HDR Discussion Thread

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Staying Salty

BDA Talks 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray, 8K TV & Streaming at CES 2019 - YouTube

Predicts 40% of Blu-ray sells to be 4K by 2022.

See that this is #8000 post of thread.

• https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=8000
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[GeneD5]

Originally Posted by gkolb

How about the NFL playoffs and Super Bowl in 4K.
With 4K Super Bowl ads !

Absolutely!

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

The link you provided ... = Error (403)

Thank you for pointing out. Fixed. It worked when tested the first time, so not sure what happened.

Also fixed the typo(s) pointed out by mrtickleuk. You get used to looking at something for so long you miss the obvious.

The sample image you provided only works if you start in 4:4:4, which does not work for compressed formats. I tried some new ideas, but they break if color space or chroma upsampling algorithm don't match.

Similar issue to the Dolby Vision test card. If you convert to 4:2:0, it does not work. They depend on single pixel chroma lines, which don't exist once you subsample.

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

It’s been awhile, welcome back . We were just referencing you in conversation over the holiday….https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...s#post15907147

We have not had a decent Army show since The Unit was cancelled. It is all Navy all the time now.

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

We have not had a decent Army show since The Unit was cancelled. It is all Navy all the time now.

As it should be!!!

Then again, this has been my office for the last decade:

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

Thank you for pointing out. Fixed. It worked when tested the first time, so not sure what happened.

I just tried again and I get the same. It's a Google sign in thing?
20190112_182857.jpg

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

Navy

On the same base where some of Top Gun: Maverick was filmed…

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

I like Vincent; there are not many people in the audio/video industry (business, dealers, advertisers, salesmen, ...) who are upfront, honest, unbiased and with his integrity's level.

There are a few more, e.g. Stacey, Kris, etc.

Anyway, I watched Vincent's whole 10 min. LG C9 videoclip waiting and waiting for a joke (and considering his previous innuendos that you guys’ have posted here, thinking that he’d comment something as to ‘Naughty America’ at CES - https://venturebeat.com/2019/01/10/n...-your-bedroom/), but all we got from Vincent was this…..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-Csigm-WWk#t=9m26s

ergo, to fill the comic void with current events, as a follow-up to Geoff’s post -

Originally Posted by Geoff D

looking forward to the new series Operation Washington….https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAKcbCUNcMY#t=13s

somebody should send this ^ to Sir David Attenborough

[gkolb]

Ha Ha! Alexa, tell Vincent a joke!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by gkolb

Ha Ha! Alexa, tell Vincent a joke!

Vincent had just better be careful, “They noticed that a woman was around at times. They listened to him in the shower.…. Using these files, it was fairly easy to identify the person involved and his female companion.” -

https://gizmodo.com/the-amazon-alexa...rue-1831231490

[Penton-Man]

Vincent – at timestamp 4 min. 27 sec. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0zzLg4pmEs#t=4m27s

That “conventional wisdom” to which you refer has been debunked on Blu-ray.com for years, last reiterated here - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...r#post15637076

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

Here is a link to the menu mock-up

This will give you an idea on what is on the disc. If you have any requests for something missing, I have about a week before I send everything to authoring.

A new menu mock-up ...
20190113_235401.jpg

[DanBa]

According to Vincent Teoh, the Sony Z9G/ZG9 will also support HDR10+: it will be an operationally Universal HDR TV supporting all currently operational HDR formats, i.e. HDR10, HLG, Dolby Vision & HDR10+.

Sony Z9G/ ZG9 Wows CES with 8K Immersion, HDR Brightness & HDMI 2.1 - YouTube

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DanBa

According to Vincent Teoh, the Sony Z9G/ZG9 will also support HDR10+: it will be an operationally Universal HDR TV supporting all currently operational HDR formats, i.e. HDR10, HLG, Dolby Vision & HDR10+....

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

advertising manufacturers we get harassed by their bias and salel pitches and deceived. There are few rare exceptions of course, but we don't get the full scope.

So, for the “full scope” it’s up to those of you living the charmed life of swapping out your TVs every other year or so for something you think is better (granted you have excellent visual acuity and contrast sensitivity - https://www.allaboutvision.com/eye-e...ensitivity.htm
) that given Sony’s already *excellent dynamic HDR10 tone mapping*, is the additional feature of HDR10+ support an actual (seein is believin) upgrade to HDR picture quality outcome, or

essentially a marketing feature?

