Warner Brothers and DTS-HD MA 2.0 Incompetence...?

[fitprod]

Before you ask, I have a Panasonic BD55 (Current firmware...) connected to a Pioneer Elite SC07 via HDMI.

I had blown this off as just a limited run of titles, where some audio engineer just may have screwed up, but this is actual incompetence at Warner Brothers...

Over the past couple of years, Warner Brothers has issued at least 10 titles with DTS-HD MA 2.0 audio. Of those titles I own the following:

Presumed Innocent/Frantic (Both Encoded DTS-HD MA 2.0 LT/RT)
Funny Farm/Spies Like Us (Both Encoded DTS-HD MA 2.0 LT/RT)
Grumpy Old Men/Grumpier Old Men (1st title is Encoded DTS-HD MA 2.0 LT/RT)
Bloodsport/Timecop (1st title is Encoded DTS-HD MA 2.0 L/R)

And now...
Next of Kin (As with the rest noted, Encoded DTS-HD MA 2.0 LT/RT)

What do they have in common? None of the soundtracks, excluding Presumed Innocent and Bloodsport, output audio. The receiver even sees a DTS-HD MA signal, but there is no sound output. So out of 7 films, only 2 work. They fail to the point that the menu audio doesn't even work...

I could blow this off as an equipment issue, but everything else that I own, that includes DTS-HD MA audio, be it 1.0 to 7.1 works, from any other studio works. (Hell, the 5.1 audio streams for the the other titles on the double feature discs work, so it definitely not an equipment problem...)

Who's cage do I have to rattle to get WB corrects their encoding process?

fitprod

[mzupeman]

Originally Posted by fitprod

Before you ask, I have a Panasonic BD55 (Current firmware...) connected to a Pioneer Elite SC07 via HDMI.

I had blown this off as just a limited run of titles, where some audio engineer just may have screwed up, but this is actual incompetence at Warner Brothers...

Over the past couple of years, Warner Brothers has issued at least 10 titles with DTS-HD MA 2.0 audio. Of those titles I own the following:

Presumed Innocent/Frantic (Both Encoded DTS-HD MA 2.0 LT/RT)
Funny Farm/Spies Like Us (Both Encoded DTS-HD MA 2.0 LT/RT)
Grumpy Old Men/Grumpier Old Men (1st title is Encoded DTS-HD MA 2.0 LT/RT)
Bloodsport/Timecop (1st title is Encoded DTS-HD MA 2.0 L/R)

And now...
Next of Kin (As with the rest noted, Encoded DTS-HD MA 2.0 LT/RT)

What do they have in common? None of the soundtracks, excluding Presumed Innocent and Bloodsport, output audio. The receiver even sees a DTS-HD MA signal, but there is no sound output. So out of 7 films, only 2 work. They fail to the point that the menu audio doesn't even work...

I could blow this off as an equipment issue, but everything else that I own, that includes DTS-HD MA audio, be it 1.0 to 7.1 works, from any other studio works. (Hell, the 5.1 audio streams for the the other titles on the double feature discs work, so it definitely not an equipment problem...)

Who's cage do I have to rattle to get WB corrects their encoding process?

fitprod

Does switching to LPCM help? Because if it does, it isn't their problem. That's your hardware.

[HD Goofnut]

Sounds like the receiver to me.

[benricci]

Problem's on your end, bud.

[Wingman1977]

Go into your BD player's settings and change it from PCM to bitstream.

[fitprod]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

Sounds like the receiver to me.

If it was a receiver issue, all of my 2.0 DTS-HD MA material would tank.

If everything thing else I have, from other studios works, including DTS-HD MA 1.0, 2.0, 4.0, 4.1 etc, it's an encoding problem.

Also, the fact that two films on the same disc, Presumed Innocent and Frantic, with the same exact configuration, behave differently means it on the encode end.

fitprod

[KubrickFan]

Does anyone else have this problem? If nobody does, then I'm afraid it's still on your end.

[fitprod]

Originally Posted by KubrickFan

Does anyone else have this problem? If nobody does, then I'm afraid it's still on your end.

The only way around it is to set the player to PCM. It's an error in the coding. (My primary job is QCing shit... Never seen this problem anywhere, but on these WB titles...)

Again, if two movies on the same disc are encoded with the same format and configuration, while one works and the other doesn't, it's a software/encoding problem.

fitprod

[mzupeman]

Originally Posted by Wingman1977

Go into your BD player's settings and change it from PCM to bitstream.

Should be the other way around, most likely. I had this problem with the Clash of the Titans (1981) release, also by WB I believe. I also have a Pioneer receiver. Bug switching from one encoding option to the next worked like a charm.

[mzupeman]

Originally Posted by fitprod

If it was a receiver issue, all of my 2.0 DTS-HD MA material would tank.

If everything thing else I have, from other studios works, including DTS-HD MA 1.0, 2.0, 4.0, 4.1 etc, it's an encoding problem.

Also, the fact that two films on the same disc, Presumed Innocent and Frantic, with the same exact configuration, behave differently means it on the encode end.

fitprod

Sometimes Blu-ray players don't play discs and require a firmware update. "But it plays all my other discs so it must be the disc!" No, it's the player.

These things happen, and Pioneer failed to meet whatever specifications WB have used for a while now. You may need to service the receiver to get a firmware upgrade, if Pioneer ever did one. Or, you just might have to let the player decode those particular titles which is no big deal.

Don't come in here, ask for help, and tell us we're all wrong. You're not likely to receive help ever again by acting that way. It is what it is. Call Pioneer or don't. What do we care? It isn't your discs!

