List of UHDs that contain HDR10+

[Fendergopher]

As long as any given base HDR10 encode isn't goofed I couldn't care less whether a disc has Dolby Vision or HDR10+ on it, to be honest. I can see the use for it depending on the display, but I also get the impression that there's nothing technically stopping a HDR10 encode from looking just as good as a DV/10+ one if handled properly, bad tonemapping notwithstanding.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Fendergopher

As long as any given base HDR10 encode isn't goofed I couldn't care less whether a disc has Dolby Vision or HDR10+ on it, to be honest. I can see the use for it depending on the display, but I also get the impression that there's nothing technically stopping a HDR10 encode from looking just as good as a DV/10+ one if handled properly, bad tonemapping notwithstanding.

You're absolutely right on that front. Each format uses the exact same transfer function (The Dolby-created Perceptual Quantiser) and if you had a theoretical TV that had 100% of DCI-P3 volume and hit 4000 nits peak then it would literally have no need for any dynamic metadata on 99% of the currently available content (as borne out by Dolby's own presentation here: the closer the target gets to the source, the more the metadata is dialled back:

[Show spoiler]

When it comes to + there's literally no difference between the actual HDR10 master either way, all you're doing with + is having an extra suite of metadata appended to the HDR10 signal to tell the TV how to map it betterer. That's it. I've seen some webshites say things like "HDR10+ now allows for 4000 nit HDR10!" but that's preposterous, Warners and Sony have been mastering HDR10 in 4000-nit encodes from the very start.

Dolby's approach has longer-term benefits like 12-bit encodes for the time when we finally move to 12-bit direct view displays, as well as their superior HDR processing in general which cuts down on banding even with a 10-bit HDR source uprezzed into Dolby 12-bit, but even so: on my TV (which already has 14-bit processing) the difference between DV and 'static' HDR10 isn't night and day. I think the DV has slightly more transparency to the source in terms of how light and shade should balance out but could I pick them apart in a 'blind' test? I dunno.

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by gkolb

HDR10+ is just Samsung being Samsung.

They don't want to pay a tithe to Dolby, whether their process is or isn't better than Dolby's.

For smaller content producers who can't afford the Dolby fees, hdr10+ gives them a cheaper option. Dolby requires an entire system chain where's hdr10+ I believe does not.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by ray0414

For smaller content producers who can't afford the Dolby fees, hdr10+ gives them a cheaper option. Dolby requires an entire system chain where's hdr10+ I believe does not.

Ironically enough, Dolby Vision itself is starting to become more democratised because colourists no longer need a hardware content mapping unit (CMU), it can be done in software and it's actually included as standard in the paid version of Da Vinci Resolve! So if you have that, you're now 'Dolby Vision capable'. It does have some caveats in that it only allows access to Level 1 dynamic metadata, which is the first automated metadata pass that all home Dolby Vision content goes through in order to generate a base metadata file from the final graded HDR master. But if the user wants to enable the Level 2 dynamic metadata which allows for a variety of adjustable parameters then they must pay for the full DV licence.

Typical Dolby, really. First they give out the PQ EOTF for free to get the kids hooked on HDR10 and have them coming back for that real DV shit, and now they're doing the same with DV mastering itself. Crafty bastards.

[Noremac Mij]

I’ll gladly give my money to Dolby and pay whatever fees DV requires.

[TitusTroy]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

They are competing dynamic metadata systems. Some studios/TVs will use one, some the other. Either way every UHD disc has the base HDR 10 layer and plays on every player/TV, and that base layer should look great on a competent TV, which is why most people agree it's not a format war.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It's not a format war when every player can still get a base HDR signal out of either disc, and bear in mind that all but one of the major studios is grading HDR at source with Dolby Vision. We may not get the DV version on disc but make no mistake, DV is firmly entrenched at the mastering level

but do you think they will be able to co-exist or will one have to become the defacto HDR standard?

my LG C7 doesn't officially support HDR10+ but has a sort of workaround where setting Dynamic Contrast to Low sort of has the same effect...will this be 95% the same as native HDR10+

[Geoff D]

There is a de facto standard. It's called HDR10. Everything else - at least as far as UHD Blu-ray's optional formats are concerned - is a 'premium' enhancement built around that core HDR10 deliverable.

[TitusTroy]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

There is a de facto standard. It's called HDR10. Everything else - at least as far as UHD Blu-ray's optional formats are concerned - is a 'premium' enhancement built around that core HDR10 deliverable.

