Sony XBR4 and XBR5... in-store displays' horrible refresh issues - Blu-ray Forum

Zaphod · 09-18-2007, 03:28 AM

I was just wondering if anyone has the new Sony XBR4's or XBR5's. I have gone to 4 or 5 Circuit City's and all of the one's displayed have had a serious refresh issue. The TV's were hooked up directly to a PS3 and were running at 1080p via (everybody's favorite) a HDMI Monster Cable (Ultra THX 1000). They were showing POTC 1. While watching nothing more than the first scene as Jack Sparrow is coming in to Port Royale on his ship the background and even the main shot's where the camera pans across the ship docked in the port and those on the dock watching Jack come in was horribly blurred and ghosted. This continued throughout the movie as I watched it. This was also noticable in the sails of Jacks ship as they blew in the wind. I was so set on purchasing this TV then I watched that and was like wow this is really bad.

I was wondering if someone has seen this as well. It really detracted from the picture and all I could see was this flaw. After a few minutes it even started hurting my eyes. You would think that Sony would have seen this and done something about it before they produced them. Then they popped in Ant Bully and there was no problems there. Then they put in Casino Royale, and again the refresh issues! Argh!

Also the other thing I noticed was that the screen looked too good and the colors seemed a little too vivid. It was almost like I wasn't watching a movie (if that makes any sense). I don't know if it was the brightness of the panel but I didn't care for it at all.

BigRick · 09-18-2007, 03:36 AM

I Have The XBR4 and Have No Problems What So Ever. Do You Know If They Had The 24fps Function On?

CptGreedle · 09-18-2007, 03:42 AM

Ok. I can not say if that is a refresh issue or something to do with the film or the connections. It is possible it is not conected properly, happens quite often in stores (they are suppose to know and think they do but don't).
But as for the viid colors... this is typical of ALL TVs. In order to try to sell the TVs when standing side by side in a display in a store, the factories purposefully set the colors to be very bright and vivid, so the colors are exaggerated and pop out. I think it lookds bad.
NEVER judge a TV by the display model. If you want to see a good representation of the TV, go to a store that has a calibrated system. You can find these in places such as The Big Screen Store, Tweeters, even the Magnolia center in Best Buy. If you ask to see a calibrated/optimized systen or TV, they often have some in seperate rooms. These havethe colors properly adjusted by pros with special gadgets and will make the pictures look much much better. They also make sure everything is hooked up right.
So don't think the refresh rate is off, or the colors are bad... it's the set-up. I garuntee it will look fantastic in a calibrated set-up.

BigRick · 09-18-2007, 03:45 AM

Yeah I Think The PS3 Is Not Set Up Right. Sony Has Released Quite A Couple Of Firmware Upgrades. So I Think Those PS3's Are Not Set To The Full Potential

coolmilo · 09-18-2007, 03:44 AM

I have the 46 XBR4 and it is awesome. There are a bunch of settings for this LCD that when adjusted properly make the picture look sweeeeeeeeeet. There is a thread on AVSforum that discusses XBR4 calibration that's worth a look. I am very happy with my purchase.

I also examined the XBR4 at a CE store and they had the settings whacked and as a result the video had serious lag and other problems that go away when adjusted correctly.

The XBR4 has terrific reviews and is considered one of the best TV's on the planet.

daisuke149 · 09-18-2007, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaphod

I was just wondering if anyone has the new Sony XBR4's or XBR5's. I have gone to 4 or 5 Circuit City's and all of the one's displayed have had a serious refresh issue. The TV's were hooked up directly to a PS3 and were running at 1080p via (everybody's favorite) a HDMI Monster Cable (Ultra THX 1000). They were showing POTC 1. While watching nothing more than the first scene as Jack Sparrow is coming in to Port Royale on his ship the background and even the main shot's where the camera pans across the ship docked in the port and those on the dock watching Jack come in was horribly blurred and ghosted. This continued throughout the movie as I watched it. This was also noticable in the sails of Jacks ship as they blew in the wind. I was so set on purchasing this TV then I watched that and was like wow this is really bad.

I was wondering if someone has seen this as well. It really detracted from the picture and all I could see was this flaw. After a few minutes it even started hurting my eyes. You would think that Sony would have seen this and done something about it before they produced them. Then they popped in Ant Bully and there was no problems there. Then they put in Casino Royale, and again the refresh issues! Argh!

