Archived: Insiders Thread

[Deciazulado]

Regarding Guns,

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Sure, the feature is grainy(heads-up for those anti-grain zealots) and not sharply focused but, hell so is the camera negative.

You know I don't mind the preservation of grain As long as it's faithful to the original negative, things are cookin'!

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I don’t know when it will appear on Sony’s schedule, you’ll have to ask the paidgeek about that.

Maybe Octoberish?

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

studios aren’t forced to do new transfers, this is a commitment to quality which involves an expenditure of resources

And we should applaud and support any studio that does this.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Also……….. in regards to the consumer video codec nonsense that some on AVS seem to imply is of overridingly paramount importance (due to the on-going advertisement campaign presence on the Insider’s Thread there), for this particular title, I don’t know and I don’t care what it will be on Blu-ray --as long as it is NOT bit-starved. (I’m a Fraunhofer research Institute fanboy myself that gets aroused over the JPEG2000 codec rather than the low-bitrate consumer codecs)

mmm 1440p 21:9 coded 200GB jpeg2000 BDs mmm . One can dream.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Be that as it may, if I were to venture a guess, I imagine you’ll be seeing this title in AVC (on BD50).

I'll take that now. Thank you. My friend and me will be very pleased. No more tiny letterboxed late night TV showings of The Guns For Navarone

[MatrixS2000]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Also……….. in regards to the consumer video codec nonsense that some on AVS seem to imply is of overridingly paramount importance (due to the on-going advertisement campaign presence on the Insider’s Thread there), for this particular title, I don’t know and I don’t care what it will be on Blu-ray --as long as it is NOT bit-starved. (I’m a Fraunhofer research Institute fanboy myself that gets aroused over the JPEG2000 codec rather than the low-bitrate consumer codecs)

Be that as it may, if I were to venture a guess, I imagine you’ll be seeing this title in AVC (on BD50).

AMEN! to that..... I do not see how people cannot understand that bit rate has much to do with PQ....

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin

This has nothing to do with your question, but what the heck...just to expound on what you are saying. Yes, the resolution is MORE than twice what the smaller 35mm negative would give. In fact (and many people get this wrong), the 70mm film actually gives close to THREE TIMES the image area if you compare Anamorphic 35mm with the standard 65mm film (Aspect Ratio for Anamorphic is 2.39:1, standard 65mm is 2.20).

The image area for anamorphic lenses using 35mm is 22mm by 18.59mm. This gives a total image area of 408.98mm.

By contrast, the standard 65mm film (5mm is used for the soundtrack) measures 52.48mm by 23.01mm for a total image area of 1207.56.

Divide 1207.56 by 408.98 gives a total of 2.95 times more image area!

Ahh film tech.

Rob, one thing I want to mention, is, that you're quoting the Camera Aperture dimensions which is not what is composed-for in the groundglass and projected on screen (Projector Aperture).


The dimensions are for Scope are 17.526mm x 20.955mm (0.690" x 0.825") and for 70mm 22.098 x 48.565mm (0.870" x 1.912") A 10% difference, which apart from being the intended image, therefore the correct one, makes the resulting image on a video look one step sharper.

The 3:1 relationship still holds (And compared to Super-35, 70mm is almost 5:1 )



Which brings me to

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

The MTF characteristic of the original negative of LoA was actually measured awhile back. From the MTF characteristic of the negative it was determined that digitizing the negative at 6K pixels horizontally would capture all the useful information

Just to be sure and confirm, Penton, you mean 6144 (or 6000?) pixels across the 52.48mm width of the Camera Aperture, no?
You don't mean a 6K scan of 4 microns pitch (250 pixels per mm) (which is what 6k would mean on 35mm). These little pesky details might keep me awake at night!

If the former, (6144 pixels across the Camera Aperture, like scanning 35mm materials at 2.8K) (Which might bring me to a tech question for paidgeek later), that would give us a final 2.20 image of about 2587 x 5686 pixels


So has Lawrence been scanned and preserved at this size right now?


Also

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Not, as you might expect, by scanning it with a laser scanner and examining the signal with a spectrum analyzer but by measuring directly on the camera negative using a form of optical processing chain.

Could you give us a little more detail what this optical process entailed?

LoA

[Rob Tomlin]

Thanks Deci! Great post as usual!

You are correct, those dimensions that I quoted were for the Camera Aperture and doesn't quite equate to what is actually on screen. But at least the 3:1 ratio held up, and that is certainly the important point!

I think Penton Man would have precluded you from answering his question as well, in light of your knowledge of these things!

[Frode]

Guess it's my time to add to the cookie jar . Anyway, what's the average lead time like from deciding on releasing a movie on Blu-ray until the final discs are being pressed and ready to ship to warehouses? I realize this will vary from title to title depending on the condition of the masters, but supposing decent quality? Or is heavy restoration and transfer work very much a normal part of BD production?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

Could you give us a little more detail what this optical process entailed?

Deci, one quick elaboration on the LoA thing regarding the optical chain. To the best of my recollection (this study was done 3-4 years ago).

A laser was set up that shot a beam of light thru a beam expander thru a field lens onto the film frame of LoA. The light then hit a CCD sensor. Now you’re talking very complicated stuff like spatial frequencies and grain noise. Essentially when the amplitude of the image information goes below the film grain noise the only useful information on the film is below that spatial frequency.

I’ll see if I can go thru my computer hard drive and find a slide for you.

