HDR Discussion Thread

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob

I would say Disney never really had any desire to support any dynamic metadata platform on physical media. Streaming seems to have some sort of appeal to them, enough to make DV a central part of their streaming backbone.

What's also a disappointment about DV streaming (besides the low bitrates anyway) is that it is using MEL encoding ONLY. The bit depth is lower and there is no enhancement layer to bump up the bit depth to 12 either.


Streaming SUCKS!!!

[avs commenter]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

Why would you link those two things? I don't think it's safe to predict anything of the sort.

I think its very safe to assume Disney has no interest in adding DV to disc. They have now released almost all their major films in UHD and their main focus going forward will be Disney+

[Kool-aid23]

Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob

I would say Disney never really had any desire to support any dynamic metadata platform on physical media. Streaming seems to have some sort of appeal to them, enough to make DV a central part of their streaming backbone.

Yes, I agree. I was hoping that they were taking the George Lucas philosophy and waiting until more DV A/V support was readily available before making the commitment.

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by avs commenter

I think its very safe to assume Disney has no interest in adding DV to disc. They have now released almost all their major films in UHD and their main focus going forward will be Disney+

That's fine, though for me, I don't see any value whatsoever in predicting the future, whether the prediction turns out to be true or not.

Given that I have no intention whatsoever of subscribing to any streaming service, and I buy only the movies I like - on disc - several months after release when they float painfully slowly back to to a reasonable price (whether it is "only" HDR10 which is already fantastic, or Dolby Vision which can look a little bit better), I take each title individual on its merits as and when it arrives. Predictions of their subjective future "strategy" don't influence me.

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

What's also a disappointment about DV streaming (besides the low bitrates anyway) is that it is using MEL encoding ONLY. The bit depth is lower and there is no enhancement layer to bump up the bit depth to 12 either.

Quite, which makes all the fuss about focussing on the Dolby Vision aspect and not the overall quality (primarily driving by bitrates) all the more baffling to me. The high-bitrate discs with fully lossless audio, all the extras, and a higher quality picture overall, will do me just fine.

[Lee A Stewart]

Vizio adds HDR10+ support to select 2018, 2019 TVs

In addition to HDR10, HLG and Dolby Vision, Vizio has added support for the HDR10+ format to select 2018 and 2019 TVs via a firmware update.

Multi-HDR
After Panasonic and Philips became the first TV brands to offer multi-HDR in Europe, Vizio is now bringing multi-HDR support to the US for the first time.

Firmware version 4.0.20.30 adds HDR10+ to the following TVs, according to Vizio:
2019 P-Series Quantum
2019 P-Series Quantum X
2019 M-Series Quantum (55 and 65")
2018 P-Series
2018 P-Series Quantum

The list covers these specific models: PX75-G, PX65-G, P759-G, P659-G, PQ65-F, P75-F, P65-F, P55-F, M658-G, M558-G, M657-G, and M557-G.

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1573539263

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Vizio adds HDR10+ support to select 2018, 2019 TVs....
https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1573539263

as the content outcome is dependent upon what’s upstream, one would think flatpanels, for the sake of HDR dynamic connoisseurs, would be asking/considering if anything has changed with HDR10+ in terms of implementation tools since this time….
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...e#post16445932

[Nitroboy]

What does production photos from Top Gun have to do with HDR discussion

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by Nitroboy

What does production photos from Top Gun have to do with HDR discussion

This thread is populated with many experts (I am not one) and industry insiders who gain access to behind-the-scenes movie production areas as part of their work with colourists etc. Many long-running threads have a particular "character" and tangential topic drift all of their own, and one such facet of this particular thread is those kind of posts. HTH

[PaulGo]

Originally Posted by Nitroboy

What does production photos from Top Gun have to do with HDR discussion

It's about members having a bit of fun in a technical thread. To a degree I wish these off topic posts were posted in a separate thread since too many off topic posts appear in this thread, but having some fun makes this thread enjoyable.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

What's also a disappointment about DV streaming (besides the low bitrates anyway) is that it is using MEL encoding ONLY. The bit depth is lower and there is no enhancement layer to bump up the bit depth to 12 either.


Streaming SUCKS!!!

Why would that be important when ALL WCG UHD TVs are comprised of 10 bit panels?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Why would that be important when ALL WCG UHD TVs are comprised of 10 bit panels?

