Black Panther 4K UHD (2018)

[RockyIII]

Can we have a separate thread about Disney related audio complaints and keep this thread on topic?

[imsounoriginal]

Well this is a Disney title with an audio issue...

[fighthefutureofhd]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

You can get this on DVD too you know. And you won't notice any difference audio wise.

But then I would need a penicillin shot just to watch it. No thanks. I'm not trying to catch any of Disney's STD's. I haven't got an STD since blu-ray was introduced. or was it 4k UHD blu-ray?

[VonMagnum]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

This would be very enlightening for you.

Home Theater Geeks 259: Mastering Movie Audio for the Home - YouTube

If they're changing it for the home, they're screwing with it. The fact remains that every single home and home setup is different and you cannot possibly account for those differences with some bogus remix. Theaters have been far more standardized thanks to George Lucas drawing attention to it. I'd much rather have the theater mix and adjust my equipment to suit than some moron changing the soundtrack to sound good with Bose or a sound bar. That is precisely why these Disney soundtracks sound like crap.

But go on and believe whatever you want to believe about it MUST be remixed for the home. I master my own albums. What sounds good on quality equipment is what it's supposed to sound like. If you mix for the lowest common denominator, you get crap on everything else. I want the theater mix, not some crap made to sound good on a Sony sound bar.

[alexanderg823]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

Look at the most recent villains in Thor Ragnarok, Justice League, Wonder Woman...All uni-dimensional bad guys with nothing to bring to the table. That is where Black Panther shines the most. Good guys making wrong choices sometimes and bad guys only being the result of those choices

And Justice League was universally panned.
Thor Ragnarok is a comedy that doesn't even try to hide its absurdity.
Wonder Woman was overhyped for essentially the same reasons as black panther.

I've seen all of these things about how Killmonger was revolutionary and I'm just like OK... It's really not that deep. The ousted family member that becomes challenger to the throne is one of the oldest and most cliche villains in storytelling.

[jamesdevil]

Originally Posted by BigBlue10989

My point is do a Google search. You will find a lot more complaining about the fact that voices are so much quieter than gunshots, explosions, etc. than vice versa. I'm not surprised. Heck I'm shocked it didn't happen sooner.

I'm well aware people have been complaining about dynamic range forever. I just don't think those same people are buying this release, so why are enthusiasts being punished on an enthusiast format?

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by VonMagnum

If they're changing it for the home, they're screwing with it. The fact remains that every single home and home setup is different and you cannot possibly account for those differences with some bogus remix. Theaters have been far more standardized thanks to George Lucas drawing attention to it. I'd much rather have the theater mix and adjust my equipment to suit than some moron changing the soundtrack to sound good with Bose or a sound bar. That is precisely why these Disney soundtracks sound like crap.

But go on and believe whatever you want to believe about it MUST be remixed for the home. I master my own albums. What sounds good on quality equipment is what it's supposed to sound like. If you mix for the lowest common denominator, you get crap on everything else. I want the theater mix, not some crap made to sound good on a Sony sound bar.

Did you even watch some of that video? Taking the identical mix from the theater is NOT going to sound right at home no matter what your set-up is. It's designed for a huge commercial theater. It would be analogous to taking a 35mm print and doing a raw scan and nothing else...and just watching it on your LED/OLED with no color correction, brightness adjustment, etc. It would look like sh*t. It has to be mastered appropriately for home.

And that is what I told you originally about audio: every disc/master is technically being "screwed with" for home--- and since the late 90s according to that well known Sony engineer who created a white paper on how to make the best compromise which has served as a blue print for the industry in most cases. Obviously, there are MANY amazing audio tracks out there on discs so it's about making smart decisions, having the talent to do it right, and making smart compromises as necessary. You don't have to compromise only to soundbar systems and obviously many studios don't because there are tons of great sounding discs out there. Black Panther is not one of them.

[Boston007]

Originally Posted by alexanderg823

And Justice League was universally panned.
Thor Ragnarok is a comedy that doesn't even try to hide its absurdity.
Wonder Woman was overhyped for essentially the same reasons as black panther.

