost a cent of difference to the cable provider because the equipment needs to be on for that one person watching TV. If they add more channels so that you can watch 10h instead of 1h then it does cost them more and they charge you more. That is also why not all speciality channels cost the same. The more popular ones cost less because the price is distributed by more users while the more niche ones cost more. No one said “ there is an issue with the number of hours someone spends on the internet”, it is “ being an ever bigger BW hog means the Telco’s need to spend lots of money upgrading their network and so it is fair that you guys have to pay a proportional part of tht cost instead of it being evenly split”

If someone uses 1 hour of internet or 100 hours of internet/downloading it doesn't cost them anything. that bandwidth is already sitting there in reserve on the backbone. doesn't make a difference. only time they need to upgrade is when they have more customers than their backbone can support and they need to upgrade. As for the cable comparison, it's off. we do that already, it's called Tiered internet. faster speeds means more data can be downloaded. same as cable tv. less channels less price, more premium channels, more price. less speed = less data = less price. More speed = more data = more price. end of story.

I am a solid believer that limited internet will destroy the web in the way we know it today.
why? That makes no sense what so ever. I have a cap and it is not even close to being an issue. How can it destroy the internet?

Because you're not the only user on the internet

it was Comcast. AT&T introduced a cap this year


think about it. You have a bucket, it is a fixed size, if you want to be able to hold more water you either need to replace it with a bigger bucket or you need to get more buckets, once a bucket is full it is full. The same here, if the amount of data transported is and has been increasing dramatically it means the Telcos need to be increasing theyir network dramatically, how do you want your price to go down when in essence every few years everything needs to be much greater because demand hads increased dramatically?

As stated above, the bucket has ALWAYS needed to be replaced, it's built into the monthly fees (or rate hikes etc)... nothing new. They've just found new ways to soak us.

it won’t happen, but what is wrong with that? How is being wasteful any good for anyone?


Wasteful??? how is using a resource that is perfectly "renewable" so to speak wasteful??? that bandwidth is sitting their waiting to be used. no less bandwidth is available to us if we all start "conserving" not even comparing apple to fruit

responses in bold

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by wormraper

Correct, but what is limiting me from breaking into the Terabyte range is not the amount of data ( I have WAY more data I'm interested in) but rather that my pipeline can't go any faster to accommodate said date

actually isn't the limiting factor that you only do it 16h a day? and if you want faster links I am sure your ISP offers that as well.

and infrastructure's haven't been upgraded in the past??? I mean we've had the same backbones for the last 20-30 years and just NOW we're limiting them out??? no, they've had to upgrade in the past and that's been built into our monthly prices. Just recently it's become the fad to find new ways to milk the consumer

the infrastructure is updated on a daily bases if it was not you would be complaining a hell of a lot more. The difference is does the ISP spend X$ a day or 10X$ a day and if it is 10X$ a day then they need more money then if it is X$. The other big difference is that until recently ISP upgrades where done at the expense of large corporate accounts. Because Prime time for internet used to be during office hours, and when a company needed to upgrade their link (maybe because they decided to backup to an other location, maybe because some internal app went web enabled, maybe some servers got centralized .....) the telcos past the cost on to them, but now consumer usage growth is way out of proportion to large corporate accounts growth and so if the corporate client does not go from X speed to 2X speed he obviously won't be paying a lot more. That is why prime time for internet usage moved from daytime and early AM to prime time.

If someone uses 1 hour of internet or 100 hours of internet/downloading it doesn't cost them anything

yes it does cost them, if your TV is off does it use electricity? is it less than when it is on? both of those are yes because even when it is off it is still working if it is plugged in
If your PC is on and you are working on it does it use more electricity then if it is in sleep mode? Yes.

Same here, the amount of electricity used depends on the work used. So yes if you DL/UL 1GB of data it costs less to the ISP then if you do 100GB of data. It also makes more sense to discuss GB instead of hours because 100 hours of reading a forum is not anywhere near the same as 100 hours of watching youtube video and that is no where near the same as watching Netflix at the best quality. and to take an extreme case, let's say I open a website today (a page on Blu-ray.com for the sake of argument). Go away and come back on Monday and continue reading, I would have had my browser open for over 100h, and in a way had over 100h on the internet but I would not have done anything more then really a few seconds of data transfer.

less speed = less data = less price. More speed = more data = more price. end of story.

do you agree that you said you have a ~10mbps link and do ~500GB a month?
I ahave a ~30mbps link and I am at <100GB a month. isn't 30mbps>10mbps? isn't 100GB<500GB how can your equations make sense when there is a contradiction in what you said? More data is more data and more speed is more speed the two are not disjointed but they are not related either.

Because you're not the only user on the internet

I never said I was, now can you please explain how caps will destroy the Internet?

As stated above, the bucket has ALWAYS needed to be replaced, it's built into the monthly fees (or rate hikes etc)... nothing new. They've just found new ways to soak us.

the issue is that you are missing the forest for the trees. Yes the bucket has always needed replacing and truth is it will always need replacing (at least for any reasonable foreseeable future). The problem is how much does it cost to replace the basket and who will pay for it. You think we should all be paying more for our internet connection and sharing the cost, I think the people that want more should pay more.

Wasteful??? how is using a resource that is perfectly "renewable" so to speak wasteful??? that bandwidth is sitting their waiting to be used. no less bandwidth is available to us if we all start "conserving" not even comparing apple to fruit

that BW is not sitting there waiting to be used, if that was anywhere near the truth we would not be having this discussion. Like you said several times and I agree with you Telcos are constantly upgrading the infrastructure in order to meet demand. Needing to upgrade means it is not there or that need would not exist. You have new cabling that needs to be spread out you have perfectly good equipment that is only a few years old decommissioned to be replaced..... How is that not wasteful when the only reason that needs to be done is so that you can say "hey I use 1TB a month and not 500GB that was so 2011"

[wormraper]

sigh, you're just not getting it. I'm not going to argue anymore. you can believe what you want.

we obviously have different economic points of view and while I respect that I obviously disagree very strongly. soooo instead of going around in circles I'm just going to end this

my only last comment is if you don't believe Cable TV is subsidized by EVERYONE ... then you obviously know nothing about the TV industry. sorry, I'm an economics and business industrial major. believe me Cable TV was the PICTURE child of Subsidization lectures.

[arcadeforest]

Well after many years of having NetFlix I've finally cut the cord on having discs sent to me. I've kept the streaming service for the kids because they do use it quite a bit and I have enjoyed watching Star Trek, Black Adder, Red Dwarf, etc. It was not totally a money issue - the disc service has really gone down hill over the last year with titles not being available (and when they are sitting in que for weeks if not months waiting for a copy). At $1.50 I would rather hit RedBox for new releases I would rather try before buying.

Since I'm not paying an additional $16 on the 15th I guess I can go get another bluray this weekend .

[slick1ru2]

And that isn't surprising at all because they are getting away from disc rentals and putting all their money into streaming rights and expansion. They just added Goldeneye, Tomorrow Never Dies and one of the other Brosnan Bonds. The first two aren't out on BD so this is a way to see them in HD.