HDR Discussion Thread

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

It’s more complex than this outline –



In the last step of Dolby Vision color grading, the post production facility typically creates a UHD Dolby Vision mezzanine master (MXF 12-Bit RGB JPEG2000 file + an XML) and OTT content creators like Netflix, etc. like to have it then formatted into an IMF file (depending on the frame rate either IMF Main Level 7, Sub-level 4 or IMF Main Level 6, Sub-level 3 (see p.7 - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B37...5sMzNwcmc/view )

after which the mastering operator runs it thru a 2nd party encoder like a Dolby Vision supported Beamr encoder - https://beamr.com/vanguard-by-beamr-...hevc-codec-sdk and from that Dolby Vision IMF master, the home deliverable files are derived. As per my post above about UHD HDR streaming content, even though the transport into peoples’ homes is 10-bit HEVC, the 12-bit ICtCp mastering fidelity is maintained.

Well, yeah. It's not the encoding into a 10-bit transport stream(s) that I'm quibbling, that's just how DV works in the home (they even had 8-bit transport streams in earlier profiles) and I'm not sure I said anything to contravene that.

It's the underlying content at the master level coming up short regarding bit depth which is the issue here and I don't think that that can be argued with, no matter how much anyone would like to spin it. Kris Deering made note of Saving Private Ryan in one thread or another, saying that it's one of the few DV discs out there with true 12-bit depth from capture to master to final output.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Well, yeah. It's not the encoding into a 10-bit transport stream(s) that I'm quibbling, that's just how DV works in the home (they even had 8-bit transport streams in earlier profiles) and I'm not sure I said anything to contravene that.

It's the underlying content at the master level coming up short regarding bit depth which is the issue here and I don't think that that can be argued with, no matter how much anyone would like to spin it. Kris Deering made note of Saving Private Ryan in one thread or another, saying that it's one of the few DV discs out there with true 12-bit depth from capture to master to final output.

Not really contravening you. Primarily expanding upon exactly what I quoted from your post and the fact that some ICtCp color benefit is carried over using the single layer Dolby Vision 10-bit profile for streaming application even if the deliverable is 10-bit HEVC.

As far as Saving Private Ryan goes, I’m actually a little discouraged to hear that, as I’d thought given Steve Spielberg’s stature and the significance of the movie (what did that guy who writes for Forbes call it – ‘Saving Private Ryan is not just one of Steven Spielberg’s best films, it’s also one of the best war films ever made') that a 16-bit scan of the film elements (value of - https://issuu.com/sonyprofessional/docs/ca_hdr_excerpt)
would have been performed since more and more facilities, ex. https://twitter.com/gothamphotochem/...26607266889730 can offer that service.

[Geoff D]

Shame that ICtCp only applies to streaming though. Geoffy doesn't stream.

I think SPR *was* done at 16-bit for the scan, my point is that the 12 bit depth so prized by DV aficionadoes was maintained at every stage of the mastering process for video.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Shame that ICtCp only applies to streaming though. Geoffy doesn't stream....

See the last line in the relatively non-thank you’d post - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...t#post15516925

[Geoff D]

Still doesn't help with UHD Blu-ray discs right this second though, does it? Want it now

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Note to our Hawaiian membership....If you’re in the area, stop over and send us....

a pic of the movie set. I’m informed that ‘NS’ is code for the Midway (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6924650/) production.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Still doesn't help with UHD Blu-ray discs right this second though, does it? Want it now

And I want Steedeel back in the British & Irish Football Thread and see more activity there right now; otherwise I have to move on to greener pastures and make posts like the following ->

[Penton-Man]

Off topic, but I don’t have time to search and this thread gets a lot of exposure. Tonight is Thursday Night football. Is anyone here a Baltimore Ravens (even better yet, an old Baltimore Colts) fan and if so, where do you post on the forum? Better defense. Quarterback possibilites, I could go on.

[BrownianMotion]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Off topic, but I don’t have time to search and this thread gets a lot of exposure. Tonight is Thursday Night football. Is anyone here a Baltimore Ravens (even better yet, an old Baltimore Colts) fan and if so, where do you post on the forum? Better defense. Quarterback possibilites, I could go on.

Not a fan, but they're getting destroyed by the Bengals so far.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

And I want Steedeel back in the British & Irish Football Thread and see more activity there right now; otherwise I have to move on to greener pastures and make posts like the following ->

Speaking for myself, it's the case of same old story when it comes to Palace and I can't be bothered with that thread lately, I'm just repeating myself over and over. And with all due respect to posters past and present I don't give a toss about what the big teams are doing any more so I'm not interested in discussing them either, even Mourinho's schtick has become terminally boring.

