Any DC Comic Animated fans here able to help with an epic undertaking?

[MasterChief3624]

Okay, I have searched up and down and can not find a better place to post this than this forum right here. If it belongs in the DVD forum, I'm sorry... if it belongs in the Newbie forum, I'm also sorry

Anyways, ever since I started playing Injustice, I have gotten hooked on trying to learn about all these DC superheroes/superheroines. I have picked up a lot of the trade paperbacks, I've read a ton of information online, I changed my text tone to "SHAZAM!" from Injustice, and I have also been picking up the animated films one by one.

But the thing is, I bought the majority of my DC Animated Films when I didn't know they had Blu-ray counterparts... I bought them all on DVD I wouldn't normally care too much, but after reading the Blu-ray review for Green Lantern: First Flight, I'm wondering if I should go ahead and pick up the Blu-rays for these movies I have on DVD, even though they are much more expensive.

So, can someone tell me which of these films I have on DVD would be worth upgrading to Blu-ray for?

Wonder Woman
Green Lantern: First Flight
Batman/Superman: Public Enemies
Batman/Superman: Apocalypse
Superman: Doomsday
Batman Beyond: Return Of the Joker

Like, are there any standouts in this list that have exceptionally better picture quality on the Blu-ray version?

The hardest thing to find out is which of the above, if any, have exclusive features on the Blu-ray as opposed to the DVD... So I'm also interested in that as a reason, but mostly the video quality.

I hope to eventually pick up ALL the DC Animated Movies, too, so should I opt for the Blu-ray version for all of them in the future?

Here is a list of other DVDs I have/want to get, but have not seen anything on Blu-ray releases for them:

Batman: Mask Of the Phantasm
Batman vs. Dracula
Scooby-Doo Meets Batman
Batman: Mystery Of the Batwoman
Batman and Mr. Freeze: Sub-Zero.

Aaaaand... finally, I was wondering about the Justice League Animated Series... Should I opt for the more expensive option of picking up the Blu-ray of Seasons One and Two? Or should I go ahead and pick up the DVD version, which Amazon has for a little over $70, that also includes the entirety of Justice League Unlimited?

...okay, and finally, any word on Batman: The Animated Series making it to Blu-ray? Or will I be safe picking that up on DVD for now?

So sorry for this ridiculous request, but there is so much information in this that I can't possibly take care of it on my own So I thought I'd ask you lovely people on here that know more about the transfers and special features than I ever could!

Bonus round: Here are the DC Animated Films I have picked up on Blu-ray:

Justice League: Doom
The Flashpoint Paradox

...I think that's it

[Batmon77]

Batman: Mask Of the Phantasm
Batman vs. Dracula
Scooby-Doo Meets Batman
Batman: Mystery Of the Batwoman
Batman and Mr. Freeze: Sub-Zero.

u dont need these at all...

[Mandalorian]

Mystery of the Batwoman is on BD, but there are some issues. PQ is still decent though.

[MasterChief3624]

Originally Posted by Batmon77

u dont need these at all...

Wherefore art thou speaketh thine treachery?

Mask of the Phantasm is supposed to be amazing, Scooby-Doo Meets Batman looked fun, and the rest sounded neat to me!

Originally Posted by RJ Smoove

Mystery of the Batwoman is on BD, but there are some issues. PQ is still decent though.

Interesting, I will look into that, then!

[Mandalorian]

Originally Posted by MasterChief3624

Wherefore art thou speaketh thine treachery?

Mask of the Phantasm is supposed to be amazing, Scooby-Doo Meets Batman looked fun, and the rest sounded neat to me!


Interesting, I will look into that, then!

Mask of the Phantasm is great. Not sure why a DC/Batman fan wouldn't like it, unless he just means you don't need it because it isn't on BD.

[KnoxVolJJ]

Here is an upcoming 4 film release but I have yet to see which 4 movies are included: https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/4-Fil...Blu-ray/78310/

The price point will likely be $20 ($5 per movie) at release, with a sale around Christmas.

[Batmon77]

Originally Posted by MasterChief3624

Wherefore art thou speaketh thine treachery?

Mask of the Phantasm is supposed to be amazing

Scooby Doo is a Rental.

