HDR Discussion Thread

[hedliniv]

I am having a Charlie Brown moment....

I just bought a LG OLED 65 E6 (2016 model) I thought it was future proof because it also handled Dolby Vision. (I know there is really no such thing as future proof)

Does this mean that my TV will not be able to handle these additional versions of HDR that I just found out about? Will my TV be able to have firm ware updates to handle these changes or I did I jump too quickly into buying an HDR TV?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DanBa

with 10-bit HEVC Main 10 Level 5.2 hardware decoding (up to 120 fps), for HDR processing / display adaptation...

For motion sports, esp. like soccer and basketball, HFR (100/120 fps), given it being a constant upgrade to the motion blur of 50/60 fps capture and display, should provide even a greater quality of visual improvement over that of HDR, which can be more variable, event to event, depending upon the venue, lighting conditions, shader. HFR will be a major value added for the first provider to jump in and a great way to differentiate oneself from other networks.

Proven definitive answers to some of these issues remain -



but prepare yourselves and wallets for the next best thing (HFR), esp. if sports minded . Of course, combining HFR and HDR together with WCG (live) and you’re on the path to your basic Holy Grail of video.

[Gillietalls]

Originally Posted by hedliniv

I am having a Charlie Brown moment....

I just bought a LG OLED 65 E6 (2016 model) I thought it was future proof because it also handled Dolby Vision. (I know there is really no such thing as future proof)

Does this mean that my TV will not be able to handle these additional versions of HDR that I just found out about? Will my TV be able to have firm ware updates to handle these changes or I did I jump too quickly into buying an HDR TV?

Technicolor no, but HLG (cable broadcast HDR) yes. These 2016 OLEDs are as close as you're going to get. And you still get 3D.

[DanBa]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Did you attend Virginie’s DVB webinar this morning? I’m normally on the road dealing with SoCal traffic that time of day. Dan, what time zone are you in?

Yes, these slides are from Virginie Drugeon's presentation.

I am living in France.

[DanBa]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

... Of course, combining HFR and HDR together with WCG (live) and you’re on the path to your basic Holy Grail of video.

I had a dream that a consumer organization announced a new logo for Universal HDR TV and another new premium logo for Universal TV, i.e. a high-quality TV for the masses that remains functional for many years to come:

. Universal HDR TV: compliant with all existing operational HDR formats and committedly upgradable to ongoing standardized HDR formats.

. Universal TV = Universal HDR TV + HFR 120 fps:
4K UHD, 10/12 bit depth, WCG, HFR 120 fps and Universal HDR

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Good news on ATSC 3.0.

Now that HLG has been added to ATSC 3.0 we will hopefully see a few more CE companies announce HLG firmware updates for their 2016 HDR displays. At the moment I think LG and Samsung are the only two CE companies to have done that.

Originally Posted by DanBa

As far as I understand, the video parts of ATSC 3.0 (candidate standard) and DVB UHD Phase 2 are basically the same, i.e. PQ/HLG HDR, HFR.
https://www.dvb.org/standards#standardgroup_24

When it comes to HDR they are exactly the same since they require support for both HLG and PQ. When it comes to HFR though there is one difference which is that ATSC 3.0 requires support for HEVC Level 5.2 (4K at 120 fps) while DVB UHD Phase 2 allows HDR receivers to use either Level 5.1 or Level 5.2. Of course some DVB countries might require a Level 5.2 HEVC decoder but that will vary depending on the country.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

I have Jessica Jones and Luke Cage in Dolby Vision on my side.

My sister is marching in the big march in D.C. on Saturday.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

For inquiring technical minds, as opposed to the Dolby (parameter tone mapping) approach, Samsung’s solution is scene-based color volume mapping. Don’t have time to post a slide now, maybe later. Regardless, this will be explained in an upcoming SMPTE Standards webcast published on YouTube.

Upcoming is now(published) -

The ST 2094 Standards Suite For Dynamic Metadata - YouTube

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

Will definitely check it out. Would be interesting to hear the benefits and advantages of both methods.

Here you go for the Samsung method -

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qicgLruwMTY#t=41m51s

scroll back from that ^ for the Dolby approach.

[DanBa]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

...
When it comes to HDR they are exactly the same since they require support for both HLG and PQ. When it comes to HFR though there is one difference which is that ATSC 3.0 requires support for HEVC Level 5.2 (4K at 120 fps) while DVB UHD Phase 2 allows HDR receivers to use either Level 5.1 or Level 5.2. Of course some DVB countries might require a Level 5.2 HEVC decoder but that will vary depending on the country.

"HEVC encoded ATSC 3.0 Progressive Video shall comply with the following constraints:
• The bitstream shall conform to HEVC Main 10 Profile or HEVC Scalable Main 10 Profile, Main Tier, Level 5.2. Note that when a bitstream is indicated to conform to a level that is lower than Level 5.2, it is also considered as conforming to Level 5.2."
http://atsc.org/wp-content/uploads/2...Video-HEVC.pdf

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DanBa

France.

and for those here in the U.S.

Throwback Thursday post (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...s#post12998785 ) because sometimes I feel that with all the ‘high’ this, 'high' that discussion, it presumes, as a given, everyone in the land has normal or even superb vision….lest we not take a healthy visual system for granted and forget about others who may be less fortunate and are fighting vision related diseases like glaucoma for which there is no cure, just management to save one’s sight.