Higher bit depth in the source translates to better gradations in the final product, even if viewed on a 10-bit display. Similar principles as oversampling when it comes to resolution, you get better results from overshooting and then boiling it back down rather than just mastering and delivering everything at the same bit depth and resolution. Sony have been turbo-charging the bit depth in their Blu-rays for years (Super Bit Mapping, they call it), the end result is still 8-bit on disc but the higher bit depth during mastering means that gradations are much smoother in the final product.

Not that I think HDR10 is a hot mess when it comes to banding, as most reports of such are either people's TV's choking on the bit depth as it is (the internal processing not being all that good, hence some Sony's operating at 14-bit to give them enough headroom to 'losslessly' process the incoming 10 or 12-bit images) or it's actually baked in to the source material itself, but there are one or two examples where DV's FEL would've been nice.

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Why would that be important when ALL WCG UHD TVs are comprised of 10 bit panels?

I know Geoff D just answered your question and my response is not for you only... but are people seriously are this uninformed about the benefits of DV on a 10-bit panel? This have been answered for the past (at least) 2 years.

[LordoftheRings]

☆ The Star Wars original trilogy is in 4K with Dolby Vision HDR on Disney Plus

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

☆ The Star Wars original trilogy is in 4K with Dolby Vision HDR on Disney Plus

Not the ORIGINAL original trilogy, unfortunately.

A hard pass.

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

I know Geoff D just answered your question and my response is not for you only... but are people seriously are this uninformed about the benefits of DV on a 10-bit panel? This have been answered for the past (at least) 2 years.

Quite. Further to that, it's utter nonsense that "ALL" of them are 10bit panels. Far far too many being sold are 8-bit with FRC. True 10 bit panels are a lot more expensive.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Nitroboy

What does production photos from Top Gun have to do with HDR discussion

As a picture is worth a thousand words, I was thinking that some readers of the thread would enjoy seeing the unrestrained reactions of a well-known Director, Writer, Producer, leading actor after seeing a special screening of HDR movie as much as people enjoy reading about collectors’ reactions to this or that UHD Blu-ray in the dedicated movie threads. Nevertheless, I’ll spare you the behind the scenes photo of this device’s use on set as mentioned last summer –

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

As an aside, AJA’s FS-HDR was used in monitoring the production of Top Gun: Maverick

Personally, I find HDR capable and 'IMAX certified' digital cameras mounted on fighter jets in exclusive pictures to be more exciting anyway - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...e#post16754959
given what they can offer to imaging for the final cut as opposed to vfx, e.g. https://www.artofvfx.com/midway/

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

....Sony have been turbo-charging the bit depth in their Blu-rays for years (Super Bit Mapping, they call it), the end result is still 8-bit on disc but the higher bit depth during mastering means that gradations are much smoother in the final product.

Additionally, Cliff typo aside, given the inherent characteristics of the human visual system, the explanation on how the responsible algorithm worked to mitigate banding as described in Club Penton from about 10 years ago -

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Clif Notes version of the “SBMV” reduction algorithm-
When you convert 10-bit masters to 8-bit Blu-rays, color banding can detract from superb picture quality depending upon the source (esp. animation movies, but also with things like fades involving live action titles), so,

the “secret sauce” so to speak, achieves a smooooooth color gradation by what’s called ‘noise shaping’. Which, in simplistic terms, means superposing minute quantization errors(noise) in high-frequency areas. Because this process always works on high-frequency areas (and human vision is characterized by low sensitivity to high-frequency signals) perceived noise is far lower than with other conventional gradation conversion processes.
https://www.sony.co.jp/SonyInfo/News...00905/09-0512/

P.S.
For those who may be ‘confused’, the explanation ^ serves as an example of what the human visual system has to do with the development of an algorithm to mitigate banding on Blu-rays.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

Not the ORIGINAL original trilogy, unfortunately.

A hard pass.

Yeah, I know. Best to keep our VHS tapes still ...
Can you remaster VHS tapes and laser discs with HDR?

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

Not the ORIGINAL original trilogy, unfortunately.

A hard pass.

A few seconds of changes here and there over hours of the material looking better than it ever has. Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

A few seconds of changes here and there over hours of the material looking better than it ever has. Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time.”