Mask is a Classic and is not yet on BluRay. But I saw it in the theatre and im not anticipating its release at all. Im in the minority as a non-fan.

I would really examine why one needs all the DC stuff especially if your not familiar with the universe. Searching on here you see what the cream of the crop are that have very good re-watchability. There's a "best of DC" Animated thread here if u search. That would narrow down your choices.

Injustice which I do have is closest to Flashpoint and Crisis on Infinye Earths which are great stories using the DC alternative universes. The New Frontier is a good take on what was DC's Earth 2 universe, which was the original DC universe before it merged w/ the last remaining Earth after the DC multiverse's destruction. Superboy Prime became Prime which is similar to the Prisoned Superman of the Injustice Regime Superman.

[MasterChief3624]

Originally Posted by KnoxVolJJ

Here is an upcoming 4 film release but I have yet to see which 4 movies are included: https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/4-Fil...Blu-ray/78310/

The price point will likely be $20 ($5 per movie) at release, with a sale around Christmas.

Very interesting. Thank you for that I'll keep my eye on that release.

Originally Posted by Batmon77

Scooby Doo is a Rental.

Mask is a Classic and is not yet on BluRay. But I saw it in the theatre and im not anticipating its release at all. Im in the minority as a non-fan.

I would really examine why one needs all the DC stuff especially if your not familiar with the universe. Searching on here you see what the cream of the crop are that have very good re-watchability. There's a "best of DC" Animated thread here if u search. That would narrow down your choices.

Injustice which I do have is closest to Flashpoint and Crisis on Infinye Earths which are great stories using the DC alternative universes. The New Frontier is a good take on what was DC's Earth 2 universe, which was the original DC universe before it merged w/ the last remaining Earth after the DC multiverse's destruction. Superboy Prime became Prime which is similar to the Prisoned Superman of the Injustice Regime Superman.

I like Scooby-Doo, I like Batman, I wanted Scooby-Doo Meets Batman! It was only $5 at Target, anyways

I looked at that thread just now, thank you for bumping it. It appears I already posted in it, but had yet to receive a response I'll admit I forgot that I posted in that thread, but apparently it didn't matter anyways, since no one responded

Thank you for your informative take on which storylines to focus on since I love Injustice! So is Flashpoint and Flashpoint Paradox a part of the same storyline? Or are they separate? I'm pretty sure I know that

[Show spoiler]Flashpoint Paradox is supposed to dial back the entire DC Universe back to The New 52

, but that's all I know. I hope that isn't too big of a spoiler, though, since I haven't yet seen the movie but will do so very soon

As for why I want to get all of them, well, if the price is right, I would just enjoy having them all, that's all When I get into something, I dive in deep.

Originally Posted by grassmonk

I initially bought a bunch of the DC Universe movies on DVD also (up through Superman/Batman: Apocalypse, I think). A couple years ago WBShop had a Black Friday sale where I was able to pick up the BD versions for about $6 each. (Except for Superman/Batman: Apocalypse. For some reason that one has always stayed expensive, and I eventually found it used from Hastings for about $9 or so.) I sold my DVDs for around $4 or $5 each on eBay.

Granted, that was a lucky deal, but I've seen several times since that the BDs have dropped to around $10 on Amazon, and some have even coincided with Best Buy's Upgrade and Save sales.

Personally, I have enjoyed all of the films except the Green Lantern ones, because I'm just not a Green Lantern fan. Superman: Doomsday is probably the weakest of the list above, but I still liked it.

IIRC Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker has a much better presentation on BD. The DVD is non-anamorphic widescreen and the BD is open-matte 4:3. I'm not really sure about how much of a PQ increase there is on the other films though.

I'm pretty sure that they all have exclusive BD features, too--documentaries and (extra) episodes of the TV shows (Batman: TAS, Justice League, etc.)

I'd say so. The last two releases especially have been cheap. I got Superman: Unbound for $9.99 from Best Buy on release day (with Upgrade & Save), and Justice League: Flashpoint was, I think, $13.99 (from Amazon). At some point they all drop below $10.