I've seen all of these things about how Killmonger was revolutionary and I'm just like OK... It's really not that deep. The ousted family member that becomes challenger to the throne is one of the oldest and most cliche villains in storytelling.

I agree. Killmonger was a complete joke. Actually he was just a walking thug. Terrible villain. For someone who was supposed to be highly intelligent he was an idiot

[RockyIII]

Killmonger is the driving force behind this movie

[alexanderg823]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

Killmonger is the driving force behind this movie

that's not the impression i got.

the impression i got was that the driving force behind the movie was T'challa's kingship and the struggles he would face as his father during his vision straight up told him that being a king was a struggle.

remember, the gorilla tribe king (sorry can't recall name) asked if T'Challa lost in the sanctioned battle - and then replied yeah, that's defeat not murder - sanctioned combat to challenge the throne is part of the package of being king. Killmonger could have been replaced by anyone.

The most overlooked thing for such a deep character is Killmonger being motivated by his father's death, saying everything he did in his life lead up to fighting T'Challa. But if he's trying to avenge his father's death - Why is he so angry at T'Challa? He had nothing to do with it, T'Challa's father did. Is he just angry at the idea of Wakanda and the position of black panther itself?
He was a kid in Oakland and didn't know anything about the truth of Wakanda anyways. All his father left him was a ring and a book, which if it contained information about the "truth of wakanda", would probably be seen as a fairy tale storybook, not something to base an entire life on exploring by a reasonable adult. That's not the "revolutionary, extremely logical, intelligent, superior villain" i've seen described in reviews.

It's just a generic villain blinded by rage. a dime a dozen.

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by Boston007

I agree. Killmonger was a complete joke. Actually he was just a walking thug. Terrible villain. For someone who was supposed to be highly intelligent he was an idiot

He had more depth than folks like Aries and Steppenwolf

[joenostalgia23]

I don’t think people were impressed by Killmonger because he was BP’s cousin trying to usurp the throne, yeah that’s been done before. I think it had a lot more to do with the fact that his master plan was basically “kill whitey” and he was in a Disney movie.

[Ant1010]

Originally Posted by joenostalgia23

I don’t think people were impressed by Killmonger because he was BP’s cousin trying to usurp the throne, yeah that’s been done before. I think it had a lot more to do with the fact that his master plan was basically “kill whitey” and he was in a Disney movie.

Kill Whitey could be Disney's new slogan

[Deric2014]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

He had more depth than folks like Aries and Steppenwolf

Don't forget Whiplash, Ronan, Malekith, Darren Cross, Kaecilius.

[r9800pro]

I have been complaining about Disney/Marvel BD audio mixes to my friends for more than 4 years now and they didn't believe me. They said they didn't notice and that the way I listen to movies audio is not with high end sound system so my findings aren't true. Also, a funny comment saying: "There is nothing mentioned online about this and professional reviews give those movies high audio ratings." Yeah... Right.

I usually watch movies with headphones and some type of HRTF on PC and although this is not a good way to really enjoy multi-channel movie sounds, it gives me the ability to pinpoint any shortcomings of audio mixes and I have noticed the lower volume since Iron Man 3 (start of Phase 2) but it only needed a small pump in volume and it sounded very good. Iron Man 3 was the last Paramount/Marvel movie though then MCU became Disney.

Thor: TDW had VERY low volume and it was the first Disney/Marvel MCU movie and it was the start of the bad mixes era of Disney movies. Since that movie, every Disney release, Marvel or not, had bad audio ranging from just low volume, to worst cases like Age of Ultron.

Other movies lack dynamics, bass, back or side channels, etc.

A good friend had a funny idea that made sense, that Disney is doing that intentionally to make people upgrade to UHD when the same movies are released down the road but now after seeing even Atmos mixes of UHDs are also crap, the theory was invalidated.

Star Wars: The Last Jedi was the last movie I buy from Disney and I decided to NOT give them more money until this crap is fixed and we get an official response from Disney.

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by Deric2014

Don't forget Whiplash, Ronan, Malekith, Darren Cross, Kaecilius.