[Penton-Man]

“Gianopulos disagrees that there’s a franchise hole….” https://www.bloomberg.com/tosv2.html...9tZWJhY2sta2lk

Well done G. –
https://twitter.com/TomCruise

[DisplayCalNoob]

@Penton-Man Have you heard anything about the move to CMv4.0 for what is now 20 trim pass features?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob

@Penton-Man Have you heard anything about the move to CMv4.0 for what is now 20 trim pass features?

I'm not Penton, but didn't this happen several months ago? There are actually 21 trim pass features, the newly added Mid Tone Offset is not grouped with the Level 2 Primary (8) and Secondary hue & saturation (12) trim controls.

This will probably get lost very quickly but I think I've found the cause of the Dolby greybars problem, this is from the V3.0 DV Best Practices document regarding the L2 trim metadata:

IMPORTANT NOTE 3

Avoid using positive values on the LIFT trim control for letterboxed content. ( negative Lift can be used). The current implementation on Ultra HD Blu-ray and some OTT HDMI devices apply the Trims to the letterbox blanking area to allow subtitles to appear over them. If the scene contains positive Lift values to raise the target black levels, this may cause the letterboxed area to also lift. An alternate way to achieve the desired result is to use GAIN and GAMMA trims more aggressively as these controls are manipulating the tone curve to achieve a more lifted black effect without using Lift. If the content matches the canvas ratio, i.e. no letterbox, positive Lift can be used.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

This will probably get lost very quickly but I think I've found the cause of the Dolby greybars problem, this is from the V3.0 DV Best Practices document regarding the L2 trim metadata:

^ The V3.0 document is from November 29, 2018 so one would hope that from here on out that the Lift control - which controls black levels, Gamma does mid tones and Gain is for highlights - is not used in this manner going forward, but it's too late for the swathes of DV content that have been mastered in this way however.

[SeeMoreDigital]

It does make you wonder why, when the disc specs were created, no provision was made for the black mattes to be electronically produced/generated rather than encoded...

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital

It does make you wonder why, when the disc specs were created, no provision was made for the black mattes to be electronically produced/generated rather than encoded...

Because the 16:9 frame size for consumer video is what it is, and that doesn't just apply to 4K UHD but HD video as well. Adding in the need for players/TVs to generate the borders themselves could've created other issues with encoding/playback and it's far simpler to just hard encode the borders into the image. That said, anyone who plays back video streams which have had the borders cropped out will know that this usually works pretty well in the player/TV, that they just recreate the borders and take it from there.

In any case, it's good to know that the issue isn't with the content as such, it's the implementation of it in the hardware that's transposing the trim values of the active content into the letterbox bars. One would imagine that this is exactly what LG sought to 'turn off' in their fix that was issued to their older TVs and included as standard in the 2018 sets (though some people still report grey bars on the occasional title, even with the updated firmware).

It's a shame Sony didn't get that memo as the DV grey bars were a constant niggle on my ZD9 (Yes Peter, I know it's magically not there on your ZD9) as they are on other people's Sony sets, several of whom who've contacted me about it. Clicking the black level down by 1 is enough to circumvent it with minimal effect on the content but even so, they really should've had this issue identified to them by Dolby. Or maybe it was flagged up to them but they ignored it?

What's more troubling is that, after my regular bouts of piss-taking out of posters like brasil who insist that Dolby Vision is too dark on their Sony TVs, I've come to the same conclusion after getting suspicious of how dim the Kryptonian suits looked in Superman the Movie on 4K. The DV isn't usually so dim that it's like watching with sunglasses on, otherwise me and my 'eagle eyes' would've picked up on it well before now, for having a light cannon of a TV means that I'm still getting many hundreds of nits in most circumstances. But STM got my Geoffy Sense tingling, and having done light readings and comparisons with several movies the DV is indeed drastically cutting back the luminance compared to the calibrated HDR10 output - and while I can raise DV luminance by upping the TV's contrast this then clips out all the high-nit highlight detail that the magic of Dolby Vision was supposed to be able to protect!

HDR, eh? Bloody hell.