Also the other thing I noticed was that the screen looked too good and the colors seemed a little too vivid. It was almost like I wasn't watching a movie (if that makes any sense). I don't know if it was the brightness of the panel but I didn't care for it at all.

take this to heart. unless you personally know the person working at the store isnt a idiot. Dont ever trust an what you see or hear at a bestbuy or circuit city.

half the time their not setup correctly and the morons who work there try to make adjustments themselves making em worse. You should try at least going into the settings and reseting them and see what difference it makes if they were tampering with it.

CptGreedle · 09-18-2007, 03:50 AM

Also, on top of the fact that the system is not calibrated or optimized and possibly connected improperly, remember you are probably looking at content that is being displayed on about 20 other TVs at the same time. These is just begging for signal degradation and other issues. By splitting the signal so many ways, you are likely going to see compression error, delays in timing, softness, grainy images, pixelization, etc.
Look at the system else where. Never EVER buy a system in a store based on how it looks in the floor display.

Lopan · 09-18-2007, 03:59 AM

The XBR4 is on my to get list because it has the HDMI 1.3 now. The refresh rate is I think at 120hz so it can't be that bad right? Anyway, I really hope this tv has good reviews because it would really bring me down for I put off on the the XBR3 for the 4.

bluskiff · 09-18-2007, 04:36 AM

I have a 46 xbr2 when I got it it had clouding,flash lights and and the blacks sucked running the shit out of it for three weeks now it is like a completely different set. The blacks are way deeper they were kinda dark grey when I first got it. The tv is really breaking in nice to bad sony put a firmware update in it that is a kind of autodim to hide the clouding problems it used to have. Trying to watch starwars is nuts with every time the dark star sceens come on the set dims and then brightens when ships cross the screen. A real mess I have a 50sxrd coming to replace it. I wanted a xbr for so long and now I have to send it back.

doctorsteve · 09-18-2007, 04:47 AM

I googled xbr4 review, and a site that came up said that the xbr4 (like most of the new tvs) failed to detect the source and upconvert to 24fps. fyi

john_1958 · 09-20-2007, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaphod

I was just wondering if anyone has the new Sony XBR4's or XBR5's. I have gone to 4 or 5 Circuit City's and all of the one's displayed have had a serious refresh issue. The TV's were hooked up directly to a PS3 and were running at 1080p via (everybody's favorite) a HDMI Monster Cable (Ultra THX 1000). They were showing POTC 1. While watching nothing more than the first scene as Jack Sparrow is coming in to Port Royale on his ship the background and even the main shot's where the camera pans across the ship docked in the port and those on the dock watching Jack come in was horribly blurred and ghosted. This continued throughout the movie as I watched it. This was also noticable in the sails of Jacks ship as they blew in the wind. I was so set on purchasing this TV then I watched that and was like wow this is really bad.

I was wondering if someone has seen this as well. It really detracted from the picture and all I could see was this flaw. After a few minutes it even started hurting my eyes. You would think that Sony would have seen this and done something about it before they produced them. Then they popped in Ant Bully and there was no problems there. Then they put in Casino Royale, and again the refresh issues! Argh!

Also the other thing I noticed was that the screen looked too good and the colors seemed a little too vivid. It was almost like I wasn't watching a movie (if that makes any sense). I don't know if it was the brightness of the panel but I didn't care for it at all.

I still would buy xbr4 or 5
vivid colours are what makes set look great even if you toned down

stores never have tvs configured to tvs true potential

but i liked the bravia promothat i saw in sony store

john_1958 · 10-02-2007, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaphod

I was just wondering if anyone has the new Sony XBR4's or XBR5's. I have gone to 4 or 5 Circuit City's and all of the one's displayed have had a serious refresh issue. The TV's were hooked up directly to a PS3 and were running at 1080p via (everybody's favorite) a HDMI Monster Cable (Ultra THX 1000). They were showing POTC 1. While watching nothing more than the first scene as Jack Sparrow is coming in to Port Royale on his ship the background and even the main shot's where the camera pans across the ship docked in the port and those on the dock watching Jack come in was horribly blurred and ghosted. This continued throughout the movie as I watched it. This was also noticable in the sails of Jacks ship as they blew in the wind. I was so set on purchasing this TV then I watched that and was like wow this is really bad.

I was wondering if someone has seen this as well. It really detracted from the picture and all I could see was this flaw. After a few minutes it even started hurting my eyes. You would think that Sony would have seen this and done something about it before they produced them. Then they popped in Ant Bully and there was no problems there. Then they put in Casino Royale, and again the refresh issues! Argh!