You know you are dealing with a brilliant villain when you almost want to root for him

[Deric2014]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

You know you are dealing with a brilliant villain when you almost want to root for him

The only MCU villain i want to root for is Vulture and Loki but Thanos comes close.

[Boston007]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

He had more depth than folks like Aries and Steppenwolf

Wonder Woman was still a far far better movie though.

[VonMagnum]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Did you even watch some of that video? Taking the identical mix from the theater is NOT going to sound right at home no matter what your set-up is. It's designed for a huge commercial theater. It would be analogous to taking a 35mm print and doing a raw scan and nothing else...and just watching it on your LED/OLED with no color correction, brightness adjustment, etc. It would look like sh*t. It has to be mastered appropriately for home.

The size of the venue, etc, should have nothing to do with the mix for God's sake. What do you think equalizers and room correction systems and even quality speakers are for??? The surround processors used account for speaker arrays as well. I don't know WTF you think is in that mix that needs to be changed. A room should have FLAT response. Period!!!! THAT is what it should be mixed for at theater and home theater alike. There is NOTHING stopping you from having a small or even full size theater at home! You can even buy and use the same damn pro equipment. What you CANNOT typically get are the theatrical release "prints" (now digital). What exactly do you think is going to happen if you have a huge room and recreate an actual theater environment and you feed it some mix made for crappy sound bars at "home"?????? It's going to sound like crap. You can always get better equipment at home to improve your response to its ideal. You can't correct crappy EQ for garbage systems as you cannot possibly know everything they screwed with. But FLAT can be fixed with simple upgrades or room correction (including EQ).

This same guy you worship is pushing the same theory that is fracking these soundtracks up. I'll happily call him a moron to his face because it's a BAD THEORY (that a different venue demands a different mix instead of fixing the venue). The fact some soundtracks better on some systems doesn't excuse the practice. You've never heard a real soundtrack at home untouched on a quality system, so how would you know it would "sound like crap" ??? You're just taking one person's word over another.

The same exact garbage happens in music every day. Most albums aren't made for quality high end equipment!!! They're mastered for earbuds and cheap car stereos and boom boxes in the past. There's no mystery there. It's common knowledge and common practice in the industry as I'm very familiar. For every Dark Side of the Moon there's 10 Firehouse or Californication or other less than ideal mastering designed for radio or cheap digital. ITunes even has a 'Mastered for iTunes" moniker that means it must be farking compressed as hell (loud) among other things. Ask any mastering engineer the truth about what they CAN do and what they're allowed to do. They are told what to do by record execs that wouldn't know quality sound if it hit them on the head.

And that is what I told you originally about audio: every disc/master is technically being "screwed with" for home--- and since the late 90s

So movie soundtracks sucked at home before the late '90s???? Bullcrap. I had high end system with laserdisc and scan doubling and DTS at home when it first came out. I've got Jurassic Park on laserdisc in DTS still and those of that had it immediately knew something was wrong on the DVD when it came out (the DTS one at that). The bass had all the life sucked out of it, not unlike the complaints in this thread about Disney. But it was just the bass. But it was the result of your hero's theory, that the mix for home shouldn't match the theater. It might blow some woofers at volume! Yeah, that's not my problem. The theater mix was better.

according to that well known Sony engineer who created a white paper on how to make the best compromise

Compromised is the correct word. You're getting screwed with these sub-optimal soundtracks at home. And comparing a film scan to digital is stupid. These days the theaters get the same digital HD ad the rest of us. Dolby Atmos is the same scalable format at home as it is in the theater. If your room is large enough, you can buy the same Dolby processors the theaters use and the same speakers, etc. There's nothing special about a theater speaker compared to a home speaker or how your ears hear in different size rooms. It's the room that should be treated not the soundtrack. But the studios know most people aren't going to spend much, if any on proper sound so they compromise just like the music industry. The complaints in this thread are a direct result. The fact you like some compromises better than others doesn't make it any less of a compromise.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by VonMagnum

I'll happily call him a moron to his face because it's a BAD THEORY (that a different venue demands a different mix instead of fixing the venue).

lol I stopped reading here.

All the best.