Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by flyry

And neither does a movie being removed completely from a digital provider.

In fact I read about disc rot more often on here, be it wellgo, criterion or other studios.

Did it happen to every disc of certain titles or were all the affected people able to buy replacements?

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

I think you're underestimating the number of people who use their players offline.

That's why they offer the additional option of entering a code from playmybluray.com. They (probably rightfully) assume that just about anyone has access to the web these days.

If a disc required online to use then there would be a lot of returns, and rightfully so. They'd lose sales. I certainly expect that studios will try to implement more control soon but the question is whether or not it will ever become popular.

The more connected everything becomes, the less of a hurdle it will be.

But in any case, I will not let DRM paranoia get in the way of the pleasure of finally being able to watch Le Samourai in HD on my projection screen.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

That's why they offer the additional option of entering a code from playmybluray.com. They (probably rightfully) assume that just about anyone has access to the web these days.

So as long as someone somewhere is providing access to the codes then everything will work offline? That right there has negated the possibility of anything being taken away.

As long as some random person is hosting a website with the old codes everything will work fine. The studios involvement after they provide the codes in the first place isn't needed.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

So as long as someone somewhere is providing access to the codes then everything will work offline? That right there has negated the possibility of anything being taken away.

This particular protection only enforces the street date (after that the key is published on the web site). But they could easily use BD+ in a similar way to enforce a general activation requirement by only releasing an individualized key after logging in to an account or similar.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

This particular protection only enforces the street date (after that they key is published on the web site). But they could easily use BD+ in a similar way to enforce a general activation requirement.

And I wouldn't support titles that use that. They're no better than downloads or streaming.

[s_har]

Originally Posted by flyry

And neither does a movie being removed completely from a digital provider.

In fact I read about disc rot more often on here, be it wellgo, criterion or other studios.

Again, please read my post again. I already stated that a movie being removed completely is the extreme side of things. Not likely to happen, but it can happen, unlike physical. But you never commented on my other concerns regarding versions, transfers and censorship that are far more likely to happen (as it already happens with physical releases, but then you can just pick up a previous release to remedy that).

And again, if you rip digital backup copies from your discs like I do then disc rot is of little concern, like I said. I'm not saying it's entirely a non-issue, but I worry less about that than a digital only future. Backing up your purchased movies is equally important to backing up your own personal fotos and family videos.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

And I wouldn't support titles that use that. They're no better than downloads or streaming.

Exactly my point. The technology to do this is already built into the Blu-ray format.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

Exactly my point. The technology to do this is already built into the Blu-ray format.

But it's not built into the Blu-ray discs I already have. I can easily avoid future discs that use online DRM.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

I'm the one who brought up the MCU situation. They didn't remove the special features. Disney added features to the new versions on iTunes, but didn't add them to your copy if you had redeemed the Paramount code. You still have access to those features on the DMA app, though. So they didn't remove features from the Paramount versions because they were never there. They simply added features for their new versions on iTunes.

You misunderstood the situation, and therefore you interpreted me as being apathetic. I'm not. I love special features, and wouldn't be happy to see them removed. In this case, and in no case that I know, there were no removed features.

I apologize for misunderstanding the point you were making. I didn't mean to do that.

I stand behind the rest of my overall point and the rest of the examples, but I stand corrected on this point.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Penguin, I keep telling you it's all Digital, and Discs are just Storage Devices. The Studios can put anything on those Discs, even software that communicates back to the Studios. Future Physical can have just as much control as Future Digital. Just remember Servers are just massive Storage Devices like Physical Discs. Digital Streaming is The Future, but don't worry there will be Physical Disc too costly with just as much Control!

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

I will never support physical discs with online DRM either, they are just as bad as streaming and downloads. You're not helping your case that streaming and downloads are great by saying that the same terrible online DRM that is already present in them can be implemented in physical media as well.

Saying current downloads and streaming are better than future theoretical physical media isn't much of an argument. The physical discs I'm buying now don't have online DRM, they can't be taken away or deactivated. The digital media you're buying now does have online DRM, it can be taken away and deactivated.

And the continued popularity of DVDs gives me hope for the future. Since the studios have been unsuccessful in convincing everyone to switch to Blu-ray how do think they'll convince everyone to switch to a new physical format filled with online DRM?

Originally Posted by s_har

Of course the content is all digital, but we're talking digital vs physical distribution here.
And that is a major difference because even if some sort of high end DRM were to be implemented on the physical discs you still have those films physically there in your home, not on some distant server under the control of others.
And then, whatever happens, there will always be someone who finds a way to crack that feature so that you can keep playing them like you want or extract your own DRM free digital copies from those discs.

When I say it's all Digital, and the Studios working on Ownership for Movies, I mean Digital Codec like Physical Codec. Instead of putting this Codec on a Physical Disc, you will be able to purchase this Codec and put it on your Server of choice. Just like Physical with the proper Licensing, it can't be removed or disabled. I see the Future with a Fiber Ring type Network, and your Media Server co-located in your ISP or on your Community Intra-Net.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Penguin, I keep telling you it's all Digital, and Discs are just Storage Devices. The Studios can put anything on those Discs, even software that communicates back to the Studios. Future Physical can have just as much control as Future Digital. Just remember Servers are just massive Storage Devices like Physical Discs. Digital Streaming is The Future, but don't worry there will be Physical Disc too costly with just as much Control!