Mystery of the Batwoman is on BD. It's not the greatest, but it's enjoyable enough. Mask of the Phantasm is awesome, and Sub-Zero isn't bad, but they're not on BD as you say. If you're interested I'd at least pick up the DVD for Phantasm.

I've seen The Batman vs. Dracula once, because I picked it up for $3 at Big Lots a few years back. I don't remember hating it, but it definitely didn't leave a lasting impression on me. It's from the same continuity as The Batman series from a couple of years ago, which I watched but feel is inferior to Batman: TAS.

Unfortunately, you missed out on Amazon's sale about a month (two months?) ago. Justice League seasons 1 and 2 were $16 each on BD. I bought both, but IMO season 2 is the one that is really worth getting on BD over DVD if for no other reason than the BD is anamorphic widescreen (the DVD is non-anamorphic). I also liked season 2 a lot more than season 1, particularly the season 2 finale. If you want the whole series now, I would personally get the DVD set of the whole series and the season 2 BD separately, assuming price isn't an issue.

I'd pick up the DVDs. They've been pretty cheap lately. Volumes 2-4 are currently ~$19 each on Amazon. Volume 1 is pretty steep at $30, but I think I've seen it at Walmart for $20.

Dang, I have missed so many sales, haha! Maybe I should wait just a tad longer before I go through getting the Blu-rays. If they all have exclusive features and significantly better picture quality, then I'll definitely go for the Blu-ray Blitz on all these!

Interesting to hear that some of them have episodes from the series... I've never seen Batman: The Animated Series, so that would be awesome to get an episode for free with my Blu-ray!

I've seen that there is the issue of non-anamorphic, matted widescreen on the Justice League Season 2 DVD and the Return of the Joker DVD. What is the difference between the two? Is that when the widescreen will show up letterboxed on my 16:9 TV, and stretch out the image? If so, that is insanely frustrating and I will look into those Blu-rays solely for that!

How is Superman: Unbound? I'm really shocked because lately I've been reading impressions of Superman: Doomsday claiming it's one of the weaker animated features, and Superman: Unbound is also weak, but... they both sound really great to me. What are your thoughts?

For that Upgrade & Save program, is there anything stopping me from bringing in my DC Animated DVDs and using those as my upgrade and save thingies? Or are they too cheap to do that?

[TOPDAWG]

Originally Posted by RJ Smoove

Mystery of the Batwoman is on BD, but there are some issues. PQ is still decent though.

its also god awful if I remember right. I remember thinking it sucked so bad when it came out years ago.

[blu-ray_girl_fan]

Originally Posted by TOPDAWG

its also god awful if I remember right. I remember thinking it sucked so bad when it came out years ago.

[blurayfriend]

Originally Posted by TOPDAWG

its also god awful if I remember right. I remember thinking it sucked so bad when it came out years ago.

So true on Mystery of the Batwoman lol. A lot of people don't know this (or maybe they do) but it was created not with any intent of artistic integrity; it was a tie-in to Mattel getting the toy license from Kenner and releasing a new slate of action figures, hence why Penguin and Bane were featured prominently as the villains and why they didn't take it as an opportunity to wrap up the Batman animated universe. I've told this before but I was in a focus group for it before it came out and I tried to suggest ways they could improve it (bring back the original voice actors for Oswald and Bane for example), but the WB reps were too busy listening to the DCAU geeks practically sobbing over how wonderful it was lol. It's truly one of the worst animated movies ever made, so like a good sheep of course I'm dumb enough to own it lol

[MasterChief3624]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

Seasons 1 through 5 are not available on Blu-ray.

Okay, thank you very much Are there plans to port those seasons to Blu-ray in the future? Or will I be safe picking up the first season, knowing it will be the best release I will have for a while?

Originally Posted by TOPDAWG

its also god awful if I remember right. I remember thinking it sucked so bad when it came out years ago.

Aw That's not good to hear.

Originally Posted by blurayfriend

So true on Mystery of the Batwoman lol. A lot of people don't know this (or maybe they do) but it was created not with any intent of artistic integrity; it was a tie-in to Mattel getting the toy license from Kenner and releasing a new slate of action figures, hence why Penguin and Bane were featured prominently as the villains and why they didn't take it as an opportunity to wrap up the Batman animated universe. I've told this before but I was in a focus group for it before it came out and I tried to suggest ways they could improve it (bring back the original voice actors for Oswald and Bane for example), but the WB reps were too busy listening to the DCAU geeks practically sobbing over how wonderful it was lol. It's truly one of the worst animated movies ever made, so like a good sheep of course I'm dumb enough to own it lol

You for real?