As a follow-up to the post linked in the paragraph above and on a more medical rather than surgical note with implantation of the Xen45, another tidbit of information for you readers with family or friends fighting to keep their vision and which I doubt your local community ophthalmologist is aware of, but you should be to keep them cutting edge, especially if you have a parent or grandparent struggling with applicable forms of glaucoma, is that there is a novel nitric oxide-donating prostaglandin F2αreceptor agonist in development for intraocular pressure lowering in open-angle glaucoma and ocular hypertension. This should receive FDA approval and come to market this year.

So, long story short, there is hope for those who are reluctant to have surgical procedures. Inform your family/friends that I’m informed (with a high degree of confidence) that the efficacy of this new forthcoming eye drop to the U.S. is equal to selective laser trabeculoplasty

Laser Trabeculoplasty for Glaucoma: ALT vs SLT, Animation. - YouTube

[Penton-Man]

Soooo, after having done my civic duty to those readers who may have parents or grandparents, etc. in need, as not to stray too far off topic, with regards to

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

in development

and entertainment -

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Some of my buddies (various different company employees, as well as a couple of gifted independent contractors) with yours truly taking a moment to pose for a photo at a Group Ride meet up …..

Originally Posted by jono3000

Any of these guys from Disney?

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

One,

And from that one ^ all I can reveal is that there’s a project in development (for a potential future feature film not yet officially announced, nor google-able to any internet site because it’s still hush-hush) by the animation folks (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...es-2017-960442 ) which involves the production team interviewing/researching monks (with their special skills and lifestyle) as background information for the animated character in this future movie.

This ^ information is extremely cutting edge in that the project is still in the early preliminary stages like with the exclusive revelation back in 12-23-2008 that another studio (Sony) was working on calibration test signals to accompany the main features on yet to be released Blu-ray movie discs….https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...de#post1432708

taking about 3 years (to 2011) to come to fruition – https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ls#post4453123

[DanBa]

Progress in the Alliance for Open Media - YouTube

[Penton-Man]

Pertaining to progress to publication of the last document (far right) of the 2094 document suite, which Lars briefly alludes to here:

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qicg...t=32m37s<br />

I covered its status prior to the webinar….https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...g#post13080321

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Upcoming is now(published) -

Very detailed presentation and Lars Borg makes some interesting statements.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qicg...youtu.be&t=767

He mentions that he doesn't know of anything that uses ICtCp.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qicg...outu.be&t=1293

He talks about his personal ranking of HDR and says that HDR needs metadata in order to have "a perfect representation on a HDR display". I think that superior video quality is what most consumers want and that to perfectly show HDR video the way that it was mastered is extremely difficult outside of cinema (and even inside of cinema there are issues such as emergency lighting). Still I do think that dynamic metadata would be useful and he gives a good explanation of why HDR10 would have trouble showing 4,000 nits video on a 500 nits display.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qicg...outu.be&t=2510

He talks about the Samsung dynamic metadata system (SMPTE ST 2094-40) and I think this might be the first video presentation to cover the details of how it works.

Originally Posted by DanBa

"HEVC encoded ATSC 3.0 Progressive Video shall comply with the following constraints:
• The bitstream shall conform to HEVC Main 10 Profile or HEVC Scalable Main 10 Profile, Main Tier, Level 5.2. Note that when a bitstream is indicated to conform to a level that is lower than Level 5.2, it is also considered as conforming to Level 5.2."
http://atsc.org/wp-content/uploads/2...Video-HEVC.pdf

ATSC 3.0 is impressive for using HEVC Level 5.2 though I do wonder what that means for the ATSC 3.0 products that are coming out this year. As far as I know HEVC Level 5.2 decoders are not in mass production.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

And from that one ^ all I can reveal is that there’s a project in development (for a potential future feature film not yet officially announced, nor google-able to any internet site because it’s still hush-hush) by the animation folks (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...es-2017-960442 ) which involves the production team interviewing/researching monks (with their special skills and lifestyle) as background information for the animated character in this future movie.

Monks? That is rare and the only animated movie I can think of that had monks in it was The Secret of Kells.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

Monks? That is rare and the only animated movie I can think of that had monks in it was The Secret of Kells.

Monks are expert at different disciplines, like so in a Buddhist temple….

The KUNFU COBRA STYLE - YouTube

It will be interesting to see what direction the Mouse House animation people go with this.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

He talks about the Samsung dynamic metadata system (SMPTE ST 2094-40) and I think this might be the first video presentation to cover the details of how it works.

The first video, yes, but not one of the first written presentations to cover the details of how it works (filing Dec. 2015).….

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Truth be told, there are also some dynamically creative prolific inventors that work out of Samsung who know a thing or two about HDR metadata, like Li ……
https://www.linkedin.com/in/li-tao-95b6998

[DanBa]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Just confirmed that Sony's Z9D and A1E will support the following HDR formats:
- HDR10 HEVC
- HLG HEVC
- Dolby Vision (via streaming and 4k Blu-ray) HEVC
- HDR10 VP9
- HLG VP9
- YouTube HDR

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...1&postcount=26

Thank you, Robert!

So, like LG, Sony supports all HDR formats being operational in 2017 (i.e. HDR10, Dolby Vision, HEVC HLG HDR, VP9-HLG / VP9-PQ YouTube HDR).



LG also supports the upcoming Technicolor HDR, i.e. an upcoming Dynamic HDR format.
https://twitter.com/DanielBa78/statu...23805686190080

[Penton-Man]

^ Good show

[Penton-Man]

Heads-up Brits at the grass roots level if you’re around town end of Feb. visit BVE 2017 as there’s HDR and ‘high rez matters’ topics on the program…..http://www.bvexpo.com/Content/Why-Visit-BE