How important is 10-bit color, really?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Tech-UK

12-bit

Something that people on consumer forums seem not to understand, who have little or no background in the day-to-day workings of theatrical deliverables (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...or#post9623181) nor much of any insight as to how/why ’12 bits’ was chosen by the D-Cinema working group back in-the-day is that the 12bit encoding thing was determined because of the D-cinema choice to use XYZ components…note that XYZ is over 2x the size of BT.2020 based on orthogonal linear basis vectors. This 12 bit depth determination by the D-Cinema working group is/was really rather straightforward as compared to determining the white point for Digital Cinema ….lessons from which were learned in helping with the recommendation for the white point for ACES.

For those who didn’t understand the chart and table posted at the bottom of the last page which is based directly on the work of the ITU investigators actually tasked with determining the parameter values of Ultra HD in ITU-R BT. 2020, in simplistic terms, think of it like this…if you weight the color space based on the original Rec. 709, then you should see that to extend to the wider gamut of BT.2020 needs about another bit…..not really as much as 4 bits (which would come to a total of 12bits).

[DanielWatson]

It's critical to comprehend that while the unmistakable windows will turn into 10-bit shading, whatever is left of the TOP substance inside TouchDesigner will stay at whatever its pixel organization is situated as.

[AudioWarrior]

Does anyone know with certainty if they'll choose 10bit 4:2:0 rec. 2020, or 12-bit, 4:2:2?

Current premium panels offer 10-bit 4:2:2, so wouldn't they want to support what's currently available to the consumer market?

[Tech-UK]

Originally Posted by AudioWarrior

Does anyone know with certainty if they'll choose 10bit 4:2:0 rec. 2020, or 12-bit, 4:2:2?

Current premium panels offer 10-bit 4:2:2, so wouldn't they want to support what's currently available to the consumer market?

UHD Blu-ray is looking to be 10-bit, 4:2:0 and P3 colour space. (But only time will tell.)

A Blu-ray player can only output 4:2:2 at minimum, so the display if being fed 4:2:2 needs to convert that to 4:4:4 then to RGB which is then fed to the pixels.

With regards to the actual bit-depth of the panel, that is rarely shared, but there are certainly more true 10-bit panels out there now.

[RWetmore]

Originally Posted by AudioWarrior

Does anyone know with certainty if they'll choose 10bit 4:2:0 rec. 2020, or 12-bit, 4:2:2?

I'm virtually certain it will only be 10bit 4:2:0.

Originally Posted by AudioWarrior

Current premium panels offer 10-bit 4:2:2, so wouldn't they want to support what's currently available to the consumer market?

Because it takes up too much disc space and/or bandwidth to fit on a 66GB or 100GB disc.

[AParsh]

So i have a "HUGE" question for everyone here.
I'm looking at buying a Samsung 75" HU8550 4k TV, but it only has an 8bit panel. It's last year's model (2014) but I like the TV and the price i found online. If i buy this TV with only 8bit panel will I be SOL when UHD Blu-Ray gets released? Basically since the panel is not 10bit, will i not be able to play a UHD Blu-Ray? Or will it be just downscaled for my 8bit panel?

Thanks a lot, i want to know the answer to this before i drop the money!

[Robert Zohn]

APash, thanks for the very good question. Here's the facts. You will LOVE UHD Blu-ray on your 8bit 75" HU8550! However, you will not have HDR and what I think is even a bigger loss is the WCG that's tagging along with HDR. Seeing richer, higher fidelity colors along with High Dynamic Range (HDR) is very impressive and this will really change the way we see Hollywood movies in a big way.

Unfortunately you will likely need a 10bit panel and the TV manufacturer's schedule to update and the HDMI chip set will need to pass 18Gbps and of course, we'll the software to see HDR and P3, DCI or rec. 2020 color. Here's a list of the only 2015 TVs that are committed to get HDR and WCG upgrades:

Samsung's:

- JS7000 series available in 50", 55" and 60"
- JS8500 series available in 48", 55 and 65"
- JS8600 series available in 78"
- JS9000 series available in 48", 55 and 65"
- JS9100 series available in 78"
- JS9500 series available in 65", 78" and 88"

Sony's:

- XBR-65X930C 65"
- XBR-75X940C 75"

LG:

- EG9600 series available in 55" and 65"

LG is upgrading their new 2015 EG9600 series of 4K OLED TVs to display HDR and WCG on all streamed services from Netflix, Amazon Instant Video and M-Go, but not over the HDMI input so 4K BD will play fine in 3840x2160 resolution, but in SDR and rec. 709 color.

LG, Sharp and possibly other manufacturers may also have HDR and WCG updates planned for some of the flagship models and I'll report back as I confirm others and hope members will add what they know. These very recent UHD technology advancements are so knew that the details and information are just beginning to emerge.

Hopefully this holiday season Santa will bring us 4K HDR/WCG Blu-ray players and software. So our beloved a/v will enter a new era filled with fun in Hollywood, Indie films, documentaries, home 4K video capture, and an unlimited content selections streamed from many sources all in glorious 4K with HDR/WCG.

Blu-ray entertainment is about to explode with exceptional advancements in audio and video performance.

-Robert

[AParsh]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

APash, thanks for the very good question. Here's the facts. You will LOVE UHD Blu-ray on your 8bit 75" HU8550! However, you will not have HDR and what I think is even a bigger loss is the WCG that's tagging along with HDR. Seeing richer, higher fidelity colors along with High Dynamic Range (HDR) is very impressive and this will really change the way we see Hollywood movies in a big way.
-Robert

Robert, you are the man! Thanks for getting back to me so fast. For $2600 including shipping to my door, it seems the 75" HU8550 is a good deal for today then. I can definitely wait 2-3 years for a large OLED display that comes down to what i consider a reasonable price. I'll miss out on HDR, but at least i'll be able to stream netflix 4k "today" and watch UHD B-R in the near future (just not as perfect as it could be).

Thanks again.

[AParsh]

For anyone that gets to this thread looking for answers regarding hte Samsung HU8550 - i've learned more information. Samsung released 2 versions of the HU8550 in the US; the first version (early 2014) was 8bit and did not have HDCP 2.2, the second version (mid-late 2014) is 10bit and has HDCP 2.2. I was going to buy the 8bit one until i found out about the HDCP 2.2 missing. I was also informed that netflix will be switching their 4k streaming to require HDCP 2.2 early next year. The lack of HDCP 2.2 becomes a dealbreaker for me at that point.

[Robert Zohn]

Where did you learn this? I cannot confirm any panel upgrade.

-Robert

[Robert Zohn]

I just confirmed that no UN75HU8550s were ever made with 10bit panels.

Also I don't think Netflix will require HDCP 2.2 as this copy protection is implemented with HDMI 1.4 and higher protocol and not available on streamed content. So don't worry about streaming Netflix 4K on any UHD TV.

-Robert