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by DanBa

Yes.

As far as I understand, the dynamic metadata are the input parameters for the Dolby Vision Display Management performing the tone and gamut mapping.
Without the input parameters, the Display Management uses the default parameters.

So with the default parameters, it's not really going to look very different to the HDR10 core would it? [guess this depends on how your TV normally tone-maps!]

All it's doing is using Dolby's static tone-mapping algorithm for the HDR10 content being played, instead of the TV manufacturer's one?

So it is correct that this [forcing the Oppo to "DV mode" for HDR10 content] isn't converting it to dolby vision, or outputting it "in dolby vision". It's just "kidnapping" dolby vision's tonemapper, and using it in "non dynamic mode" for HDR10 content?

[DanBa]

Apparently, one of the advantages of the Dolby Vision’s tone mapper is the conversion from Non-Constant Luminance YCbCr to Constant Luminance ICtCp, necessary for a higher quality color volume mapping to serve the diversity of HDR displays than the legacy YCbCr.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20150248747

[PaulGo]

Nice introductory tutorial on display technology:

Best Display Tech - QLED/OLED/MicroLED - YouTube

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

So with the default parameters, it's not really going to look very different to the HDR10 core would it? [guess this depends on how your TV normally tone-maps!]

All it's doing is using Dolby's static tone-mapping algorithm for the HDR10 content being played, instead of the TV manufacturer's one?

So it is correct that this [forcing the Oppo to "DV mode" for HDR10 content] isn't converting it to dolby vision, or outputting it "in dolby vision". It's just "kidnapping" dolby vision's tonemapper, and using it in "non dynamic mode" for HDR10 content?

That's exactly what the forced DV is doing, it should be obvious that it can't create dynamic metadata out of thin air, although if it does indeed use ICtCp as its processing space then that could help to clean up YCbCr-related colour compression anomalies (which, to speak of actual DV content, may be why I see such dreadful chroma compression on the HDR10 layers of SPR and Last Jedi while the full DV playback looks much cleaner).

As for the mapping just look at the glowing testimonies from OLED owners, how forced DV is killing the in-built HDR10 mapping of those sets - NOT because it's performing any heroics but because it's applying a competent tone map.

[DanBa]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

dolby vision's tonemapper

Apparently, some more info on the Dolby Vision Display Management:
"(Display Management) processor 204.
DM processor may take the source data and/or metadata that may affect the rendering of the image and/or video data at a downstream media processor or a display device. For example, DM processor 204 may comprise modules and/or methods that affect tone mapping (TM); Color Appearance (CAM) and/or Image Appearance; and/or gamut mapping."
https://patents.google.com/patent/US9819974
https://www.google.fr/search?q=color...hrome&ie=UTF-8

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by BrownianMotion

Not a fan, but they're getting destroyed by the Bengals so far.

I’ve only gotten thru the 1st half and it’s not looking good .

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Note to our Hawaiian membership....If you’re in the area, stop over and send us a pic....

Getting set-up to film a scene for Midway with a cemetery in the background….



Courtesy: Carolyn

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Courtesy: Carolyn

b.t.w., for those of you who are night owls and like reading the forums on your iPad and such and think that afterwards you’re guaranteed falling asleep quickly because you’re protected by wearing dem blue blocker glasses, well,

think again….https://www.ies.org/fires/melanopic-...-side-of-blue/ (an article by Ian Ashdown P. Eng. (Ret.) who co-designed and built the very first HDR display (the DR37-P) for BrightSide Technologies in 2005). For those unfamiliar, Dolby Laboratories acquired BrightSide Technologies in 2007.

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

That's exactly what the forced DV is doing, it should be obvious that it can't create dynamic metadata out of thin air, although if it does indeed use ICtCp as its processing space then that could help to clean up YCbCr-related colour compression anomalies (which, to speak of actual DV content, may be why I see such dreadful chroma compression on the HDR10 layers of SPR and Last Jedi while the full DV playback looks much cleaner).

As for the mapping just look at the glowing testimonies from OLED owners, how forced DV is killing the in-built HDR10 mapping of those sets - NOT because it's performing any heroics but because it's applying a competent tone map.

Basically non-Oppo users are screwed

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Courtesy: Carolyn

With regards to another action movie with an armed forces theme deserving of a Dolby Vision grade with IMF package (https://pta.netflixstudios.com/participating-products ), wondering if anyone in the next few weeks will be submitting a pic of the set/crew/actors for this long awaited motion picture…..https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...y#post15507142