I think that was the case when it was just HDR10 and Dolby Vision...but with the introduction of HDR10+ it sounds like a direct competitor to DV...I don't see both HDR10+ and DV being able to co-exist...manufacturers such as Panasonic, LG etc are already taking sides...sure sounds like a format war to me

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

You're absolutely right on that front. Each format uses the exact same transfer function (The Dolby-created Perceptual Quantiser) and if you had a theoretical TV that had 100% of DCI-P3 volume and hit 4000 nits peak then it would literally have no need for any dynamic metadata on 99% of the currently available content (as borne out by Dolby's own presentation here: the closer the target gets to the source, the more the metadata is dialled back:

[Show spoiler]

When it comes to + there's literally no difference between the actual HDR10 master either way, all you're doing with + is having an extra suite of metadata appended to the HDR10 signal to tell the TV how to map it betterer. That's it. I've seen some webshites say things like "HDR10+ now allows for 4000 nit HDR10!" but that's preposterous, Warners and Sony have been mastering HDR10 in 4000-nit encodes from the very start.

Dolby's approach has longer-term benefits like 12-bit encodes for the time when we finally move to 12-bit direct view displays, as well as their superior HDR processing in general which cuts down on banding even with a 10-bit HDR source uprezzed into Dolby 12-bit, but even so: on my TV (which already has 14-bit processing) the difference between DV and 'static' HDR10 isn't night and day. I think the DV has slightly more transparency to the source in terms of how light and shade should balance out but could I pick them apart in a 'blind' test? I dunno.

bolding by me in first paragraph above ^

Geoff, given that I’m sure you are quite familiar with this exclusive (to any forum) heads-up from 2014 - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ar#post9754213

Why do you use ‘s’ in quantizer? Is it an inadvertent spelling misstep or a British thing….like ‘colour’ instead of how we here spell ‘color’. Because, on the other hand, I’ve seen you type quantization in some of your posts rather than quantisation.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

[Show spoiler]

You may get a kick out of the following, as the actual author of that ^ slide was…..Pat -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MG_e...dex=26#t=2m34s

[lgans316]

All we need in a TV that supports both dynamic metadata formats.

Thankfully my LG C8 handles DV well unlike the dodgy Sonys'.

I am sure HDR10+ will gain traction next year due to FOX.

Now it is down to Disney to drop the bombshell once they completely takeover FOX.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

bolding by me in first paragraph above ^

Geoff, given that I’m sure you are quite familiar with this exclusive (to any forum) heads-up from 2014 - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ar#post9754213

Why do you use ‘s’ in quantizer? Is it an inadvertent spelling misstep or a British thing….like ‘colour’ instead of how we here spell ‘color’. Because, on the other hand, I’ve seen you type quantization in some of your posts rather than quantisation.

British thing, as well as sometimes not giving a toss so I throw a 'zed' in there for the hell of it.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by lgans316

Thankfully my LG C8 handles DV well unlike the dodgy Sonys'.

Mine handles it just fine, and I have the USA version of Geoff's

[avs commenter]

Samsung has had so many gimmicks come can go that it's hard to take HDR10+ seriously. Especially when most of the industry has really embraced DV.

[nick4Knight]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Mine handles it just fine, and I have the USA version of Geoff's

That's an extraordinary Sony display, though.

[bradipolpo]

Originally Posted by Pieter V

New:

Are there any sources for this movie? I tried to google, but no luck: all infos report standard HDR10.
How do you know this will feature HDR10+?

[lilboyblu]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Mine handles it just fine, and I have the USA version of Geoff's

Looks great on my Sony, too. The "baby ZD9," as Vincent calls it.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by nick4Knight

That's an extraordinary Sony display, though.

Yes, but Geoff has commented about raised blacks on scenes in certain titles.

Last time I saw raised blacks was on First Blood, and that was HDR10 only.
Otherwise it's been stable for me in DV titles and I've been hunting for any issues (last DV titles watched were Matrix Revolutions & 2001).

[Leonidas King]

not very familiar with HDR10+

What exactly does it offer differently than HDR10?

[Noremac Mij]

Originally Posted by lgans316

All we need in a TV that supports both dynamic metadata formats.

Thankfully my LG C8 handles DV well unlike the dodgy Sonys'.

I am sure HDR10+ will gain traction next year due to FOX.

Now it is down to Disney to drop the bombshell once they completely takeover FOX.

When it comes to HDR and DV, C8 destroys the ZD9. But the new A9F is very nice indeed. On par with the C8 IMO.