How could the "DCAU geeks" love it if it is so bad? Isn't that the demographic that's most likely to hate the product?

Sounds like another Batman & Robin situation with regards to the toy tie-in, but I'm sure Mystery of the Batwoman, as bad as it could be, is leagues better than that trash?

I will definitely try the movie out still, but these negative impressions might knock it down a peg or two on the Priority Ladder

[grassmonk]

Originally Posted by MasterChief3624

Okay, I have searched up and down and can not find a better place to post this than this forum right here. If it belongs in the DVD forum, I'm sorry... if it belongs in the Newbie forum, I'm also sorry

...

But the thing is, I bought the majority of my DC Animated Films when I didn't know they had Blu-ray counterparts... I bought them all on DVD I wouldn't normally care too much, but after reading the Blu-ray review for Green Lantern: First Flight, I'm wondering if I should go ahead and pick up the Blu-rays for these movies I have on DVD, even though they are much more expensive.

I initially bought a bunch of the DC Universe movies on DVD also (up through Superman/Batman: Apocalypse, I think). A couple years ago WBShop had a Black Friday sale where I was able to pick up the BD versions for about $6 each. (Except for Superman/Batman: Apocalypse. For some reason that one has always stayed expensive, and I eventually found it used from Hastings for about $9 or so.) I sold my DVDs for around $4 or $5 each on eBay.

Granted, that was a lucky deal, but I've seen several times since that the BDs have dropped to around $10 on Amazon, and some have even coincided with Best Buy's Upgrade and Save sales.

Originally Posted by MasterChief3624

So, can someone tell me which of these films I have on DVD would be worth upgrading to Blu-ray for?

Wonder Woman
Green Lantern: First Flight
Batman/Superman: Public Enemies
Batman/Superman: Apocalypse
Superman: Doomsday
Batman Beyond: Return Of the Joker

Like, are there any standouts in this list that have exceptionally better picture quality on the Blu-ray version?

Personally, I have enjoyed all of the films except the Green Lantern ones, because I'm just not a Green Lantern fan. Superman: Doomsday is probably the weakest of the list above, but I still liked it.

IIRC Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker has a much better presentation on BD. The DVD is non-anamorphic widescreen and the BD is open-matte 4:3. I'm not really sure about how much of a PQ increase there is on the other films though.

Originally Posted by MasterChief3624

The hardest thing to find out is which of the above, if any, have exclusive features on the Blu-ray as opposed to the DVD... So I'm also interested in that as a reason, but mostly the video quality.

I'm pretty sure that they all have exclusive BD features, too--documentaries and (extra) episodes of the TV shows (Batman: TAS, Justice League, etc.)

Originally Posted by MasterChief3624

I hope to eventually pick up ALL the DC Animated Movies, too, so should I opt for the Blu-ray version for all of them in the future?

I'd say so. The last two releases especially have been cheap. I got Superman: Unbound for $9.99 from Best Buy on release day (with Upgrade & Save), and Justice League: Flashpoint was, I think, $13.99 (from Amazon). At some point they all drop below $10.

Originally Posted by MasterChief3624

Here is a list of other DVDs I have/want to get, but have not seen anything on Blu-ray releases for them:

Batman: Mask Of the Phantasm
Batman vs. Dracula
Scooby-Doo Meets Batman
Batman: Mystery Of the Batwoman
Batman and Mr. Freeze: Sub-Zero.

Mystery of the Batwoman is on BD. It's not the greatest, but it's enjoyable enough. Mask of the Phantasm is awesome, and Sub-Zero isn't bad, but they're not on BD as you say. If you're interested I'd at least pick up the DVD for Phantasm.

I've seen The Batman vs. Dracula once, because I picked it up for $3 at Big Lots a few years back. I don't remember hating it, but it definitely didn't leave a lasting impression on me. It's from the same continuity as The Batman series from a couple of years ago, which I watched but feel is inferior to Batman: TAS.