[fitprod]

Originally Posted by mzupeman

Sometimes Blu-ray players don't play discs and require a firmware update. "But it plays all my other discs so it must be the disc!" No, it's the player.

Yeah sure, I haven't been around long enough to remember when Yamaha receivers suffered from audio problems in the early days of Dolby Digital with Braveheart... The second or third disc DD ever manufactured.

These things happen, and Pioneer failed to meet whatever specifications WB have used for a while now. You may need to service the receiver to get a firmware upgrade, if Pioneer ever did one. Or, you just might have to let the player decode those particular titles which is no big deal.

Don't come in here, ask for help, and tell us we're all wrong. You're not likely to receive help ever again by acting that way. It is what it is. Call Pioneer or don't. What do we care? It isn't your discs!

So, I get it... Fox, Sony, Disney, Paramount et all have DTS-HD MA 2.0 soundtracks that work, but since WB discs don't it's Pioneer's fault? Again, explain that to me... Especially since Presumed Innocent with DTS-HD MA 2.0 works, yet Frantic with DTS-HD MA 2.0 audio doesn't... On the same disc.

BTW, thanks for the advice... And the attitude.

fitprod

[mzupeman]

Originally Posted by fitprod

Yeah sure, I haven't been around long enough to remember when Yamaha receivers suffered from audio problems in the early days of Dolby Digital with Braveheart... The second or third disc DD ever manufactured.



So, I get it... Fox, Sony, Disney, Paramount et all have DTS-HD MA 2.0 soundtracks that work, but since WB discs don't it's Pioneer's fault? Again, explain that to me... Especially since Presumed Innocent with DTS-HD MA 2.0 works, yet Frantic with DTS-HD MA 2.0 audio doesn't... On the same disc.

BTW, thanks for the advice... And the attitude.

fitprod

You get what you give. What did you honestly expect? You come in here for advice and shoot everyone down because you KNOW what the problem is, despite the fact you're wrong here.

Let me simplify it more for you. A troubleshooting questionnaire, if you will:

So other people own these titles? Yes.

Is everyone who owns these titles having the same problem as you? No.

Your Blu-ray player can decode the audio fine? YES.

When you bitstream to the REVEIVER and let the RECEIVER do the decoding, do you then experience a problem? Yes

Yeah, MUST be the WB's fault!

Sounds like a receiver problem to me!

[fitprod]

Originally Posted by mzupeman

When you bitstream to the REVEIVER and let the RECEIVER do the decoding, do you then experience a problem? Yes

Yeah, MUST be the WB's fault!

Sounds like a receiver problem to me!

What part of two films, same disc, same audio configuration, different results do you not understand?

fitprod

[mzupeman]

Originally Posted by fitprod

What part of two films, same disc, same audio configuration, different results do you not understand?

fitprod

What part of your Blu-ray player decodes it fine yet your receiver can't, don't you understand?

Does it appear that Warner may have a different encoding process that is causing the complication? Yes. But it seems most other receivers from the time your receiver came out didn't have a problem with these titles, and I'll bet you Pioneer, who was known at the time to drop the ball on various audio glitches, has since fixed that error in newer models.

How come most other hardware decodes it fine and yours can't? Because Pioneer didn't do a good enough job. I own a Pioneer myself and it had these issues. There is a firmware upgrade I am incapable of applying, and I refuse to send it out for the upgrade... so I just so the little workaround that had always worked - LPCM.

Other companies had their fair share of problems too - Certain discs would cause certain Onkyo models, because the Onkyo wasn't properly 'prepared', to not decode DTS properly and cause a loud BOOM sound that was likely to blow your speakers. Was that the fault of the encode? No, it was because Onkyo needed to fix their decoding issue and issue a firmware upgrade.

Just one of many examples. Consider it a pain in the butt or a bad investment... but I would call Pioneer and see if a firmware update is available and see what you have to do to have it applied.

[rubystone356]

Over the past couple of years, Warner Brothers has issued at least 10 titles with DTS-HD MA 2.0 audio. Of those titles I own the following:

Presumed Innocent/Frantic (Both Encoded DTS-HD MA 2.0 LT/RT)

fitprod[/QUOTE]

I had no problems playing this title on my oppo 93.

Jacob

[Flex Mentallo]

Take the problem discs to a buddy's house or some high end AV store with lossless audio capabilities. If the problem doesn't recreate itself there then issue must be the hardware.

[seigneur_rayden]

Dude, the problem is with your hardware.
I have a Pioneer AVR and the TimeCop/BloodSport bd. I never had any issues with it. The 2.0 plays just fine and I am bitstreaming.

[Brett C]

I have the same problem with the Presumed Innocent/Frantic disc and
the original Clash Of The Titans.
They play fine when switched to pcm in the players,(Sony BDP-350, OPPO BDP- 93)
but no dice bitstreaming the actual track from either player to a Pioneer AVR.
Bloodsport was fine from what I remember, will have to check again.

I do find it strange that Presumed Innocent plays fine but no go with Frantic and they are on the exact same disc.

[fitprod]

Originally Posted by seigneur_rayden

Dude, the problem is with your hardware.
I have a Pioneer AVR and the TimeCop/BloodSport bd. I never had any issues with it. The 2.0 plays just fine and I am bitstreaming.

That's one of the few that actually works, as noted in my original post. Then again Bloodsport was 2.0 L/R (Stereo) as opposed to 2.0 LT/RT (Surround), which are the problem streams.

fitprod