Also the other thing I noticed was that the screen looked too good and the colors seemed a little too vivid. It was almost like I wasn't watching a movie (if that makes any sense). I don't know if it was the brightness of the panel but I didn't care for it at all.

no you are not making any sense
they probulay got bad cables and worse settings because i saw casino royale and pirates there was no problem

vivid colors look great especially when reconfigured

JoJo23223 · 10-02-2007, 05:18 PM

That TV is just pulled out of the box and set on the Stand. None of the settings are messed with. I have seen the tv and it isnt the cables or anything like that. It is the settings that it is set on. That tv is too advanced for movies because it can do faster refresh rates.

SS316SRV · 10-02-2007, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoJo23223

That TV is just pulled out of the box and set on the Stand. None of the settings are messed with. I have seen the tv and it isnt the cables or anything like that. It is the settings that it is set on. That tv is too advanced for movies because it can do faster refresh rates.

That is interesting. I am pretty sure LCDs are having a hard time getting it right. Either they are too slow and show motion blur, or they are to fast. Whether or not you hate plasmas, at least their refresh rate is perfect.

dogger114 · 10-02-2007, 05:45 PM

I just purchased the 52 inch XBR4 and I love it. Here is a review that I saw today on CNET on the 47 inch XBR4. They say it is the best LCD to date.

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-t...cnetfd.bubbl_3

HDTV1080P · 10-03-2007, 10:06 AM

For 1080P/24 to be refreshed correctly at multiplies of the original frame on the Sony’s you must turn off Motion Enhancer. Turning on Motion Enhancer at the HDMI input where the 1080P/24 BLU-RAY or HD-DVD player is connected will result in interpolation of new frames instead of repeating each frame multiply times.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=253042&postcount=212

Also this following link is a really good review with a lot of in-depth information on the Sony KDL-46XBR4 LCD

http://ultimateavmag.com/flatpaneldisplays/907sonyxbr4/index.html

GTsmokeya · 10-05-2007, 07:52 AM

omg just get a new monster 1000 cabel from cc it has the same specs as the 1200 at the bb and is less in price it offers 120hz certification, stop being cheap and buying lowerend cables for your sony xbr it makes no sense.

GTsmokeya

Petra_Kalbrain · 10-06-2007, 09:58 PM

If you are going to judge a Sony TV based on its displayed units... GO TO A SONY STORE!!! They are guaranteed to have it setup properly. Otherwise, it has probably been setup by some 15 yr old pimpled part-time high school employee that thinks he knows what he's doing. Trust me, I've seen Sony units displayed in almost every major retailer chain and they never do Sony TVs justice like they do in an ACTUAL SONY STORE.

Amel · 10-06-2007, 10:12 PM

4665F Baby!

Bravia1 · 10-27-2007, 06:38 AM

Sorry to say buy your assumptions on the way the motion enhancer mechanism works are incorrect. Motion Enhancer will work on either 24p or 60p as well off the air 30i (60i if you must) signals. this is done by creating new frames based on the movement of the existing frames. These frames are then inserted at the proper space and time on the cadence. In basic terms the engine will create 2 frames for 60hz signals and 4 frames for 24p if the consumer wishes to engage the enhancer on. Turning off Motion Enhancer completely disables this process and the tv becomes a 60hz television with the regular 2:3 pulldown process. The standard setting on Motion Enhancer is a selective process whereby the cadence reported by Cinemotion(2:3 processor)will activate/deactivate the effect based on content. This will cause almost non existing halo effect as described on the thread since less data from the source is required for this process.
I hope this clears some of the confusion and we can all go back to our homes and enjoy our televisions as they are intended to be.
By the way, the TV is also capable of displaying sources at their native 24p rate (AKA BD) through HDMI. IF you choose "Direct" or Native mode on the BD Player the TV will display these images at their native frame rate if desired. Under these circumstances please feel free to deactivate Motion Enhancer or press "theater mode" onthe remote and the TV will become a 24P monitor for the respective source.

09-18-2007, 03:28 AM	#1
Zaphod Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Apr 2007 Location:A small planet somewhere in the vicinity of Betelgeuse. Blu-ray collection:350 Trading Score:4	Sony XBR4 and XBR5... in-store displays' horrible refresh issues I was just wondering if anyone has the new Sony XBR4's or XBR5's. I have gone to 4 or 5 Circuit City's and all of the one's displayed have had a serious refresh issue. The TV's were hooked up directly to a PS3 and were running at 1080p via (everybody's favorite) a HDMI Monster Cable (Ultra THX 1000). They were showing POTC 1. While watching nothing more than the first scene as Jack Sparrow is coming in to Port Royale on his ship the background and even the main shot's where the camera pans across the ship docked in the port and those on the dock watching Jack come in was horribly blurred and ghosted. This continued throughout the movie as I watched it. This was also noticable in the sails of Jacks ship as they blew in the wind. I was so set on purchasing this TV then I watched that and was like wow this is really bad. I was wondering if someone has seen this as well. It really detracted from the picture and all I could see was this flaw. After a few minutes it even started hurting my eyes. You would think that Sony would have seen this and done something about it before they produced them. Then they popped in Ant Bully and there was no problems there. Then they put in Casino Royale, and again the refresh issues! Argh! Also the other thing I noticed was that the screen looked too good and the colors seemed a little too vivid. It was almost like I wasn't watching a movie (if that makes any sense). I don't know if it was the brightness of the panel but I didn't care for it at all. Last edited by Zaphod; 09-18-2007 at 03:37 AM.

09-18-2007, 04:36 AM	#9
bluskiff Expert Member Member since:Jul 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 23	I have a 46 xbr2 when I got it it had clouding,flash lights and and the blacks sucked running the shit out of it for three weeks now it is like a completely different set. The blacks are way deeper they were kinda dark grey when I first got it. The tv is really breaking in nice to bad sony put a firmware update in it that is a kind of autodim to hide the clouding problems it used to have. Trying to watch starwars is nuts with every time the dark star sceens come on the set dims and then brightens when ships cross the screen. A real mess I have a 50sxrd coming to replace it. I wanted a xbr for so long and now I have to send it back. Last edited by bluskiff; 09-18-2007 at 04:38 AM.

09-18-2007, 04:47 AM	#10
doctorsteve Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Apr 2007 Location:Tonawanda, NY Home Theater Gallery:15 Blu-ray collection:188 Blu-ray reviews:16	fault w/ xbr4 I googled xbr4 review, and a site that came up said that the xbr4 (like most of the new tvs) failed to detect the source and upconvert to 24fps. fyi

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09-18-2007, 03:36 AM	#2
BigRick Special Member Member since:Mar 2007 Location:ANAHEIM, CA Trading Score:3	I Have The XBR4 and Have No Problems What So Ever. Do You Know If They Had The 24fps Function On?

09-18-2007, 03:42 AM	#3
CptGreedle Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Sworn super-hero now services Atlanta (and suburbs). Blu-ray collection:128 Blu-ray reviews:5	Ok. I can not say if that is a refresh issue or something to do with the film or the connections. It is possible it is not conected properly, happens quite often in stores (they are suppose to know and think they do but don't). But as for the viid colors... this is typical of ALL TVs. In order to try to sell the TVs when standing side by side in a display in a store, the factories purposefully set the colors to be very bright and vivid, so the colors are exaggerated and pop out. I think it lookds bad. NEVER judge a TV by the display model. If you want to see a good representation of the TV, go to a store that has a calibrated system. You can find these in places such as The Big Screen Store, Tweeters, even the Magnolia center in Best Buy. If you ask to see a calibrated/optimized systen or TV, they often have some in seperate rooms. These havethe colors properly adjusted by pros with special gadgets and will make the pictures look much much better. They also make sure everything is hooked up right. So don't think the refresh rate is off, or the colors are bad... it's the set-up. I garuntee it will look fantastic in a calibrated set-up.

09-18-2007, 03:45 AM	#4
BigRick Special Member Member since:Mar 2007 Location:ANAHEIM, CA Trading Score:3	Yeah I Think The PS3 Is Not Set Up Right. Sony Has Released Quite A Couple Of Firmware Upgrades. So I Think Those PS3's Are Not Set To The Full Potential

09-18-2007, 03:44 AM	#5
coolmilo Blu-ray Guru Member since:Jan 2007 Location:Silicon Valley Home Theater Gallery:16 Blu-ray reviews:2 Trading Score:2	I have the 46 XBR4 and it is awesome. There are a bunch of settings for this LCD that when adjusted properly make the picture look sweeeeeeeeeet. There is a thread on AVSforum that discusses XBR4 calibration that's worth a look. I am very happy with my purchase. I also examined the XBR4 at a CE store and they had the settings whacked and as a result the video had serious lag and other problems that go away when adjusted correctly. The XBR4 has terrific reviews and is considered one of the best TV's on the planet.

09-18-2007, 03:50 AM	#7
CptGreedle Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Sworn super-hero now services Atlanta (and suburbs). Blu-ray collection:128 Blu-ray reviews:5	Also, on top of the fact that the system is not calibrated or optimized and possibly connected improperly, remember you are probably looking at content that is being displayed on about 20 other TVs at the same time. These is just begging for signal degradation and other issues. By splitting the signal so many ways, you are likely going to see compression error, delays in timing, softness, grainy images, pixelization, etc. Look at the system else where. Never EVER buy a system in a store based on how it looks in the floor display.