Originally Posted by MasterChief3624

Aaaaand... finally, I was wondering about the Justice League Animated Series... Should I opt for the more expensive option of picking up the Blu-ray of Seasons One and Two? Or should I go ahead and pick up the DVD version, which Amazon has for a little over $70, that also includes the entirety of Justice League Unlimited?

Unfortunately, you missed out on Amazon's sale about a month (two months?) ago. Justice League seasons 1 and 2 were $16 each on BD. I bought both, but IMO season 2 is the one that is really worth getting on BD over DVD if for no other reason than the BD is anamorphic widescreen (the DVD is non-anamorphic). I also liked season 2 a lot more than season 1, particularly the season 2 finale. If you want the whole series now, I would personally get the DVD set of the whole series and the season 2 BD separately, assuming price isn't an issue.

Originally Posted by MasterChief3624

...okay, and finally, any word on Batman: The Animated Series making it to Blu-ray? Or will I be safe picking that up on DVD for now?

I'd pick up the DVDs. They've been pretty cheap lately. Volumes 2-4 are currently ~$19 each on Amazon. Volume 1 is pretty steep at $30, but I think I've seen it at Walmart for $20.

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by MasterChief3624

So, can someone tell me which of these films I have on DVD would be worth upgrading to Blu-ray for?

Wonder Woman
Green Lantern: First Flight
Batman/Superman: Public Enemies
Batman/Superman: Apocalypse
Superman: Doomsday
Batman Beyond: Return Of the Joker

Like, are there any standouts in this list that have exceptionally better picture quality on the Blu-ray version?

All of them look much, much better on Blu-ray. All of these features were animated in HD and really shine on a HD display. Some of them include more extras than the DVD versions. Even Batman Beyond, made a decade ago, looks very good.

The ones you really need to see are All-Star Superman and Batman: Under the Red Hood.

[MasterChief3624]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

All of them look much, much better on Blu-ray. All of these features were animated in HD and really shine on a HD display. Some of them include more extras than the DVD versions. Even Batman Beyond, made a decade ago, looks very good.

The ones you really need to see are All-Star Superman and Batman: Under the Red Hood.

Thank you for your input

Yes, Under the Red Hood! That's another one I keep hearing I need to see, haha

I actually just got done watching Superman vs. The Elite on Netflix, thanks to grassmonk's recommendation. Wow! That was a great movie... has some surprisingly deep messages regarding who we view as heroes and whether or not death is justified in a tragedy. The animation was stellar, and I got a little choked up in the finale! That was an amazing start to my DC Animated Movie phase!

[grassmonk]

Originally Posted by MasterChief3624

I actually just got done watching Superman vs. The Elite on Netflix, thanks to grassmonk's recommendation. Wow! That was a great movie... has some surprisingly deep messages regarding who we view as heroes and whether or not death is justified in a tragedy. The animation was stellar, and I got a little choked up in the finale! That was an amazing start to my DC Animated Movie phase!

Those messages were a big part of why I didn't like Man of Steel. I'm glad you enjoyed the The Elite. I think I'll watch it again tonight.

[MasterChief3624]

Originally Posted by Nez

WB is having a sale right now.I pre-ordered it for $20.39 with Academy nominated cartoons for $4.89 and you get $5 or if you spend $25 and also free shipping.I also use Ebates to get another 3.5% off.So total came to $21.70.Batman the dark knight returns comes out Sept. 10th and Its both movies together with new interviews with the writer and actors and more.

Whoa... so many numbers, so much information, haha

I just checked the WBShop, and they seem to have all the movies I want, but do some of them some with slipcovers?

Only reason I ask is because there are two listings for two different Blu-ray titles:

Superman/Shazam: Return of Black Adam - $21.29
Superman/Shazam: Return of Black Adam - $15

Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker - $14.29
Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker - $14.99

There is also a couple dollar difference between two listings of that upcoming DC villain documentary, but I noticed one of them says "Double BD Case" and the other says "Blue BD Case." or something...

Anyone know what's up with those differences above? I switched between tabs on the info things, and couldn't see anything different...