[Esox50]

To answer someone else's question about how long it takes to produce a disc, I asked paidgeek the very same question. The answer was about 2 months plus time for package design and delivery.

Do any insider's care to comment on when we might expect full BD Live players and what types of "new things" this will allow us to do with the service?

[Josh]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

We are also quite disappointed as we have been working closely with Samsung and were led to believe that this was not going to be offerred. I'll get more information next week.

Any update?

[WriteSimply]

the HD-DVD side of AVSF is buzzing with news that Walmart had commissioned HD-DVD players from a Chinese manufacturer. Have any of you guys heard that?


fuad

[nhaase]

Originally Posted by blublublu

And we have yet to see any significant movement to even challenge Toshiba's pricing.

I guess it would be nice to see a price cut now, but this summer Sony's releasing a $600 standalone.

[blublublu]

Originally Posted by nhaase

I guess it would be nice to see a price cut now, but this summer Sony's releasing a $600 standalone.

Sony will not grow the market on $600 players.

(Hope this is not de-railing the insiders thread... but would be nice to have some perspective from them)

[Deciazulado]

Speaking of derailing, (j/k), some shuffling has been done and a few posts have been moved, some to the usual place plus the warm welcomes to PM have now joined the Welcome insiders thread.

carry on

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by blublublu

Sony will not grow the market on $600 players.

(Hope this is not de-railing the insiders thread... but would be nice to have some perspective from them)

The second generation Sony BLU-RAY player coming in late July is $400 cheaper then their first generation BLU-RAY player. As long as the BDP-S300 does not get delayed retail stores will be selling it for $599. Most likely in August or September the BDP-S300 will sale around $499 from discount online companies. If Sony felt it was necessary they could always lower the list price of the BDP-S300 to $499 in October. Then the street price for online purchases would place the player around $399.
When people are paying $1500 or more for a HDTV display they will easily pay $400 for a BLU-RAY player if there are a lot of titles exclusive to BLU-RAY. $400 price point is a good price point. One day one will be able to purchase a BLU-RAY player for under $300 but that day might not come until $2008. HD-DVD players will always be cheaper then BLU-RAY players. When HD-DVD players are selling for $50 one day BLU-ray players most likely will be $200.

Hopefully Sanyo will go BLU-RAY. Sanyo developed the HD-S100 HD-DVD player and showed it at the 2006 CES. Later on they canceled its plans to release it. Sanyo is also part of the BLU-RAY camp so hopefully they will come out with a cheap BLU-RAY player to sale at Walmart.

[JBlacklow]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

The term "pressure" is correct but, I think you've got the origin of it incorrect.

Does this have anything to do with it?

Samsung and Microsoft to exchange patent info

Coincidence? I dunno...

[GoldenRedux]

Question for the the hardware guys about the latest firmware update to the Panasonic DMP-BD10 to enable TrueHD and DTS-HD HR decoding. My question is, now that DTS-HD HR decoding is enabled, what happens with titles that are DTS-HD MA? Do we still only get a 1.5Mbps dts core? Or do we get a higher, say, 3Mbps core?

[Jazar]

Originally Posted by JBlacklow

Does this have anything to do with it?

Samsung and Microsoft to exchange patent info

Coincidence? I dunno...

I was thinking the same thing

[JTK]

Originally Posted by JBlacklow

Does this have anything to do with it?

Samsung and Microsoft to exchange patent info

Coincidence? I dunno...

That'd be a hell of a coincidence!

[JBlacklow]

Hey insiders:

A report came out this morning saying that Fuh Yuan and TDK were teaming up to deliver $299 players to Wal-mart. Originally, people were saying it was HD DVD players, but further investigation now says it might actually be Blu-ray players! Any tidbits that could straighten this out?

[HDTV1080P]

Sony Pictures should do the following

** These are just some suggestions that would improve BLU-RAY movie and player sales. The following is just hypothetical ideas **

May 4th 2007 Spiderman 3 is released in theaters nationwide

October 1st 2007 Spiderman 3 is released on BLU-RAY in a Super Bit version. The first BLU-RAY Superbit 50GB MPEG-3/AVC movie utilizing a high bit rate digital transfer process that optimizes video quality with an outstanding PCM sound track. This version would contain no extras, just a 50GB disc filled up with the entire Spiderman 3 movie.

November 1st 2007 Spiderman 3 is released on the DVD format.

Sony Pictures could easily sale many more BLU-Ray players and movies if select BLU-Ray movies like Spiderman 3 were released on home video 30 days before it arrives on DVD. There are millions of BLU-Ray PS3 devices on the market and more would be sold if consumers could purchase select hit movies 30 days early.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by GoldenRedux

Question for the the hardware guys about the latest firmware update to the Panasonic DMP-BD10 to enable TrueHD and DTS-HD HR decoding. My question is, now that DTS-HD HR decoding is enabled, what happens with titles that are DTS-HD MA? Do we still only get a 1.5Mbps dts core? Or do we get a higher, say, 3Mbps core?

Same 1.5 core. (damn DTS! I want Dolby TrueHD Fox! It works!)

A report came out this morning saying that Fuh Yuan and TDK were teaming up to deliver $299 players to Wal-mart. Originally, people were saying it was HD DVD players, but further investigation now says it might actually be Blu-ray players! Any tidbits that could straighten this out?

Seeing as TDK is a strong BDA member (it's their hardcoating) I'm thinking this is more & more likely.