09-18-2007, 03:59 AM	#8
Lopan Special Member Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Planet Earth Home Theater Gallery:9 4K collection:161 Blu-ray collection:694 DVD collection:22 Blu-ray reviews: 5	The XBR4 is on my to get list because it has the HDMI 1.3 now. The refresh rate is I think at 120hz so it can't be that bad right? Anyway, I really hope this tv has good reviews because it would really bring me down for I put off on the the XBR3 for the 4.

10-02-2007, 05:18 PM	#13
JoJo23223 New Member Member since:Oct 2007	That TV is just pulled out of the box and set on the Stand. None of the settings are messed with. I have seen the tv and it isnt the cables or anything like that. It is the settings that it is set on. That tv is too advanced for movies because it can do faster refresh rates.

10-02-2007, 05:45 PM	#15
dogger114 Active Member Member since:Aug 2007 Location:Rockland, MA Home Theater Gallery:8 Blu-ray collection:1019 Blu-ray reviews:1	I just purchased the 52 inch XBR4 and I love it. Here is a review that I saw today on CNET on the 47 inch XBR4. They say it is the best LCD to date. http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-t...cnetfd.bubbl_3

10-03-2007, 10:06 AM	#16
HDTV1080P Blu-ray Champion Top contributor Member since:Jan 2007 Blu-ray reviews: 205	For 1080P/24 to be refreshed correctly at multiplies of the original frame on the Sony’s you must turn off Motion Enhancer. Turning on Motion Enhancer at the HDMI input where the 1080P/24 BLU-RAY or HD-DVD player is connected will result in interpolation of new frames instead of repeating each frame multiply times. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=253042&postcount=212 Also this following link is a really good review with a lot of in-depth information on the Sony KDL-46XBR4 LCD http://ultimateavmag.com/flatpaneldisplays/907sonyxbr4/index.html

10-05-2007, 07:52 AM	#17
GTsmokeya Active Member Member since:Aug 2007	omg just get a new monster 1000 cabel from cc it has the same specs as the 1200 at the bb and is less in price it offers 120hz certification, stop being cheap and buying lowerend cables for your sony xbr it makes no sense. GTsmokeya

10-06-2007, 09:58 PM	#18
Petra_Kalbrain Blu-ray Archduke Top contributor Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Vancouver, BC 4K collection:5 Blu-ray collection:561 Blu-ray reviews:3 Trading Score:20	If you are going to judge a Sony TV based on its displayed units... GO TO A SONY STORE!!! They are guaranteed to have it setup properly. Otherwise, it has probably been setup by some 15 yr old pimpled part-time high school employee that thinks he knows what he's doing. Trust me, I've seen Sony units displayed in almost every major retailer chain and they never do Sony TVs justice like they do in an ACTUAL SONY STORE.

10-06-2007, 10:12 PM	#19
Amel Special Member Member since:Jun 2007 Location:Clearwater FL Blu-ray collection:91 Blu-ray reviews:2 Trading Score:2	4665F Baby!

10-27-2007, 06:38 AM	#20
Bravia1 New Member Member since:Oct 2007	Sorry to say buy your assumptions on the way the motion enhancer mechanism works are incorrect. Motion Enhancer will work on either 24p or 60p as well off the air 30i (60i if you must) signals. this is done by creating new frames based on the movement of the existing frames. These frames are then inserted at the proper space and time on the cadence. In basic terms the engine will create 2 frames for 60hz signals and 4 frames for 24p if the consumer wishes to engage the enhancer on. Turning off Motion Enhancer completely disables this process and the tv becomes a 60hz television with the regular 2:3 pulldown process. The standard setting on Motion Enhancer is a selective process whereby the cadence reported by Cinemotion(2:3 processor)will activate/deactivate the effect based on content. This will cause almost non existing halo effect as described on the thread since less data from the source is required for this process. I hope this clears some of the confusion and we can all go back to our homes and enjoy our televisions as they are intended to be. By the way, the TV is also capable of displaying sources at their native 24p rate (AKA BD) through HDMI. IF you choose "Direct" or Native mode on the BD Player the TV will display these images at their native frame rate if desired. Under these circumstances please feel free to deactivate Motion Enhancer or press "theater mode" onthe remote and the TV will become a 24P monitor for the respective source.

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