Originally Posted by blu-ray_girl_fan

As others have said, check WBShop.com in addition to Amazon for the best prices.

I would keep the DVDs for some of the earlier releases since Warner hadn't started releasing BD/DVD combos yet.

Also, check out the threads in my signature for exclusives. Both Best Buy and Target have sold exclusives for these movies.

I will keep an eye on Amazon and WBShop

Hm... that's a good point. Even though I don't use DVDs at all anymore (unless it's something I have exclusively on DVD), there's always that chance that my PS3 will decide to be a dingdong I didn't exchange my Wonder Woman and Green Lantern: First Flight DVDs, but I decided to give them to my mom! So they're still within a 1 mile radius from me. Guess I can't complain

I appreciate your help on the exclusives part, but I think from now on, unless it's a movie I adore to the brim, I will just stick to the regular run-of-the-mill release Especially with these DC movies, I am already taking a leap of faith buying the Blu-rays, I don't want to add the decision-making of exclusives into that

Originally Posted by grassmonk

Those messages were a big part of why I didn't like Man of Steel. I'm glad you enjoyed the The Elite. I think I'll watch it again tonight.

Ah... SPOILERS FOR MAN OF STEEL -

[Show spoiler]When I saw Man of Steel, I didn't know that Superman had that rule. I thought that was always Batman's thing... so I wasn't nearly as offended by Superman's decision to take Zod's life as some fans were. After seeing Superman vs The Elite, though, I can understand the frustrations. That movie really put under a close light that barrier of morality, and I understand it much greater than before.

Buuut... I heard that Man of Steel is not even the first time Superman has decided to kill. There are several storylines where he has done it, so I don't quite understand the immense outcry towards Man of Steel.

When I see Man of Steel again, though, that scene will have a much greater impact on me. See, when I was watching it, I thought, "Well... he has to save that family, and if he doesn't kill Zod now, Zod may come back for revenge ten-fold!" But now I realize in Superman's world, it isn't that easy.

I think it will be interesting to see how the Superman/Batman movie tackles that controversy. I'm pretty sure that will be a big point of contention between the two, the fact that Batman has NOT killed anybody, and Superman HAS killed somebody... unless they try to make Batman have a secret backstory or something... but I think it will be interesting if they make Batman have a cocky attitude and superiority complex over Superman with regards to that "no death" thing

And if I were the writer, I would make it so that Batman and Superman eventually become so close, that Batman almost DOES kill the person responsible for almost killing Superman, assuming they put Superman in danger that is

Sorry you didn't like Man of Steel, though Honestly, I thought it was incredible, and a near-perfect superhero film. And, if it weren't for Man of Steel, I might not have gotten Injustice, and that means I wouldn't have started on this DC kick, which also means I would have never even GLANCED at Superman vs. The Elite! So there's a good side to Man of Steel, too!

[batfan08]

As far as upgrading to Blu-Ray goes, another thing you might want to look into are trade-ins. Best Buy just finished up theirs today, but they run an "upgrade and save" promo pretty often, in which every DVD turned in gets you a $5 off coupon for any Blu-Ray $9.99 and up, and I'm pretty sure that the WBshop has a similar "DVD2Blu" service, as well, in which they give you credits toward Blu-Rays that will partially (or fully, depending on how much you spent) compensate you for the DVDs and save you money on the Blu-Rays.

As far as the movies go, I'd recommend it. They get cheaper all the time, and there are sales quite often, so, providing you could get good deals on them, and, maybe even trade in some DVDs toward them, why not go for the better quality version, right?

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by MasterChief3624

I just checked the WBShop, and they seem to have all the movies I want, but do some of them some with slipcovers?

Only reason I ask is because there are two listings for two different Blu-ray titles:

Superman/Shazam: Return of Black Adam - $21.29
Superman/Shazam: Return of Black Adam - $15

Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker - $14.29
Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker - $14.99

There is also a couple dollar difference between two listings of that upcoming DC villain documentary, but I noticed one of them says "Double BD Case" and the other says "Blue BD Case." or something...