Originally Posted by alchav21

When I say it's all Digital, and the Studios working on Ownership for Movies, I mean Digital Codec like Physical Codec. Instead of putting this Codec on a Physical Disc, you will be able to purchase this Codec and put it on your Server of choice. Just like Physical with the proper Licensing, it can't be removed or disabled. I see the Future with a Fiber Ring type Network, and your Media Server co-located in your ISP or on your Community Intra-Net.

So you're saying that theoretical future digital distribution will be better than theoretical future physical distribution?

If and when digital titles can't be removed from collections or the marketplace I won't have a problem with digital. But I'm not going to support digital now in the hopes that will happen someday. A few titles have been removed from people's digital collections and thousands of titles have been removed from the digital marketplace so we're obviously nowhere near a state like you describe.

I will continue to support physical in the present because it has already achieved a state where titles can't be removed.

[s_har]

Originally Posted by alchav21

When I say it's all Digital, and the Studios working on Ownership for Movies, I mean Digital Codec like Physical Codec. Instead of putting this Codec on a Physical Disc, you will be able to purchase this Codec and put it on your Server of choice. Just like Physical with the proper Licensing, it can't be removed or disabled. I see the Future with a Fiber Ring type Network, and your Media Server co-located in your ISP or on your Community Intra-Net.

But what if I want to put it on my own harddrive in my own computer though? Whether the file is stored on a Blu-ray disc or as a digital file on a harddrive I would never feel safe if it was stored on some foreign server rather than in my own home.

[Rocket Richard]

Originally Posted by flyry

I hope digital always comes with the blu's. I just want them to all drop the DVD

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

Why? What's the harm in getting a free DVD with your Blu-ray?

Nice to see some UHD discs including a Blu ray!

[s_har]

Originally Posted by Rocket Richard

Nice to see some UHD discs including a Blu ray!

In my region every UHD release includes a regular Blu-ray as well. And on top of that very often a digital copy too. I hope this continues.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by s_har

In my region every UHD release includes a regular Blu-ray as well. And on top of that very often a digital copy too. I hope this continues.

Now is the Digital Copy UHD too? It really doesn't say on the packaging, because that would be real nice.

[s_har]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Now is the Digital Copy UHD too? It really doesn't say on the packaging, because that would be real nice.

I'm not sure. I only own three UHD discs so far and unfortunately none of them comes with a digital copy included, but I've noticed on most of the covers it just says ''+Digital Copy'' (and on the back cover it just says ''New and improved digital copy by Flixter'') while on others it states ''+Digital HD Ultraviolet'' so that isn't too promising as I suspect they would have written something like ''+Digital UHD Ultraviolet'' if the digital copy was indeed UHD. But I have no idea really. I'll try to find out when I pick up a release with a digital copy included.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

When I say it's all Digital, and the Studios working on Ownership for Movies, I mean Digital Codec like Physical Codec. Instead of putting this Codec on a Physical Disc, you will be able to purchase this Codec and put it on your Server of choice. Just like Physical with the proper Licensing, it can't be removed or disabled. I see the Future with a Fiber Ring type Network, and your Media Server co-located in your ISP or on your Community Intra-Net.

Originally Posted by s_har

But what if I want to put it on my own harddrive in my own computer though? Whether the file is stored on a Blu-ray disc or as a digital file on a harddrive I would never feel safe if it was stored on some foreign server rather than in my own home.

In my Perfect World, homes will have their own Network and if someone wants to put their Media Server there I'm sure that will be possible too. The Studios only concern is Copy Protection, they don't like Pirates. So these Media Servers would have a way to protect Licensing.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by s_har

I'm not sure. I only own three UHD discs so far and unfortunately none of them comes with a digital copy included, but I've noticed on most of the covers it just says ''+Digital Copy'' (and on the back cover it just says ''New and improved digital copy by Flixter'') while on others it states ''+Digital HD Ultraviolet'' so that isn't too promising as I suspect they would have written something like ''+Digital UHD Ultraviolet'' if the digital copy was indeed UHD. But I have no idea really. I'll try to find out when I pick up a release with a digital copy included.

Which titles do you own?

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Now is the Digital Copy UHD too? It really doesn't say on the packaging, because that would be real nice.

WB gives you Digital UHD on VUDU, as well as Universal. Sony gives you UHD, but not on VUDU. It only plays in UHD on the proprietary Sony streaming service or something. Those are the ones I know about. Fox doesn't redeem 4K period.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by alchav21

In my Perfect World, homes will have their own Network and if someone wants to put their Media Server there I'm sure that will be possible too. The Studios only concern is Copy Protection, they don't like Pirates. So these Media Servers would have a way to protect Licensing.

So you're supporting digital based on what it could possibly be in your perfect world? Since all digital content requires a connection to the digital providers whether digital gets better or worse in the future all your existing content will change with it. It's the uncertainty that worries me.

If physical content in the future is worse it won't have any effect whatsoever on all the physical content I already have or all the physical content that's already been made. I'm certain that all of that content will continue to be available.