If slipcovers are important to you, WBShop is not the place to get them. The slipcover for Superman/Shazam was very limited and goes for big prices on the used market. I don't know the differences between the two Shazam listings, there are no alternative editions as far as I know. WB did reissue Batman Beyond with a DVD version, so the cheaper one has both a BD and DVD.

[grassmonk]

Originally Posted by MasterChief3624

Ah... SPOILERS FOR MAN OF STEEL -

[Show spoiler]When I saw Man of Steel, I didn't know that Superman had that rule. I thought that was always Batman's thing... so I wasn't nearly as offended by Superman's decision to take Zod's life as some fans were. After seeing Superman vs The Elite, though, I can understand the frustrations. That movie really put under a close light that barrier of morality, and I understand it much greater than before.

Buuut... I heard that Man of Steel is not even the first time Superman has decided to kill. There are several storylines where he has done it, so I don't quite understand the immense outcry towards Man of Steel.

When I see Man of Steel again, though, that scene will have a much greater impact on me. See, when I was watching it, I thought, "Well... he has to save that family, and if he doesn't kill Zod now, Zod may come back for revenge ten-fold!" But now I realize in Superman's world, it isn't that easy.

Sorry you didn't like Man of Steel, though Honestly, I thought it was incredible, and a near-perfect superhero film. And, if it weren't for Man of Steel, I might not have gotten Injustice, and that means I wouldn't have started on this DC kick, which also means I would have never even GLANCED at Superman vs. The Elite! So there's a good side to Man of Steel, too!

I don't want to derail too much, but I'll talk a little bit about my feelings on Man of Steel. Before I go any further, let me clarify that I've never been really into comic books so the vast majority of my superhero experience comes from TV/movies, and except for Superman 1-4, I didn't even really start watching any superhero shows (even the cartoons everyone watches as a kid) until I was in my early 20s. I've read very little of the source material that a lot of these adaptations come from. Hopefully that lends some perspective on where I'm coming from.

Visually, I thought Man of Steel was spectacular. Having seen Watchmen and 300 and not being very enthused by the style, I was honestly a bit worried about Superman. But I'm glad I wasn't disappointed in that regard. The opening sequence on Krypton was really great, and I really liked the version of Lois Lane. I started to get worried when

[Show spoiler]Johnathan Kent answered, "Maybe," when Clark asked if he should have let the people on the bus die. That's just not the Johnathan Kent I know from Superman: The Movie, Smallville, or Lois & Clark. A big part of why Superman is so good is because he had good parents that taught him good values and respect for life. When that ideal was (IMO) thrown out the window early on in Man of Steel, my heart sank.

(I have kids, and I know that as a parent it's sometimes tough to give them answers to difficult questions, but--and I recognize that Superman is a fantasy world--that's not a difficult question for Johnathan Kent to answer. Part of why I love Superman is even though he's not real, his ideals give us all something to strive for.)

It got worse when Clark didn't save Johnathan from the tornado. I understand the argument that Clark was trying to show that he trusted his father about not exposing himself, but his father was wrong. Smallville (the show) was not perfect, but its Johnathan Kent sure was a much better portrayal.

Superman is also a protector. To tell everyone in Smallville to get inside the buildings and then proceed to level everything inside in the fight with the Kryptonians instead of taking the fight elsewhere isn't protecting. Leveling Metropolis isn't either. Killing Zod was just awful. Superman is incredibly powerful, and incredibly good. He could have done something else. (Except that Johnathan Kent told him that maybe it was okay to let people die. I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure all of the negative reviews I have read of Man of Steel have focused on the mass destruction in Smallville and Metropolis, and killing Zod. I haven't read anyone that mentioned the "maybe" line from Johnathan, but I really feel like that's one of the roots of the problem.)

Again, my feelings on that are largely influenced by Superman vs. The Elite. I'm not ashamed to say I teared up a little when Lois found the note that said, "Always believe."

There's also a Justice League episode (a two-parter in season 2, I think) that explores an alternate universe where Superman kills Lex Luthor, the fallout from that, and how it effects not just Superman but the Justice League as a whole. For me it was another powerful example of why Superman has his rules and has to live by them.

Sorry, I've probably rambled enough for now. I get really passionate about this subject and don't usually know when to stop. But I'm glad it got you into the wider DC universe.

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread.